NC400 anyone bridging it yet?

wisnon · « **Reply #60 on:** 10 Sep 2012, 09:43 pm »

Quote from: playntheblues on 10 Sep 2012, 05:02 pm

Well my bridged monos ship today from Houston to Dallas so they should be her in a couple of days. I have not heard so many good things about an amp (from people who are not fans of class D no less) in a long long time. The guy that built my amps is not a big fan of class D, when he first got all four modules in the chassis he tested each of them to make sure all was well. He did this by going of to a friends, a well known Class D designer. He told me their mouths dropped and they could not believe how good the NCOREs sounded. Last night they repeated this process with the amps bridged, using Revel speakers the model just under the top of the line. Both thought the improvement by bridging them was out of this world. My guy told me it was one of the best amps he has every heard, this is from a tube guy. So I asked, well does that put them in the top 5 or top 10? He responded one of the top three amps he has every heard! No I didn't ask what the other two amps were as it didn't matter, he said the highs where the best he every heard. I can't take it, can't wait till they get here. More to come.
Guy

Wow!

cab · « **Reply #61 on:** 10 Sep 2012, 10:06 pm »

Are you using one or two power supplies per amp module?

Kind of weird how some people who have heard the bridged version have been so positive, while one other was rather negative...

playntheblues · « **Reply #62 on:** 10 Sep 2012, 10:55 pm »

one power supply for each module, so two for each bridged amp. My guy tried it with rca to balanced with adapters and it was his opinion that using the NCORES with singled ended converted to balanced is missing the boat. All be it, they sounded very good, he said to his ears they sounded much much better when put in a truly balanced system. So I ordered a new balanced Lampizator about two weeks ago.

Good news is I may have a good deal for someone looking for a single ended 4.5 Lampizator, with remote volume.

cab · « **Reply #63 on:** 10 Sep 2012, 11:06 pm »

Thanks for the answer....

Wonder how they would sound bridged with one smps per two amp modules???? Hmmm, might have to give that a try at some point....

dan92075 · « **Reply #64 on:** 18 Sep 2012, 07:01 am »

Any news on the bridged ncore yet?

playntheblues · « **Reply #65 on:** 18 Sep 2012, 12:33 pm »

Hi guys just a short note. The bridged Ncore's got here on Saturday. I have had the amps on since they got here but really have not sat down and listened closely. I can tell that they do a very good job from top to bottom though. I have read so much hype on this amp it will be hard for it to measure up LOL. Right now I am using 9 dollar adapter wires from Guitar center as my balance pre dac has not arrived, if just shipped yesterday (Monday). The Guitar center adapter wires have a plastic RCA connection and a very cheap balanced connection on the other end. For what it is worth the system is dead quite.

When the balanced pre dac arrives I will spend some serious time with the amp's. I would like to think with the Berning ZH270 and the Raven 6550 tube mono blocks that I had very nice amplification to begin with. I can tell already the NCORE's are better, surprisingly there is a lot more information (where did that come from

). I have not heard the 200 watt version so I cannot compare to the bridged sound. What I will say much like the bridged Spectrons which where 1800 watts per side into an 8 ohm speaker, the 800 watts of the NCORE like the Spectrons is not ball grabbing, earth moving or room shaking. It is much like a Cadillac, meaning smooth power and lots of head room. I guess one must keep in mind that the difference between 200 and 800 watts is only 6db, and the difference between 200 and 1800 watts is only about 10 db. So IMHO you are not going after BIG power for more decibels, you are doing it for head room, lower distortion etc. More to come when the balanced DAC/PRE arrives in about 10 days

Guy

Atlplasma · « **Reply #66 on:** 18 Sep 2012, 01:54 pm »

Hi Guy:

If possible, can you post some pictures? I'd like to see how the power supplies are configured if possible.

fsimms · « **Reply #67 on:** 18 Sep 2012, 03:15 pm »

Thanks for the preliminary observations! Very interesting!

I am looking forward to your more detailed review.

Bob

jonbee · « **Reply #68 on:** 18 Sep 2012, 03:28 pm »

Quote from: playntheblues on 18 Sep 2012, 12:33 pm

I can tell already the NCORE's are better, surprisingly there is a lot more information (where did that come from ).

Last night I listened to a lot of different familiar cuts, and it is so much easier to hear deeply into the fabric of the music to hear all the minute details- it is like a new, cleaner re-mastering of the recordings. I'm loving it.

dan92075 · « **Reply #69 on:** 19 Sep 2012, 05:17 am »

Thanks Guy for the quick update!

Also, are those Spectron3 Mk2 in bridged mode you are comparing to?
Would also be very interested if you could compare the bridged Ncore to bridged Spectron. . .

cab · « **Reply #70 on:** 19 Sep 2012, 12:46 pm »

Quote from: jonbee on 18 Sep 2012, 03:28 pm

Last night I listened to a lot of different familiar cuts, and it is so much easier to hear deeply into the fabric of the music to hear all the minute details- it is like a new, cleaner re-mastering of the recordings. I'm loving it.

No issues with "smear", shallow/narrow soundstage, or with the high end?

jonbee · « **Reply #71 on:** 19 Sep 2012, 02:13 pm »

Quote from: cab on 19 Sep 2012, 12:46 pm

No issues with "smear", shallow/narrow soundstage, or with the high end?

