[ThomasKott]

I've had my speakers for probably 6 months and am quite pleased with the quality.  I have tried to load photos, I'm hoping they come through in the gallery.  If they don't, I'll try again!

If you're looking for a basic stand that is big enough to hold the center channel, I use the Sonax stand and it fits the center channel perfectly.

Now, I have a question for the audiophiles on this list.

Background - My setup:
* Pioneer Elite SC-07 Receiver
* Oppo 83 Blu-Ray/SACD/DVD-Audio Player
* Salk HT2-TL's

I am a big fan of SACD's, but I'm looking into potentially spending $3,500 on a vinyl setup (VPI Classic 1, Basic Orton MM Cartridge, and Music Surroundings Phenomena II Phono Preamp).  My question to the list is....  What would anyone suggest as another way to spend the $3,500 to best improve my setup?  Specifically, I don't understand digital music.  What would be a good digital setup if I chose to move in that direction vs vinyl?

Any input is very much appreciated!
Mark 

 

[ThomasKott]

I should clarify.  When I say digital, I'm referring to Hi Resolution downloads.  I don't really understand DAC's, etc.

[bryede]

If you're just getting started with vinyl, I'd start simple and upgrade if the bug bites you.

The Phonomena II is what I use, and I think it's excellent. I also think a cartridge like the Ortofon 2M Blue is an excellent starter. I think a table in the $800-1200 range would be a good match and would free up some funds for the record collection and an RCM like the VPI 16.5 or Nitty Gritty 1.5. You'd be surprised how much accessories for the vinyl hobby can run.

[vintagebob]

Wait.  That setup sounds familiar for some reason...oh yeah, I had the same setup (SC-05 instead of SC-07) when I started, including the HT2-TLs.  I thought that multi-channel would be the way to go so I bought the HT2-Center and HT-1s for surrounds (If I did it over I would get the SongSurround 1s).  Great HT/Multi-channel system that I seldom use for multi-channel music anymore.  A good 2-channel system is just too enaging now.

I would wade through the Owner's Impressions thread and see what everyone else has done.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=68360.0

The SC-05/SC-07 is great for movies, etc. but a reasonable DAC/Preamp/Amp setup will be much better.  Audigon can be your friend by letting you pick-up used equipment at a discount. 

Even a better amp for 2-channel playback will help, since the SC05/SC07 has a preamp out.

I have a Rega P3-24 turntable with a Rega Exact cartridge for playing my girlfriend's classical albums but I still prefer my digital setup for ease of use and overall sound quality.  YMMV

Hint:  You can see what other folks have for systems by clicking "Systems" under their name.

[Nuance]

At the risk of getting smacked down, I'm going to say this: Vinyl is dead, digital is the new king.  By digital I mean a music streaming device fed into a DAC.  I highly recommend something like a Squeezebox Touch run into a really nice DAC (something from AVA, PS Audio, Eastern Electric, Bryston etc) fed into a 2-channel preamp.  For $3500 you could have a very nice "disc-less" system, all available at your fingertips and without having to get up out of your listening seat to put on a new record or CD.  All you need is a PC to run the stream software in the background.  Even better, Jim's SalkStream Player doesn't need a PC to actually be running for the device to work, and it'll probably sound better than the Squeezebox or Sonos devies too, albeit at a higher cost. 

My apologies to those who love their Vinyl, but it's old tech and it sounds like it too.  I'll also say that I think "hi-res" is hype and doesn't sound much different.

[vintagebob]

Dang Nuance.  Don't stand so close to me when you say those things.   

 

[fsimms]

This is the first time in 65 years that I have said this aloud.  Digital is better, but I still prefer to listen to vinyl if given a choice.  Somehow the music from my vinyl rig just moves me more.   

Classical music is the only type of music that I would reach for the CD copy before the vinyl record.

Bob

[UltraDrew]

Hi Mark,

I have HT2-TLs and an Oppo BDP-83.  I also have a vinyl setup with a Origin Live table and a PS Audio GCPH, and while I really love my vinyl, I have to say records get maybe about 10% of the total play time in my system now.  About a year and a half ago I got a Sonos player, a DAC, and set up a pretty inexpensive NAS box (D-link DNS-323) and haven't looked back.  As far as convenience and sound quality goes, in my opinion, lossless digital music can't be beat.  And in my opinion, "high res" audio is unnecessary.  As hard as I've tried, I can't hear any difference.  So... essentially, I second what Nuance said. 

