[rajesh]

Please stop making an assumption that tubes equal higher distortion.

This hasn't been true for quite some time now.

Seems to have ruffled some feathers here.

I was making a general statement George. Incidentally, I have a NOS DAC with dual TDA 1541 chips and dual EC88CC tubes at the output stage. I also have a pre-amp which is a design inspired by Marantz 7 with 62NP (Russian) tubes.

I'm specially sold on the NOS DAC.

[zybar]

Seems to have ruffled some feathers here.

I was making a general statement George. Incidentally, I have a NOS DAC with dual TDA 1541 chips and dual EC88CC tubes at the output stage. I also have a pre-amp which is a design inspired by Marantz 7 with 62NP (Russian) tubes.

I'm specially sold on the NOS DAC.

Not ruffling feathers.

Just trying not to have old stereotypes perpetuated.

George

[rajesh]

Incidentally he (Bruno) has alluded to a world beating dac on the way, as well as speakers... stay tuned.

Whoa, just what the Doctor ordered. Could you point to us where was he quoted stating this?

[lowtech]

Bruno has been involved with the Grimm Audio venture for some time.  Grimm makes an active multi-way dipole that uses a crossover, DAC and (NCore) amps built by Hypex.

[Rclark]

Whoa, just what the Doctor ordered. Could you point to us where was he quoted stating this?

 I can try and dig up the quote but it's very early in development. He has a couple going I think but the one I was talking about, he was alluding to as an upcoming project.

Incidentally, not to ruffle anymore..feathers, but Bruno is no fan of tube preamps, tube anything. Given the ncore, take that for what you will.

[planet10]

Grimm makes an active multi-way dipole that uses a crossover, DAC and (NCore) amps built by Hypex.

It is a sealed monopole. Except for the ubiqitous mid-bass to tweeter XO right where XOs are worst, seems pretty well thot out.

dave

[lowtech]

It is a sealed monopole.

You are correct.  The details of the design are all contained here: http://www.grimmaudio.com/product_info/grimm%20ls1%20leaflet.pdf.  Everything seems to have been done for a reason, including the placement of the XO point.  The fact that they were able to deliver a TP design using IIR is an impressive feat IMO.

Anyway, this seems like a diversion from the intent of the thread.  I brought Grimm up because it uses NCore amps and has built-in DACs (DLCP) apparently also made by Hypex.

[wilsynet]

So I guess anyone who tries one of these amps and doesn't fall immediately in love with the sound (or lack of it) must have an affinity for colored sound?

What is an objective definition of coloration?

[jackman]

What is an objective definition of coloration?

Good question, maybe some of the experts can help answer it.  I'm excited to try this new amp and admit that I'm a sceptic at heart.  Most "miracle" products I have tried have rarely lived up to the hype or my own expectations. 

Please note, I'm excited to hear this new amp and hope it is as good as people say.  Lots of people who I genuinely respect are saying very positive things.  Looking forward to checking it out and making up my own mind.

JTWRace is very generous and trusting, letting people demo his cool new amp.  Although I missed the original sign up, I'm hoping to hear it at Roscoe's place.

Cheers

Jack

[macrojack]

What speakers were you driving with them?

Are you going to pull the trigger and order some ?

Thanks,
Tim

Tim - My speakers are a horn hybrid arrangement that I cobbled together. They are about 96-98 db. efficiency and can't be named concisely. If you are interested in more detail, I'll lay it out for you.
The short answer is big wooden horns with 2 inch compression drivers, passive crossovers and a 15 inch woofer in ported cabinet.

I have placed an order but I haven't yet paid. I plan to use a PS and an amplifier module for each speaker. I'm thinking of incorporating the amps into a box along with my outboard XO.
That way I can just hardwire the crossovers to the amp outputs. That just leaves 2 connections, AC in and preamp in. Perhaps I'll have my cabinet guy build boxes for them.

[emailtim]

... They are about 96-98 db. efficiency ...
... I have placed an order but I haven't yet paid. ...

Thanks for the info.  I went from 101 dB to 84 dB speakers.  Both ends have their issues and liked both for what they did best. 

The 101 dB speakers were a great noise detector and had me fixing/replacing things that other speakers never even noticed. 

The NC400's sound very clean from the reviews so far, but I am still concerned if they have the grunt for a difficult load.

[Rclark]

The NC400's sound very clean from the reviews so far, but I am still concerned if they have the grunt for a difficult load.

They are bridgeable for I think 1200 watts @ 4 ohms. Got that from DIYaudio thread. Sounds a bit high but that's what's reported. Either way, bridgeable for super high power.

[Steidl Guitars]

So I guess anyone who tries one of these amps and doesn't fall immediately in love with the sound (or lack of it) must have an affinity for colored sound?

Funny.  Earlier I was appreciating that I must be defective, because I've never been entirely happy unless I've had tubes somewhere in the chain. 

And I've got three pre-amps... yeah, all tube... so when I get to hear these things (I have a pair ordered), there will still be tubes. 

