Class D versus the rest

jk@home · « **Reply #460 on:** 24 Oct 2014, 01:48 am »

Quote from: OzarkTom on 24 Oct 2014, 01:20 am

My Job 225 amp sounded thin for 100 hours, I have about 50 hours on the Crown. My buddy Rex is using the KEF's and Job amp and loving it.

Yes I've heard the Job amp is a good match for the KEFs. I will be interested in your comparison between that and the Crown.

werd · « **Reply #461 on:** 24 Oct 2014, 08:10 pm »

Quote from: a.wayne on 20 Oct 2014, 11:43 pm

This pic shows 4 outputs /ch, I'm asking if there is 4 more per side on the lower part of the sink , bringing the total to 8 /ch. 4 is way too small for its power rating ....

There is 4 on the bottom each side too. I like this amp but it has it's ups and downs.

a.wayne · « **Reply #462 on:** 24 Oct 2014, 09:34 pm »

Tks ....

OzarkTom · « **Reply #463 on:** 25 Oct 2014, 12:32 am »

Last night at the 50 hour mark, the 2000 was very thin and clinical sounding. 24 hours later, SQ is a lot smoother. And this is Friday night and I am not hearing the usual AC distortion. Now that is impressive. Sound is still slightly clinical.

JDUBS · « **Reply #464 on:** 25 Oct 2014, 01:54 am »

I guess with in-built crossover, these Crown amps have a a->d->a stage?

-Jim

DaveC113 · « **Reply #465 on:** 25 Oct 2014, 03:15 am »

Good question Jim, I bet the crossover is processed digitally but I wonder if has to be converted back to analog...

The Crown is sounding better and better, it's been a week and I've had it on 24/7. My SET is probably a little better overall but I prefer the Crown for rock and electronic music so ideally I'd switch between them depending on what I'm listening to. A more powerful SET amp would probably be better than both but they don't come cheap. In any case it's pretty amazing for $262.

Folsom · « **Reply #466 on:** 25 Oct 2014, 03:19 am »

How much power do you need Dave?

With class D, you wouldn't have to go digital to cut frequency. I'm not saying they don't, but it's not a must.

Jon L · « **Reply #467 on:** 25 Oct 2014, 06:44 pm »

Quote from: DaveC113 on 25 Oct 2014, 03:15 am

The Crown is sounding better and better, it's been a week and I've had it on 24/7. My SET is probably a little better overall but I prefer the Crown for rock and electronic music so ideally I'd switch between them depending on what I'm listening to. A more powerful SET amp would probably be better than both but they don't come cheap. In any case it's pretty amazing for $262.

That's pretty promising news. For that rock bottom price, Crown likely used the minimum required parts quality, wiring, etc. I wonder what a little reasonable modding could do..

jackman · « **Reply #468 on:** 25 Oct 2014, 07:16 pm »

This thread sounds like a bunch of wishful thinking. The Crown is cheap and powerful and lots of guys are REALLY wanting it to sound good. I have not heard the latest generation of pro amps, but my Crown K1, an awesome subwoofer amp, is not suitable for a hifi system. The sound is 2D and no matter how much I want it to sound better than my other amps and no matter how many thousands of hours of "breakin" it has or how much sorbothane I put under it, it's still a 2D pro amp.

I may pick up a Crown for my subwoofer if the xover allows me to ditch the DcX, but I don't anticipate using it as a replacement for a decent hifi amp.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #469 on:** 25 Oct 2014, 07:21 pm »

Quote from: jackman on 25 Oct 2014, 07:16 pm

This thread sounds like a bunch of wishful thinking. The Crown is cheap and powerful and lots of guys are REALLY wanting it to sound good. I have not heard the latest generation of pro amps, but my Crown K1, an awesome subwoofer amp, is not suitable for a hifi system. The sound is 2D and no matter how much I want it to sound better than my other amps and no matter how many thousands of hours of "breakin" it has or how much sorbothane I put under it, it's still a 2D pro amp.

I may pick up a Crown for my subwoofer if the xover allows me to ditch the DcX, but I don't anticipate using it as a replacement for a decent hifi amp.

Jack,

I think I am going all in on some power hungry speakers, and so I may grab one or two of these to amplify while the audio fund recovers. Or hell, maybe they stay for long-term duty. Who knows. But let's compare these to your ncores when I've pulled the trigger.

If I understand correctly, these Crowns are quite different internally from your K1. But of course there are concerns about parts quality at those price points.

a.wayne · « **Reply #470 on:** 25 Oct 2014, 08:13 pm »

I'm with Jackman on this, interesting to hear the comments ..........

werd · « **Reply #471 on:** 25 Oct 2014, 08:15 pm »

Quote from: roscoeiii on 25 Oct 2014, 07:21 pm

Jack,

I think I am going all in on some power hungry speakers, and so I may grab one or two of these to amplify while the audio fund recovers. Or hell, maybe they stay for long-term duty. Who knows. But let's compare these to your ncores when I've pulled the trigger.

If I understand correctly, these Crowns are quite different internally from your K1. But of course there are concerns about parts quality at those price points.

