[OzarkTom]

Hi Chris

The Mola-Mola prices you've quoted in $ aren't quite correct because you converted the euro price including the Dutch 19% VAT so for example the power amps are 5000 euros each including 19% VAT and if exported to the US they would be 4200 euros or approx $5500 each. Although, don't quote me 'verbatim' because when I spoke to Jan-Peter on Thursday in Munich, he hadn't decided on an official US price just yet.

We, however, have been given the green light to release mono power amps using NC1200 modules and we are full steam ahead with plans to do so and will make announcements on our web site in due course. We anticipate sub $10K per pair to the US.

Cheers

John Young

Will there be US distribution or company direct sales only?

[morganc]

Silly question I know, but where would one go to buy the modules, and what are the exact DIY instructions to follow?   Has this been written up somewhere for non electrical engineers?   

[poseidonsvoice]

Silly question I know, but where would one go to buy the modules, and what are the exact DIY instructions to follow?   Has this been written up somewhere for non electrical engineers?

See here:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=105438.0

Best,
Anand.

[Chris Adams]

Hi Chris

The Mola-Mola prices you've quoted in $ aren't quite correct because you converted the euro price including the Dutch 19% VAT so for example the power amps are 5000 euros each including 19% VAT and if exported to the US they would be 4200 euros or approx $5500 each. Although, don't quote me 'verbatim' because when I spoke to Jan-Peter on Thursday in Munich, he hadn't decided on an official US price just yet.

We, however, have been given the green light to release mono power amps using NC1200 modules and we are full steam ahead with plans to do so and will make announcements on our web site in due course. We anticipate sub $10K per pair to the US.

Cheers

John Young

Thanks for that info. Looking forward to see what actually shows up in the North American market.

[kevinh]

The Mola pre with the integrated D/a looks interesting Bruno spoke of releasing a D/A module and DSP module, These + the NCore could be great for the DIY community.

[ted_b]

From Jan-Peter's mouth last Thursday in Munich.... he is adamant that NC400 is for DIY customers only and he will not allow them to be built commercially. I think they (Hypex) would be smart enough to spot multiple buying patterns........ 25.5 surround system?....Hmmmmm

So are you saying that if I am paying someone to build me a pair of NC400 monoblocks (I buy parts: basic enclosure, module and ps...he does labor) that it is possibly a contract violation, let alone warranty one?  Furthermore, even if the answer is no, at what level does DIY become commercial if this builder decides to do, say, a few a week?  I'm not trying to be pedantic here.  Just trying to understand the lines of demarcation, cuz $2k (rounded) investment is not chump change, regardless

[kevinh]

So are you saying that if I am paying someone to build me a pair of NC400 monoblocks (I buy parts: basic enclosure, module and ps...he does labor) that it is possibly a contract violation, let alone warranty one?  Furthermore, even if the answer is no, at what level does DIY become commercial if this builder decides to do, say, a few a week?  I'm not trying to be pedantic here.  Just trying to understand the lines of demarcation, cuz $2k (rounded) investment is not chump change, regardless

The intention is that the units built are for personal use not for commercial resale. What they don't want you building 20 units and selling them to others commercially and competing with their OEM.

I would suspect there are legal reasons for this also. IF you are selling a product commercially (OEM) there are safety requirements and testing that don't apply to an DIY'er. If a DIY customer were to resell a product that didn't undergo safety testing and harm resulted there could be legal laibility for HYPEX. One of the reasons an OEM based product will be more expensive.

[acousticimagery]

So are you saying that if I am paying someone to build me a pair of NC400 monoblocks (I buy parts: basic enclosure, module and ps...he does labor) that it is possibly a contract violation, let alone warranty one?  Furthermore, even if the answer is no, at what level does DIY become commercial if this builder decides to do, say, a few a week?  I'm not trying to be pedantic here.  Just trying to understand the lines of demarcation, cuz $2k (rounded) investment is not chump change, regardless

No, that wasn't what I was trying to say. As far as I understand what Jan-Peter is saying, he has no problems with guys helping DIY end users to build the NC 400's into working amps and of course, paying someone to do the assembly is OK and if the users buy the amps from Hypex in the usual way the 'assembly guy' could presumably just supply the enclosures and the labour.
What JP is trying to deflect is companies such as us at Acousticimagery buying NC400 for resale in commercial products. My answers here are as a result of me asking JP if I could do just that and he flatly refused and said I had to use NC1200's...
In my opinion, it's obvious that NC amps of various sizes and power will find their way into the Hypex's OEM inventory in time, but that time is not now as they are real busy at the moment.
I hope that explains the situation as I see it and this was discussed at length with JP and Bruno last Thursday in Munich. They really are nice guys and they appreciate all the help they get from the DIY community however, in turnover terms that part of Hypex's business is not very big and they also must remain loyal to their commercial customers of which we are but one small one.

John

[acousticimagery]

The intention is that the units built are for personal use not for commercial resale. What they don't want you building 20 units and selling them to others commercially and competing with their OEM.

I would suspect there are legal reasons for this also. IF you are selling a product commercially (OEM) there are safety requirements and testing that don't apply to an DIY'er. If a DIY customer were to resell a product that didn't undergo safety testing and harm resulted there could be legal laibility for HYPEX. One of the reasons an OEM based product will be more expensive.

I agree, there's also that aspect of it and I know only too well how much all the 'red tape costs.