**Not to go off topic or start any arguments, but I stumbled across this article the other day regarding hi-res audio. (http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html) ...if you're interested.

So I highly recommend a streaming digital audio setup if it's feasible for your system.  But, with that said, I think the single greatest upgrade I've made recently was changing my amp.  I just changed from an Emotiva UPA-2 to a Wyred 4 Sound ST-500.  I haven't heard an SC-07, but the Wyred amp made a huge difference for me.  It made my already great speakers sound even better across all of my sources, both analog AND digital!

Drew

[Gzerro]

Dang Nuance.  Don't stand so close to me when you say those things.   

 

+1

But I would have to agree with Nuance that I would invest in a good digital streaming system before vinyl nowadays. Being able to sit on the couch with access to my entire music library, Pandora, thousands of radio stations, etc. all controlled with an iDevice or Android phone is just too convenient.

I am currently using Sonos players which I really like for their appliance like reliability, super easy multi-room wireless setup and control with iPad. The only downside is lack of support for hi-rez files, and it probably lacks a bit in quality relative to something like the Salk Streamer with a good DAC. I store my files on a Synology NAS (Network Attached Storage) so I don't need to have a PC running when listening to music. It also makes a great backup device for my PCs at the same time.

I also agree with Nuance that Hi-Rez doesn't seem to make much difference, at least with Songtowers. I bought a couple Hi-Rez downloads to compare with CD and to be honest would never be able to pick one from the other, much less decide which one is "better". The quality of the recording is much more important.

All that said, I still love listening to Vinyl when I get the opportunity. I am just getting back into it again with a VPI Scout table I happened upon for a good price used.

[grantc79]

Honestly,

I wouldn't consider vinyl.

What I would HIGHLY recommend is getting a very cheap HTPC setup (virtually any computer will do) and run an HDMI cable from that into your Pioneer receiver.

Download yourself a bunch of flac files and play them through winamp or whatever else on your HTPC and let your Pioneer's DAC decode them.

I have had the 2,000 dollar Logitech Transporter and now with that simple setup which you can have for under 400 bucks I can't tell a bit of difference.

Spend the rest of your cash on room treatments and better amps

[vortrex]

digital if you are too lazy to pull yourself from the sofa to change records and maintain the media.

vinyl if you want the best possible sound.

if done right, a vinyl rig is going to cost more than a digital rig.

[NIGHTFALL1970]

Mark,
nice speakers!  I would say it depends on how much you like vinyl.  I like having a large album cover with cool artwork.  There is something nostalgic about vinyl.  You can get a Rega Rp1 for about 400 and change.  You can buy new sealed 180 gr LPs that don't have any scratches of fingerprints on them.  Or, you can take your chances and look for used LPs on eBay or Amazon at a bargain.  I don't know what "era" you would be looking for,  but there are a lot more choices now in 2012 than there was in the late 1980s thru the early 1990s.
If digital is more appealing to you then check out the great advice on this forum.  I am not putting anyone down who likes "disc-less" music, and if that is your thing then more power to you.  I grew up in the 70s and 80s and like to collect albums, comics and magazines, so I like to have a "physical" media.  Let us know what you end up with.

[Nuance]

digital if you are too lazy to pull yourself from the sofa to change records and maintain the media.

Digital if you want the best possible sound.

I fixed it for you.

[roscoeiii]

digital if you are too lazy to pull yourself from the sofa to change records and maintain the media.

vinyl if you want the best possible sound.

if done right, a vinyl rig is going to cost more than a digital rig.

+1 to all that vortrex said, IME. Again, IME.

I have no regrets from pulling money out of my digital set-up and putting it into a vinyl rig.

In addition to the table you mentioned, I would look into the Well Tempered tables and Townshend tables. You will find a thread here where I compare the two excellent tables:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=105495.0

IIRC, Vortrex should shortly be able to comment on the differences he hears between the Amadeus and the VPI Classic (looking forward to those). 