Focus and detail retrieval is as good or better than any I've heard. The only amp with a better soundstage I've heard is the 10 WPC Shindo Cortese.
Those who have heard the NC400 in my system agree on those points. These areas, plus the bass control, are the strong points of the amp, IMO.
The high end is the only area that I think may be problematical for some. Cymbals, etc. are very clean and well defined, with very nice, smooth "tails", but have less subjective weight than other amps. If a speaker has been designed around other amps that have more energy on top, the NC400 may seem recessed on top.
With my RAAL tweeters the highs are very clean, clear and well balanced, but those who like more bite on the top end might not find this aspect to their liking.
Initially my new amp was a bit too forward on the upper mids, but that has subsided pretty notably.
Net, I'm delighted with the sound. It is closer to an "invisible" amp than anything I'd care to pay for. My modded PS Audio GCC-500 (Icepower) amp, which I loved, sounded a bit muffled by comparison, so for me the NC400 is a real step forward at the price point. YMMV.

playntheblues · « **Reply #72 on:** 19 Sep 2012, 02:43 pm »

I have 9 neo8 panels per line array and love the top end. My builder said it was the best top end he has ever heard. So once again it is all about the match ups. There is no perfect amp, speaker, DAC etc. I don't mind having folks over to hear but you really will not know until you hear it in your system at your home. Some folks love NCORE others not so much.

dan92075 · « **Reply #73 on:** 19 Sep 2012, 09:07 pm »

jonbee - it wasn't clear - are you doing bridged too?

dan92075 · « **Reply #74 on:** 19 Sep 2012, 09:15 pm »

Guy - 2 questions:
1) would love to hear how it compares to the Spectron bridged

2) did your builder on the bridged modules do level matching (I think I remember seeing a post where one could adjust output level with a resistor) . The reason I ask is to get optimum cancellation I would expect the levels should be matched between the two.
I see the spec on the NC400 calls out for a +/-.5dB difference in gain. Just from some quick calculations if one amp was at -.5dB and the other was at .5dB this would limit cancellation (just because of levels) to 19dB. Perhaps there are other issues too, do we require phase lock between the two units for optimum cancellation - I don't know. . . anyways thats why I am just wondering if there was anything special your builder did. . .

mgalusha · « **Reply #75 on:** 19 Sep 2012, 10:46 pm »

Quote from: dan92075 on 19 Sep 2012, 09:15 pm

2) did your builder on the bridged modules do level matching (I think I remember seeing a post where one could adjust output level with a resistor) . The reason I ask is to get optimum cancellation I would expect the levels should be matched between the two.
I see the spec on the NC400 calls out for a +/-.5dB difference in gain. Just from some quick calculations if one amp was at -.5dB and the other was at .5dB this would limit cancellation (just because of levels) to 19dB. Perhaps there are other issues too, do we require phase lock between the two units for optimum cancellation - I don't know. . . anyways thats why I am just wondering if there was anything special your builder did. . .

FWIW, I've measured about a dozen NC400's, while I didn't record the gain on them, all were really close in gain, way less than .5dB. If I had to guess I'd say they were all within .05dB of each other in regards to gain.

playntheblues · « **Reply #76 on:** 19 Sep 2012, 11:22 pm »

Dan you make my point, this is why I did not build them

. Uriah Dailey a well known and respected member of the DIY Community was my builder. Uriah also does a lot of OEM work, this is how he makes his living. I know he tested each unit thoroughly so he wouldn't have any issues down the road. But that is as far as I know, you can get him on the DIY board.

As far as Spectron Vs NCORE goes I think Spectron was on the fore front. John Ulrich was working on digital when he and Arnie owned Infinity speakers. I believe Bruno has taken it to a new lenel, he has really really done a great job with his modules

.

I have switched a lot of gear to look for some better, I am getting to the point where switching will only get me different. Not saying I have the best but am saying I have some of the very best for my room and my ears, can I hear an amen?

dan92075 · « **Reply #77 on:** 21 Sep 2012, 04:28 pm »

Guy,

Thats great to hear that your bridged Ncore sounds so good!

Can you share in what areas do you feel your bridged Ncore excels in? Compared to your bridged Spectron or any other amps?

Also can you tell us what kind of Spectron you have?

Sorry for all the questions but I am planning on upgrading my amps soon and these are both on my list. . . so any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

jonbee · « **Reply #78 on:** 21 Sep 2012, 05:25 pm »

Quote from: dan92075 on 19 Sep 2012, 09:07 pm

jonbee - it wasn't clear - are you doing bridged too?

Sorry, not bridged. Just dual mono, one module per channel.

playntheblues · « **Reply #79 on:** 23 Sep 2012, 05:31 pm »

Hey Dan, pm me your number if you would like to chat. Quite frankly since I installed my Lampizator a year and a half ago I have quit listening so critically. And what I hear in my house matched with my other gear is not going to be what you hear. My short answer would be the bridged Ncore amps are the most transparent and musical combo (in my set up). Meaning you can find (I am guessing here) a more transparent amp and you can find a more musical amp but one at the expense of the other. The Ncore gives you both, you can find an amp that excels at one or the other better but not both combined, does that make sense? And these amps do sound live like you are at the event