[BruceSB]

Does anyone have a Soundsmith SG-810 Pre Amp/Strain Gauge Amp?
I am particularly interested in what you think of the preamp part.
How does it compare to a "normal" preamp?
Any additional thoughts or comments would be welcome.
Thanks

[BruceSB]

A bit of an update on this one.
I am interested in a soundsmith straingauge as part of my upgrade program, I am also interested in a new preamp as part of that same program.
I wondered about combining the two in the SG-810.
Hence this post.
As you can see no one responded!
I guess that's because no one has the SG-810, and, I will say its pretty expensive.
Well, I emailed soundsmith and had a loverly telephone conversation with Peter Ledermann, and what a delightful and gracious man he is.
Yes, he called me on the other side of the earth (Melbourne)!
Amongst other things he told me about his SG-810 customers, some of whom have ultra expensive pre-amps, finding that the SG-810 sounds way better!
There's the answer to the question.
There's a comment about Peter and his company.

[rodge827]

BruceSB,

Here is a thread I found over on the Audiogon Forums about the Straingauge SG-200.
Perhaps someone there could offer some insight on the SG-810?

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1339746713&&&/Soundsmith-Straingauge-SG-200-cartridge-

Hope this helps,

Chris

[neobop]

Hi BruceSB,
Have you heard a strain gauge cart/preamp?  Is this something you want to try or have you decided a strain gauge is for you?  Do you already have a new amp? 

For those unfamiliar with the different Soundsmith models, the 810 is the TOTL with a full function preamp.
http://www.sound-smith.com/cartridges/sg.html

I suspect the preamp/amp interface is subject to synergy, like any other amp and preamp. Did Peter mention  particular amps used successfully?  You could always use it as a phono preamp only.  What a delightful quandary.  Please let us know how this comes out and what you think.
neo

[vinyl_guy]

Woodsyi has a strain guage. Send him a PM and he will be glad to give you his impressions. I have heardhis system several times including the strain guage and comparing it to a Koetsu. My (our) conclusion was that it depended on the recording whether we liked one set up or the other.

[/mp]

Do the different strain gauge pre-amps sound different or do they just add functionality (e.g. volume control, multiple inputs)?

Also, (tangential but not worth starting new thread) are the soundsmith strain gauge cartridges so sensitive to setup they benefit from re-dialing in VTA for different record thicknesses? Is it more appropriate to ask about the different styli profiles then strain gauge carts vs. other cart designs?

/mp

[neobop]

Do the different strain gauge pre-amps sound different or do they just add functionality (e.g. volume control, multiple inputs)?

Also, (tangential but not worth starting new thread) are the soundsmith strain gauge cartridges so sensitive to setup they benefit from re-dialing in VTA for different record thicknesses? Is it more appropriate to ask about the different styli profiles then strain gauge carts vs. other cart designs?

/mp

According to their web site, the phono sections sound the same, but differ in features.

Even though SG has no electrical generator, it's still physically tracing the groove.  I don't have one of these, so I won't speculate on details.

[Retipper]

I received an Email suggsting I respond to thsi thread - I was a bit misquoted regardign the SG-810 - what I did say was that thiose who had bought it were surprised to find that its line level section was as good or in some cases, better than their high end preamps. That was my experience with pulic reports. Regarding the Strain gauge.....

While I appreciate deeply the pro's and cons of varied designs, which are far less varied than the listening  preferences of audiophiles, those that indicate that one MUST listen to a particular product at length to create a long term opinion are correct in my experience.

One experience I had with England in the home of a well known audiophile, engineer and reviewer who initially very much disliked the SG in his system, was monumental. After disliking it very much after 120 seconds, he suggested an experiment, likely to prove to me how bad the Strain Gauge is. We would play a CD and LP of the exact same classical performance, and compare. After 5 minutes of the CD, we played the Strain Gauge. As long as I live, I will never forget the confused expression on his face, as he then hurriedly transferred the LP to his new $8K magnetic "favorite" cartridge on his adjacent table, only to have the notes sound as if they were being ground out between some Metal gears. He turned to me and apologized, saying that if "anyone had told him that after 40 years of listening to magnetic cartridges, he had become biased to where he could not hear something so much better, he would have thought they didn't know what they were talking about".   
This experience proved to me once again that we do have a long term acoustic memory of a sort - as well as a bias -  sometimes so much so that it makes an unbiased hearing of something different very difficult, if not impossible.

While I would never dispute someone preferences, the one time comment I have seen on another site about "lack of harmonics" with the SG implies technical inaccuracy in so far as tracing what is in the groove. With the levels of detail the SG is capable of, I would rather suggest that the non-linearity due to poor groove tracing of most magnetic cartridges CREATES harmonics, much like the non-linearity of tube gear. I have measured it - which is a simple task. If someone claimed that, I would agree - the SG reveals, but does not add. Being capable of reproducing a square wave from a record with little ringing or roll is clear evidence of that. The crescendos re-creation with no congestion is also evidence of that - and the physics support its real tracking capability. It is everyone's cup of tea?? Absolutely not. But those who have purchased it have largely indicated to me that "the musicians have finally arrived in their listening rooms." That makes my day every time I receive such an Email. Nothing is perfect. But the SG is unique.