Vinyl is a good deal tweaky than digital, and is far from plug-and-play generally. But when dialed in, wow! And then there are the joys of crate digging. Finding a new band you love but had never heard of from the $1 bin. Coming across a pristine first pressing copy of Back In Black or Who's Next. All of this has happened in the past week and helped make an otherwise awful week more bearable.

[vortrex]

roscoeiii is correct.  I have a Classic 1 and tonight I am receiving a Well Tempered Amadeus.  I probably won't be able to get it setup until the weekend though.  I currently am using SongTowers but have an upgrade arriving in the near future that would be more on par with the HT2-TL's.

[funkmonkey]

Where is your music right now?  CD's? LP's? cassette? 8-track?

As much money as I have spent on audio equipment (plenty), I have spent more on the the music itself.  What I am getting at is that if you already have an extensive vinyl collection, then a rig to suit that would make the most sense (to me).  If you have a bunch of CDs, then your money would be best spent getting into computer audio.  Someone suggested plugging a HTPC into your Pioneer, that is a good suggestion.  I will go even one better...  your SC-07 is already network capable, and you already have a computer (you posted on the internet, so I figure that is a fairly safe bet), most people have a router as well, so I would suggest that you run an ethernet cable to your receiver, download some type of free music server for your existing computer (your on your own for what would work best with your SC-07), get some help with the set-up if you need it (it's really not that hard when you apply yourself to it), and try it out.  If you like the convenience, then learn more and go the DAC/pre-amp/power-amp route, and start ripping the CDs that you already own.
   If your music is mostly on cassete, go directly to computer audio, do not pass Go, and do not collect $200!   
   If you are still using 8-track tapes, save your money for leisure suit dry-cleaning bills! 

While Vinyl is not quite "dead," there is something tactile and rewarding about putting a record on the turntable, and then getting up to flip the record to listen to side two.  Personally, I like to be able to browse through 2000 or so discs (via iPad as controler) while sitting on my couch.  They both sound great on a good system.

[Todd_A]

Vinyl's limitations - less dynamic range, more distortion, etc - is part of the appeal, I think.  Music often sounds warmer.  I listen mostly to digital, but vinyl is fun to listen to, especially with rock.  With classical, digital is generally better, though a really good vinyl pressing of string music can be more satisfying than digital.

It is worth noting that for hardcore music collectors, and I consider myself one, vinyl is something of a must.  Not everything has made it to digital, and some things never will, just as some titles never made it past 78s.

[Nuance]

Vinyl's limitations - less dynamic range, more distortion, etc - is part of the appeal, I think.  Music often sounds warmer.  I listen mostly to digital, but vinyl is fun to listen to, especially with rock.  With classical, digital is generally better, though a really good vinyl pressing of string music can be more satisfying than digital.

It is worth noting that for hardcore music collectors, and I consider myself one, vinyl is something of a must.  Not everything has made it to digital, and some things never will, just as some titles never made it past 78s.

Very true.  I think CD's sound better than vinyl, while vinyl diehards think the opposite.  A direct comparison easily made up my mind.   Isn't the entire point of building a "sweet rig" to achieve less distortion?  I know which ones sounds more like the live performance to my ears, but to each their own, and there's nothing wrong with liking one over the other.  Your happiness is the trump card.

[Todd_A]

Isn't the entire point of building a "sweet rig" to achieve less distortion?

Oh, absolutely.  That's why I listen mostly to digital.  But every once in a while, it's nice to listen to the aural equivalent of a warm, cozy blanket.  The Quartetto Italiano playing Schubert on (quiet) vinyl, for instance, can be most rewarding. 

[ThomasKott]

I'm really intrigued by the comment about getting a 2 channel amp (...someone mentioned a Wyred 4 Sound ST-500).  If you do this (..using my Pioneer SC-07 as a "pre-amp"), can I run surround movies and music through the Pioneer and 2 channel sources through the 2 channel amp?

It's fascinating to do the math and see how much a nice vinyl setup would cost.... and then step back and say, what else could I do with that amount of money to improve my listening experience.

Also, to respond to an earlier question, my current music collection is roughly 400 CD's and 100 SACD's.  I only have 6 albums.  Therefore, improving the sound of the digital collection (...via an investment in an amp and DAC) is obviously the smarter decision!