Speakers with Digital Input

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JohnR

Re: Speakers with Digital Input
« Reply #20 on: 3 Jul 2012, 11:25 am »
Added the B&W MM-1 to the list. A bit short on some specs.

dehory

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Re: Speakers with Digital Input
« Reply #21 on: 7 Sep 2013, 02:47 am »
Adam Artist 3 (review) and Artist 5 (hands-on)
USB digital input (sadly, no SPDIF/coax). RRP is $1000 for the 3s and $1200 for the 5s.

If pro studio monitors are being considered, the very nice and very expensive Klein + Hummel O300D (review) is an option. The Neumann KH 120 D mentioned earlier in the thread still seems to be pending release.

Russell Dawkins

Re: Speakers with Digital Input
« Reply #22 on: 16 Oct 2013, 07:07 pm »
If pro studio monitors are being considered, the very nice and very expensive Klein + Hummel O300D (review) is an option. The Neumann KH 120 D mentioned earlier in the thread still seems to be pending release.
The new Neumann KH310 is a relative bargain when the amplification is considered - just over half the price of the real competition. Hugh Robjohns, who reviewed (and loved) the 0300 in the link you posted has bought the review pair of 310s. You can bet K+H is working feverishly on the 310D (with digital input).
Another digital input monitor of very high caliber is the new Geithain RL 906D, which has an AES/EBU (3pin XLR) digital input:
http://www.me-geithain.de/index.php/en/studio/products/active-loudspeaker/rl906d

..and a note to JLM: Neumann does not own Sennheiser; Sennheiser bought Neumann in 1991 and Klein und Hummel in 2005 and cleverly decided to put the Neumann name on the superb K+H studio monitors and use the Sennheiser name for the PA and installed sound speakers made by K+H. Neumann and Sennheiser are both well recognized and respected brands, where K+H was unknown, although the world's first self-powered studio monitor maker, to my knowledge. They made the OY from 1967 to 1987 which was a bi-amplified three way with a configuration very much like the 0300/310:
http://www.neumann-kh-line.com/neumann-kh/home_en.nsf/root/prof-monitoring_discontinued-monitors_studio-products_OY

K+H (now Neumann) and Geithain are widely used in the German professional sound community, including the radio and television system.

Russell Dawkins

Re: Speakers with Digital Input
« Reply #23 on: 16 Oct 2013, 10:02 pm »
P.S. the "real competition" I referred to above is the ATC SCM25 which sells for $8000 vs $4500 a pair.

JeffB

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Re: Speakers with Digital Input
« Reply #24 on: 17 Oct 2013, 12:02 am »
How do you get stereo to a pair of speakers?

Russell Dawkins

Re: Speakers with Digital Input
« Reply #25 on: 17 Oct 2013, 01:12 am »
How do you get stereo to a pair of speakers?

There is a switch on the back with a left/right/both selection.

JeffB

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Re: Speakers with Digital Input
« Reply #26 on: 17 Oct 2013, 02:01 am »
So if you have SPDIF digital coaxial do you use a simple y-splitter?

srb

Re: Speakers with Digital Input
« Reply #27 on: 17 Oct 2013, 02:17 am »
So if you have SPDIF digital coaxial do you use a simple y-splitter?

There are some digital speakers that have an digital output to connect to the other speaker and a selector switch on each speaker determines whether the L or R channel (or both) is decoded.

With these, it assumes you probably have a pro digital workstation or board with multiple digital AES/EBU outputs.  If not, you would need a splitter box or cable (< $100), which can be a passive low-loss transformer coupled unit (or if a Y-cable, the transformers are built into the cable) which should be no problem for the short distances required between L and R speakers.

Steve

JohnR

Re: Speakers with Digital Input
« Reply #28 on: 17 Oct 2013, 07:14 am »
The new Neumann KH310 is a relative bargain when the amplification is considered - just over half the price of the real competition. Hugh Robjohns, who reviewed (and loved) the 0300 in the link you posted has bought the review pair of 310s. You can bet K+H is working feverishly on the 310D (with digital input).
Another digital input monitor of very high caliber is the new Geithain RL 906D, which has an AES/EBU (3pin XLR) digital input:
http://www.me-geithain.de/index.php/en/studio/products/active-loudspeaker/rl906d

Thanks Russell, I've added these to the list. I'm confused about the comment about the 310D, as the PDF block diagram for the 310 A..... oh and just now the penny drops.... A and D... duh... well, so I'm not sure if the pricing info is correct.