[James Romeyn]

Can anyone tell me when finished Ncore (new module) amps will be available for sale for us non do it yourself types. I can't wait to try these amps out. Thanks!
Joe

There are sum total two Ncore amps: DIY (400W @ 4 Ohms with one SMPS600 PS per channel, no OEM volume discounts, OEM not prohibited/not solicited) and IIRC OEM 600W @ 4 Ohms.  The first and only known OEM Ncore is huge and gorgeous Theta monoblock with analog PS, $6k/ch MSRP.

FYI: for DIY, after sourcing a chassis (precut available from other than Hypex), the only wiring is AC line, input/output and plugging in the amp to ps harness. 

Two things I heard at CES 2012 may have been new audio benchmarks for me.  The sound is still in my head, and I'm hoping Ncore delivers some of the effect.  Hard to say which of these two systems were better:

Aesthetic mono blocks (hybrid, $16k-ish/pair IIRC) driving Vandersteen Carbon 5 (IIRC)

New ModWright tube preamp with on-board DAC (combining the two saves at least one gain stage), ModWright's best stereo amp (IIRC 150W SE) driving AudioMachina speakers (cabinets milled from solid blocks of aluminum...I suppose at least one panel like the rear is screwed into place)

Both systems had a mesmerizing overall presence, coherence, and musicality  that was unique and irresistible.  Such effects require world class amps.
   

[emailtim]

...  They are bridgeable for I think 1200 watts @ 4 ohms. ...

I don't know how they can get 1200 from 2x400. 

When bridging, I thought the limit is usually a factor of 2X ???  1200 would be a factor of 3X which doesn't sound correct.  Any ideas ?

[Rclark]

"... Yes you can bridge two modules just like UcD (and just like UcD it helps to strap a small cap across the load to insure the two amps synchronize). This would make a 1200W/4ohm amp (NC1200 is 1200W/2ohm). ...

But three of them?  "

 - from Bruno.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendors-bazaar/190434-hypex-ncore-360.html#post2980644

 oh, hey, I pulled that from your post Tim. It seems you can have everything with these amps.

[JohnR]

I don't know how they can get 1200 from 2x400. 

When bridging, I thought the limit is usually a factor of 2X ???  1200 would be a factor of 3X which doesn't sound correct.  Any ideas ?

Each module is seeing half the load impedance. If the amp were able to push double the power into half the load then the bridged rating would be four times. However, they usually can't, so the bridged rating is somewhat less than four times. You can see in the datasheet that the NC400 is rated at 400W into 4 ohms and 580W into 2 ohms, so when bridged into 4 ohms, you get double 580 i.e. roughly 1200W into 4 ohms.

Not all amps will work well into 2 ohms, so you may see the spec you are thinking of which would be e.g. 400W into 4 ohms and 800W into 8 ohm.

[emailtim]

... But three of them?  ...

Each module is seeing half the load impedance. If the amp were able to push double the power into half the load then the bridged rating would be four times. However, they usually can't, so the bridged rating is somewhat less than four times. You can see in the datasheet that the NC400 is rated at 400W into 4 ohms and 580W into 2 ohms, so when bridged into 4 ohms, you get double 580 i.e. roughly 1200W into 4 ohms.

Not all amps will work well into 2 ohms, so you may see the spec you are thinking of which would be e.g. 400W into 4 ohms and 800W into 8 ohm.

JohnR and RClark,

Thanks for your responses. 

The "But three of them?" confused me.  I have never seen 3 amps used in a bridged configuration, only 2.

So in bridged mode, the amps would be seeing a 2 Ohm load on 4 Ohm speakers.  That maybe stressing them a bit, but the specs state "Lower load impedances are allowed".

• Output power 580W/2ohms, THD=1%
• Output power 400W/4ohms, THD=1%
• Output power 200W/8ohms, THD=1%
• Characterised from open circuit down to 2 ohm. Lower load impedances are allowed, 24A current limit
• Signal-to-noise ratio: unweighted, min 124dB re full power, 101dB re 2.8Vrms
• Output impedance: typ. 0.7 milliohms (corresponds to a DF of 11000)
• PSRR: better than 85dB

http://www.hypex.nl/docs/NC400_datasheet.pdf
Just checked the Datasheet.  The minimum recommended Load Impedance is 1 Ohm.

[JohnR]

The datasheet rates them as 580W into 2 ohms.

I'm not going to go back and check, but the "three of them" quote now falsely attributed to me is I believe a reference to JimR's purchase of 3 modules presumably for his trinaural setup, not a reference to bridging.

[emailtim]

..., but the "three of them" quote now falsely attributed to me ...

JohnR,

I wasn't implying "three of them" came from you, sorry.

It came from a post from ackcheng "http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendors-bazaar/190434-hypex-ncore-42.html#post2727430, post #419.

"Hi Bruno,

Can you NC400 be Bridged to get more power? 3 of them will make NC1200! "

I missed the "joke" in the post.  I read (3x400wpc = 1200wpc).