You nailed it right there. This Yorkville is really interesting, but you can hear the cheap parts in it. Anybody interested in going further with their own class H would be interested in this amp for modding. Its has lots of potential but a little lacking resolution. Getting rid of those connects out of the transformer would be a great start. Then hardwiring a decent cable would raise its performance. Can use a complete cap upgrade. All of this isn't hard for those who have done this. Diode replacement in the power supply could try but may not be necessary for class H. It's got lots of air and low distortion.

DaveC113 · « **Reply #472 on:** 25 Oct 2014, 08:32 pm »

Quote from: Salis Audio on 25 Oct 2014, 03:19 am

How much power do you need Dave?

Something like 40 watts would be great. Doable with SET but not cheap.

Jackman, they were 2d at first but not now.I bet these will come uncomfortably close to your NCore, might actually be hard to tell apart.

Jon, there is literally no wiring, no separate power supply... Some of the connectors could be upgraded but they are all pcb mount.

jackman · « **Reply #473 on:** 25 Oct 2014, 10:44 pm »

Hi Roscoe, sounds good. I have no emotional connection to my amp. If the cheap crown sounds as good, I'll sell the Ncore immediately. Right after I pick my jaw off the floor. I'm not saying the crown pro amps are not a great value but I don't think I they can compete with something like the ncore.

Dave, I hope the Crown sounds better. The difference in price between it and the NCore is staggering. The crown has power but I believe it lacks refinement. We've been down this road before with giant killer amps. So far none of them have lived up to the hype. Wishful thinking is very powerful but reality usually wins out.

Cheers

Jack

OzarkTom · « **Reply #474 on:** 25 Oct 2014, 11:31 pm »

Believe Dave on this one, this Crown amp is worthy to hook up a great system full range. I am running it on Zellatons, and these amps are very 3D with tons of detail. Vocals are sounding fantastic. I have decided to buy another and use them as monos, 2100 Wpc into 4 ohms.

The Crown 1000's have been selling for less than $200 each on Ebay, for less than $400, you have monos that puts out over 1000 Wpc into 4ohms. But I have dibs on the next 2000 that sells for 300 bucks, so no one grab it.

a.wayne · « **Reply #475 on:** 25 Oct 2014, 11:36 pm »

Isn't 300.00 close to new retail . ? man Crowns have never worked for me sound wise and i have had a few, color me a skeptic , I will wait to see if Jack ditch the NCores ..

DaveC113 · « **Reply #476 on:** 26 Oct 2014, 01:18 am »

The 2000 retails for $899 and can be purchased for $499. Ebay does have some good deal on these amps...

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/XLS2000

I wouldn't consider the 1000 though, 6 dB worse S/N ratio.

These amps are a relatively new "DriveCore" class D design, not like older Crown amps.

OzarkTom · « **Reply #477 on:** 26 Oct 2014, 02:50 am »

Quote from: DaveC113 on 26 Oct 2014, 01:18 am

The 2000 retails for $899 and can be purchased for $499. Ebay does have some good deal on these amps...

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/XLS2000

I wouldn't consider the 1000 though, 6 dB worse S/N ratio.

These amps are a relatively new "DriveCore" class D design, not like older Crown amps.

The 1000 should still have better specs than the cheap TPA amps that the C&C crowd are building. And yes, Dave is right again, these Crown amps makes the TBI sound veiled. For $150 used on Ebay, the 1000 will clearly be the new champ for the Cheap and Cheerful circle.

I also checked on Crown's website, these amps have a transferable 3 year warranty.

I wish I was into electronics now, someone sharp could add a tube input stage and make some money modding these amps.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #478 on:** 26 Oct 2014, 04:14 am »

Quote from: OzarkTom on 26 Oct 2014, 02:50 am

The 1000 should still have better specs than the cheap TPA amps that the C&C crowd are building. And yes, Dave is right again, these Crown amps makes the TBI sound veiled. For $150 used on Ebay, the 1000 will clearly be the new champ for the Cheap and Cheerful circle.

I also checked on Crown's website, these amps have a transferable 3 year warranty.

I wish I was into electronics now, someone sharp could add a tube input stage and make some money modding these amps.

So the iTube is working out well then? no negative impact on detail retrieval?

DaveC113 · « **Reply #479 on:** 26 Oct 2014, 04:18 am »

Quote from: OzarkTom on 26 Oct 2014, 02:50 am

The 1000 should still have better specs than the cheap TPA amps that the C&C crowd are building. And yes, Dave is right again, these Crown amps makes the TBI sound veiled. For $150 used on Ebay, the 1000 will clearly be the new champ for the Cheap and Cheerful circle.

I also checked on Crown's website, these amps have a transferable 3 year warranty.

I wish I was into electronics now, someone sharp could add a tube input stage and make some money modding these amps.

I was just thinking all it needs is a tube buffer input, which would allow it to mate with a passive pre easily too. D amps seem to benefit from tubes feeding them. As is the 10k input impedance single ended is a little low too. A couple of 6SN7s would be great, I'm using the 5692 version in my preamp and they give a good full-bodied sound. The connectors could be upgraded but it would be better to find suitable PCB-mount replacements of high quality in the exact same form factor as the stock connectors. There are some options out there... The binding posts could be replaced pretty easy with std posts of higher quality.