Peter Ledermann/Soundsmith

[Scottdazzle]

I have had the opportunity to listen to the Soundsmith strain gauge several times and have concluded that it is the most neutral phono cartridge/preamp combination I have head the privilege to hear.  Neutral in this case is high praise. It seemed to my ears to lack any of the additions or subtractions of the multitude of cartridges I have listened to in my life.  In Woodsyi's system, it lacked some of the body and color of the Koetsu, but I felt it was truer to the source.

If I had the resources, I would be delighted to own this cartridge. 

[BruceSB]

My apologies for slightly misquoting Peter.
However, during and after the conversation, I was left with the strong impression that the SG-810 did sound substantially better than some of his customer's very expensive pre amps.
Peter did not mention any brand names, and, actually told me that he does not want to say unkind things about anyone else's products.
As I say that was the impression that I got from the conversation, Peter was more subdued in his words but there was a strong element of intense belief in the quality of his product that came down the telephone line then, and also shows in his post above. And, this is how it should be, if a manufacture does not believe in his product then something is seriously wrong!
As for me, as I consider my next upgrade, its the SG-810 preamp or the sanders preamp and the SG-200. The sanders preamp really comes because I am looking at the sanders ESL Mk II specialist power amplifier to drive my full range electrostatic speakers. The "return and get your money back if you don't like it" policy from sanders seems like an offer that just can't go wrong.
It is also good to see that Peter is active on this forum.
Having such contributers makes this such a great place to learn lots of new things.
Also I can't help but think that if I am wondering about how good the preamp part of the SG-810 sounds, then there must be other people asking the same question.
Thank you for correcting my excessive enthusiasm and thank you for the information that you shared.
Bruce

[neobop]

Fascinating stuff.  I was looking through the specs to find specifics like eff tip mass and freq response error due to RIAA curve being built in on LPs. I didn't find exactly that, but response spec is DC to 50K. 70K is claimed for some tips?  so eff tip mass is necessarily extremely low.  As Dlaloum showed us, eff tip mass is more or less = to high freq (cantilever) resonance. There is a tiny freq resp error, but that wouldn't be audible compared to phase deviation.  Spec for phase linearity is < 10% max deviation 20Hz to 20K.  Phase non-linearity is largely responsible for the character of some carts being forward or distant etc. It often follows freq response deviations. High freq resonance causes a 180 degree phase shift that has implications more than an octave on either side of the resonance.  If high frequency resonance is 50K or higher, you'll lose a lot of colorations.
http://www.sound-smith.com/cartridges/straingauge.html

I read most of the Audigon thread linked to above.  You have a bunch of seasoned audiophiles that don't have much to offer, concerning this. Except that is, the colorations they love, and have come to expect. There was talk of loss of low level harmonics in some classical music. IMO this is prob just another example of beloved colorations, but I don't have a SG. It's ironic that guys with a quarter million or more tied up in stereo equipment talk about price, but they have a lot invested.
Imo this guy is a most credable reviewer:
http://www.sound-smith.com/cartridges/TAS_Strain_Gauge.pdf

It's been a couple of yrs since I read this - High freq res is as high as 170K ??
Moderate (low) mass arm prob recommended.

 

[Retipper]

Some folks above have asked some questions I didn't answer - Yes, it is a very revealing cart - but to respond about the criticality of SRA with varied recordings; that cant be answered as one response for every person. Some owners tell me that they can hear the SRA differences easily, others not. Some styli will be more sensitive to it, some will not (OCL vs CL vs Elliptical...) as will the top end of your system, and your hearing, etc....

All the SG models are identical in terms of sonics;  we recently discontinued selling the top models through distribution channels (due to cost of production) and they are only  available directly from us - the SG-810, 610, 600, 410, & 400. The upper models both offer balanced and unbalanced outputs, remote control, input switching, selection of wood types, dispays for the cartrdige susch as real time force-per-groove-wall, record warp disply and tracking force in grams. All models have defeatable auto-mute. We DID very recently add a NEW model - the SG-210  - which features a volume control, and TWO sets of outputs - fixed and a plus 10 dB variable, so those who want to drive their amplifers directly from the SG preamp can now do so with the SG-210. The fixed outputs allow recording while listening (or not) - as the volume settings do not affect the fixed outputs/recording..... 

The SG cartridges allow user replaceable styli, but they are fitted to each cartridge at the factory for optimized performance.

The Soundsmith Strain Gauge is a very unique sounding cartridge. Musicians have utterred upon first hearing it "It sounds like I am in the studio, listening to the master recording!"....others have said - "the vinyl is gone....what happened??".....but a small percentage just don't care for it. It would be strange indeed if everyone loved it - BECAUSE it is so different. Some prefer magnetics...and a few days each month....so do I.  Generally, the Hyperion !

Peter Ledermann/Soundsmith

[woodsyi]

I have my SG400 fed into my preamp but I can remove the preamp from the chain and see how it works as a preamp on it's own.  It has manual volume control and I should be able to match the level to see how they compare.  I have had my SG 400 for awhile and it always seemed hot and analytical compared to my magnetic pick up but things have evened out a lot more now that I have replaced the silver interconnects with WyWire Gold for both phono cable out of the tonearm and the IC between the pre and SG amp.   I am still in the breaking in stage for the cables but SG is kicking some butt right now. 

[J-Pak]

Thanks for the reply Peter. How does the SG-810 compare to your Sussurro Paua?