JohnR

Re: Speakers with Digital Input
« Reply #29 on: 17 Oct 2013, 07:15 am »
Bamberg Series 3  (compact full-range 3-way) will be released next month in active DSP format via Hypex AS2.100. 

http://bambergaudio.com/products/in-development/s3-id.php

Thanks Phil, but the link says absolutely nothing about the DSP version. If you could update when you have actual info, pricing etc, I'll add it to the list. Thanks  :thumb:

Russell Dawkins

Re: Speakers with Digital Input
« Reply #30 on: 17 Oct 2013, 08:16 am »
Just to be clear, John, the Neumann KH310 is not yet available in the D model, nor is the KH120D, which according to Neumann is due out in early 2014. The 310, at the same price as the K+H 0300 which it replaces is better in a number of ways, not least of which is the greater headroom in the bass. Apparently max levels are around 6 dB greater than the 0300 which was already great in this regard - to all but massive bass lovers. Headroom in the midrange is already outstanding, thanks to the tri-amplification and the three inch dome mid, but apparently even that has improved. I think a pair of 310s at $4500 and a pair of 0810 subs at $5400 (flat to 19Hz) would make a $9900 system that I would like to see anyone better at the price, just as the KH 310s are not bettered by any other combination of amps and speakers I am aware of at the price.

I know the D/A converter on the Neumann KH 120 will be 16-24 bit and 32-192k capable, so the D/A for the 310 will be, too, for sure. Hard to say what the premium will be, though - I'm guessing $2300 vs $1500 for the pair of KH120Ds vs KH 120As, and $5500 for the KH310Ds.

JohnR

Re: Speakers with Digital Input
« Reply #31 on: 17 Oct 2013, 09:38 am »
Just to be clear, John, the Neumann KH310 is not yet available in the D model, nor is the KH120D, which according to Neumann is due out in early 2014.

Well... I'm just wondering if I should take them off the list - ? well... how about I just put annotate the descriptions.

I wonder what the holdup is. The 310D does look awesome.

Russell Dawkins

Re: Speakers with Digital Input
« Reply #32 on: 17 Oct 2013, 05:17 pm »
Well... I'm just wondering if I should take them off the list - ? well... how about I just put annotate the descriptions.

I wonder what the holdup is. The 310D does look awesome.
I guess the holdup may be something to do with the fact that the Neumann name carries a tremendous amount of weight in the professional sound community and Sennheiser wants to be sure that anything going out under that name be exceedingly well tested and fine-tuned. Neumann is arguably the pre-eminent name in microphones globally, and has been for at least 50 years. This is the first time the name has been applied to transducers at the other end of the chain, and I'm sure the decision was not taken lightly by anyone at Sennheiser, Neumann or Klein and Hummel.

It was, after all, 7 years after Sennheiser acquired Klein und Hummel that the first Neumann branded speaker materialized, and it was widely considered to be better than the model it replaced. That was no mean feat, as the Neumann KH120 replaced the K+H 0110 which, as a small monitor, was already considered exceptional by many.

The K+H 0300 was also held in the highest regard by many and must have been difficult to improve upon. The problem is that the K+H line, in its 5 models from smallest to largest, makes so much sense that improving it would not involve changing the fundamental configuration, but improving the performance. K+H models already performed so well that this must be a real challenge.

In designing the digital model of the KH310 they might be allowing for or trying to decide whether to incorporate the feature of allowing for an external digital room compensation system as was provided for the K+H 0300D and higher models in the line (0410, 0500, and the three bigger subs). This is the Pro C-28 and is mind-bogglingly flexible, but also expensive:
http://www.neumann-kh-line.com/neumann-kh/home_en.nsf/root/prof-monitoring_studio-electronic_ProC28#

JLM

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Re: Speakers with Digital Input
« Reply #33 on: 17 Oct 2013, 09:43 pm »
Current street price for the Adam Artist 3 is $800/pair.

Please add Quad 9AS:  $1300/pair; 2-way; RCA, 3.5 mini plug, USB, coax, optical inputs; 24/192 DAC; cherry veneer; remote/front controls; limited information

yetis

Re: Speakers with Digital Input
« Reply #34 on: 24 Oct 2013, 05:28 pm »
This is a most informative post.  One question, does anyone know of any in-wall powered DSP loudspeakers options?   I am well aware of the Meridian options

https://www.meridian-audio.com/en/collections/products/dsp520-in-wall-loudspeaker/34/

https://www.meridian-audio.com/en/collections/products/dsp640-in-wall-loudspeaker/35/

Are there any others?