John

[ted_b]

The intention is that the units built are for personal use not for commercial resale. What they don't want you building 20 units and selling them to others commercially and competing with their OEM.

I would suspect there are legal reasons for this also. IF you are selling a product commercially (OEM) there are safety requirements and testing that don't apply to an DIY'er. If a DIY customer were to resell a product that didn't undergo safety testing and harm resulted there could be legal laibility for HYPEX. One of the reasons an OEM based product will be more expensive.

Kevin,
I understand all that.  But NC400's in any box color and flavor won't compete with the OEM's cuz the OEM's will be using NC1200's.

[kevinh]

I agree, there's also that aspect of it and I know only too well how much all the 'red tape costs.

John

John, are Jan Peter making modules available for D/a converters, DSP yet?

They seem to be in the pipeline?


I understand if there are NDA's that prevent an answer.

[kevinh]

Kevin,
I understand all that.  But NC400's in any box color and flavor won't compete with the OEM's cuz the OEM's will be using NC1200's.

IIRC the NC1200's are 300w/8ohm, the NC400 200w/8ohm which is only a 2db difference. So there could be a lot of overlap IMO.

I would think  there will be more modules over time, they seem to be working hard to meet the demand for their NCore modules which may be exceeding their expectations, they still offer the UcD modules for OEM and Diy use.

[mgalusha]

I understand all that.  But NC400's in any box color and flavor won't compete with the OEM's cuz the OEM's will be using NC1200's.

In terms of sound quality they should compete very well. The NC400 has fully discrete circuitry vs the IC's of the NC1200, they also have a bit lower distortion ratings, of course the extra bit of power from the 1200 may be mandatory for some folks.

[ted_b]

In terms of sound quality they should compete very well. The NC400 has fully discrete circuitry vs the IC's of the NC1200, they also have a bit lower distortion ratings, of course the extra bit of power from the 1200 may be mandatory for some folks.

That's precisely my point.  Hypex has drawn a very clear simple line between OEM's and DIY, the model number.  Yet most of us are finding out (without hearing the NC1200's) that at least on paper the DIY boxes at $1500-2000 (built monoblocks) will be very tempting vs the slicker well-built $10-12k amps (this is 5X-6X $$ difference).  So the temptation to create a 20 module/week DIY build business is pretty high. 

[acousticimagery]

@ted_b      I think I agree with you but just to wrap this up. Official OEM's or more correctly VAR's (Value Added Resellers) who have access to Hypex products at sliding quantity discounts are asked by JP not to purchase NC400/SMPS. By the way, we see no discount on the price when we log in. I think if we did try to bulk buy we'd pretty soon be ex OEM's! Also remember that we still use UcD's and some 'unofficial' repackager of NC400's would certainly compete with us. DIY is just fine because it helps to spread the word by anecdotal experience to those who would never consider self building a hi fi. Those guys are our potential customers.

@kevinh     I don't know because we did not discuss it. Only power amps.

[cab]

Congrats on the new circle! Timely and will surely prove to be helpful to all those intrigued by this excellent new product....

[macrojack]

Those of us who have committed to the NC400 amps must all be thinking the same thing I've been thinking......what preamp will not hamper the performance of my amplifiers? (when I get them)

I bought a Jeff Rowland Capri in anticipation and intend to start with that but my thoughts are already on how to afford the Mola Mola preamp.

Does anyone have other suggestions? I want minimum 4 imputs, nice remote control that does more than volume up and down, and would like on board phono and DAC. My Capri already fills all of those requirements except for the DAC.

I already know about THE DUDE but I'm turned off by the lame remote and the size of the unit. Plus it has no phono.

Am I right that you have been thinking about this too? What will you use?

[mgalusha]

That's precisely my point.  Hypex has drawn a very clear simple line between OEM's and DIY, the model number.  Yet most of us are finding out (without hearing the NC1200's) that at least on paper the DIY boxes at $1500-2000 (built monoblocks) will be very tempting vs the slicker well-built $10-12k amps (this is 5X-6X $$ difference).  So the temptation to create a 20 module/week DIY build business is pretty high.

I completely agree Ted but as John said, Hypex makes it very clear that it's not an option. My post was from a purely technical perspective.

I have little doubt that someone will try and bend the rules and hopefully that won't screw it up for everyone else. As John mentioned earlier, I doubt there is a problem with a DIY type assembling a few amps for private parties who can't do so themselves as long as they don't try and make a business out of it.

Mike

[macrojack]

In my humble opinion, there would be no harm felt or offense taken in circumstances where an individual buys himself a kit and engages the services of a fellow hobbyist to assemble that kit.
Why would Hypex be concerned about who does the soldering?

If that same hobbyist began buying kits and selling finished product on the open market, I think that would be a clear violation of the spirit of DIY and might incite Hypex in a manner that we all would regret.

The control over this should lie in restrictions on the number of pieces available to any customer. If an individual is limited to six amplifier boards, he won't be able to establish much of a business nor corrupt the system appreciably.

[acousticimagery]

macrojack

You are absolutely correct except that you question, "Why would Hypex be concerned about who does the soldering?".....They aren't.

2nd paragraph.....I agree 100%

3rd paragraph......I don't think, as I've said previously, that Jan-Peter and Hypex are so naive that they wouldn't be able to spot a 'rogue entrepreneur' and distinguish them from the genuine multi channel/bi-amp/tri-amp hobbyist.