Also, are people surprised you don't see more manufacturers getting into high end DSP's, similar to what Meridian does?

JLM

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Re: Speakers with Digital Input
« Reply #35 on: 25 Oct 2013, 09:43 am »
yetis,

I'm surprised that there is still such a big gap between studio engineers and audiophiles, after all they serve us and we depend on them.  But I can understand why after long days, weeks, years of listening to 'whatever' the studio guy wouldn't have an appetite for more music at home (just like the fast food worker not wanting to eat hamburgers at home).  I know the purpose of studio work is to find and try to fix all the warts versus the audiophile simply wanting to enjoy (and hopefully appreciate what was done in the studio).  And I know the studio approach (cheaper/dry sounding speakers used near field) doesn't fit the audiophile model of 'proper' room, setup, synergized components, etc.

The resistance to self-powered speakers is just part of this mutual "un-respect" gulf.  Studio guys would like better (more accurately) sounding monitors, but like audiophiles can lack funds or proper space.  But its unfortunate that so few audiophiles don't accept the inherent advantages of active speaker design.

Russell Dawkins

Re: Speakers with Digital Input
« Reply #36 on: 25 Oct 2013, 09:14 pm »

 ... And I know the studio approach (cheaper/dry sounding speakers used near field) doesn't fit the audiophile model of 'proper' room, setup, synergized components, etc. ...


It is worth noting that this approach characterizes amateur low-budget studios, but not serious ones - except for the "dry-sounding" descriptor, which applies to some of the best studio monitors (like Neumann/K+H, Trident HG3 and various ATCs, but not PMC, in spite of what their acronymic name - Professional Monitor Company - suggests). This dry vs wet bass, I think, is a current problem in that almost all domestic-aimed speakers of which I am aware are "wet" (resonant) in the bass - because the temptation to use bass reflex techniques to increase bass output in otherwise too-small boxes almost inevitably results in this. For the same reasons most (especially cheaper) studio monitors are of the same variety and have similar wooly, smeared, wet or one-note bass.

A side effect of this is that bass reflex speakers tend to have a sonic signature in the bass region (the "one note") which means that the mix made by the engineer will sound truly as intended at mixdown only on the same speakers the music was mixed on. If the monitors were dry in the bass regions as is usually the case with sealed boxes like the Neumanns KH 310s  and the Yamaha NS-10s then the mix tends to translate better to more speakers although, again, bass reflex types will display their characteristic bloom in the nether regions.
Click on the pdf link halfway down this well-informed article for some illuminating graphs. Note particularly the waterfall plots, especially for the K+H 198, the Yamaha NS10, the PMC and the ATC:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep08/articles/yamahans10.htm

Russell Dawkins

Re: Speakers with Digital Input
« Reply #37 on: 10 Mar 2014, 07:38 am »
Well for the sake of completeness I'm bring up these KS Digital Studio monitors.
http://ksaudio.com/ks-digital/adm20/adm20.html
I just learned of them today, and have not heard them, but some engineers with significant experience in top studios, like George Martin's "Air" Studio (see the videos on the site) endorse them in the strongest terms. Digital inputs of up to 24/192 are accepted and the digital models are unique to my knowledge in using FIR-type dsp. FIR stands for finite impulse response and, although the science is beyond me, I understand it to be the sounding due to the lack of phase distortion around the crossover frequency. It is not usually seen due either to heavy cpu hit or difficulty of design - I simply don't know.

I do know these speakers are very expensive by the usual fairly modest pro standards. The two way ADM 20 (8" woofer, 1" tweeter; 200/100w) ,which was so highly spoken of in the video review by Swiss engineer Sirio Balmelli (see "about us" page; one over from top left) is $4950USD each, for example.

Russell Dawkins

Re: Speakers with Digital Input
« Reply #38 on: 10 Mar 2014, 07:48 am »
...and the matching subwoofers are $3600 each - but they do replace a stand, and shipping is "free" to North America so that's 17,100 a pair.
Hmmm, the JBL M2's go for $20,000 a pair. That would be a shoot out I'd like to hear. 8)

Russell Dawkins

Re: Speakers with Digital Input
« Reply #39 on: 10 Mar 2014, 07:51 am »
That would be a shoot out I'd like to hear. 8)

...especially since they both claim roughly the same peak spl. (123 - 125dB).