[cab]

If one takes the time to read the comments on the mains supply made in various places by Bruno, you will find that recommends straight into the wall without any sort of treatment, filtering, etc.

[Danny Richie]

If one takes the time to read the comments on the mains supply made in various places by Bruno, you will find that recommends straight into the wall without any sort of treatment, filtering, etc.

Yeah, that didn't work out to well in my system. I wouldn't recommend it.

[jtwrace]

Yeah, that didn't work out to well in my system. I wouldn't recommend it.

With all due respect, you are a cap, wire and tweaker while Bruno Putzeys is NOT.  He's 100% science. 

It's up to each person to treat their build as they please but DO NOT make this thread anything more then your listening impressions.  We have an NCore Improvement thread for that. 

[Danny Richie]

With all due respect, you are a cap, wire and tweaker while Bruno Putzeys is NOT.  He's 100% science. 

It's up to each person to treat their build as they please but DO NOT make this thread anything more then your listening impressions.  We have an NCore Improvement thread for that.

That recommendation was based on my listening impressions.

[jackman]

With all due respect, you are a cap, wire and tweaker while Bruno Putzeys is NOT.  He's 100% science. 

With all due respect, are you the same guy who was trying to unload some $1000/pair caps in the for sale section?  Doesn't that make you a cap and wire tweaked or at least a reformed one?

Danny was only giving an opinion regarding what he felt sounded better, based on first hand experience. Isn't that what this thread is all about or is it off limits to cap and wire tweakers? 

Cheers

Jack

[mjosef]

I will just say that my last week second encounter with the Ncore amp was a blast! 
I miss it, now that it's gone.



Go back one page to catch my take...

[cab]

When something is system dependent, making any recommendation, other than trying both with and without, is rather meaningless....

[jackman]

Thank you Cab "Self-appointed defender of all things Ncore".   From the sound of it, he tried it with and without and preferred the sound when it wasn't plugged directly into the wall.  Don't worry, it does not look like Danny was demeaning the sacred Ncore in any way. The kind of talk is not tolerated around these parts.

[cab]

You are most welcome, self-appointed "master of the obvious".

[Danny Richie]

Okay guys, I will re-word my recommendation.

I (strongly) recommend that anyone using these or considering using them to try some power conditioning and various power cables with them.

Like I said initially, these amps (like all other digital amps) are very much dependent on the incoming power. An in the case, with these amps, the difference could easily be make or break.

And BTW, the power cables that came with the amps that I tried lean very heavy on the filtering side. Yes, those power cables are filters. And if no other conditioning is used then those power cables are a good choice. 

[OzarkTom]

I sure could have used the Uber Buss here in my system when I tried out the Ncores. Even those $1K power cords could not filter out the AC grunge that I have coming into my house , with the amps plugged straight into the wall.

Maybe an amp designer could come to my home town for the ultimate challenge.

[Triode Pete]

I sure could have used the Uber Buss here in my system when I tried out the Ncores. Even those $1K power cords could not filter out the AC grunge that I have coming into my house , with the amps plugged straight into the wall.

Maybe an amp designer could come to my home town for the ultimate challenge.

Yes, the PI UberBuss does a phenomenal job in filtering hash & correcting power factor (see Danny's original post on the UberBuss / NC400 combo)... but remember "overfiltering / over-conditioning" can have detrimental effects on Sound Quality. I'm hoping to have the opportunity to try the NC400 & the professional NC1200 modules in my system(s) real soon & I plan on putting the Uber & Rev. B to work...

[bhakti]

Just a side note about power.  Everyone is tapped into a different grid and differently within that grid.  So, power conditioning/filtering becomes an isolated exercise and should be seen as such.

I wish I could be %100 science. 

[Rclark]

 Danny I was really looking forward to your review and enjoyed it. Food for thought there, but after reading some of these I think I must have some of the cleanest AC power going. I don't know if living right smack dab in the middle of tech central (Microsoft, Nintendo, Medtronic, numerous tech companies located within very short distances) has anything to do with it. We must have a good power infrastucture here. It's a very nice area with a lot of very nice neighborhoods.

 Anyway, good to know that once you got your situation figured out, you had very high praise for these amps, perhaps the highest, which I think some people seemed to overlook.

"Anyone looking at amps in this price range or above should give them a listen. I'd easily take them over any Krell, Classe, Mark Levinson or any other solid state amp that is considered a top level amp. Know though that you are not done with these by just buying the amps, or mounting the kit into a chassis. Good cabling and some power conditioning is a must."

[Toaster]

Seems reasonable enough to me- listening impressions, the conditions under which they were done and some observations and recommendations based on that. Different perspectives are one of the things that  make forums like this valuable, IMHO. Also, although I'm sure he doesn't need me to say it, I would mildly point out that Danny is a professional loudspeaker designer, not a '...cap, wire and tweaker...' (sic.), although even if he was 'just' a amateur DIYer like me, I would hope that his opinion and experience would be respected. Bruno is clearly one of the top guys in his field, but with specialist audio the experience of music in the listening environment is what it's all about from a user's point of view. The advice of an experienced listener and designer is surely something to be welcomed. If one's own experience of the use of power conditioning say, turns out to be different to another listeners, this is not a problem. Expectations, prejudices, preferences, equipment and environmental conditions, both natural and human-made, will affect what we hear and how we respond to that experience. Empirical studies are an important part of science, particularly if human perception is involved. If people are not as impressed with NCores as others have been, power conditioning has been suggested as something that could be tried to improve things. Nobody has to do this, and many vendors of power conditioners and fancy mains cables offer 'try before you buy'. I own, as yet unbuilt NCore NC400s BTW, so no anti-NCore axe to grind here.

[RCduck7]

I was told by one user of the Ncore's on his Super-V speakers he heard a bump somewhere in the mid bas band. He also missed some life and depth compared to other amps like a Joule Electra for instance. That said the Ncore's do sound very neutral and polished. Can anyone relate to that findings? Or maybe a case of a mismatch?? Or maybe he struck gold with Super-V/Joule match he made. I'm not saying who i got that info from but if he is reading this he is free to decide to comment or not.

[Phil]

In one way these amps proved to be just like every other digital amp out there in that they are really dependent on the power that you feed them.

On the back panel was one of the really cheap IEC connectors with the built in on off switches right on the connection. There was a cheap RCA to balanced adapter being used, and the binding posts looked really cheap. Just from my own experience I know there are a lot of gains to be had from the obvious upgrades.

After reading many, many reviews, it seems that these two points are very much worth considering as one listens to the Ncores for the first time or as it settles into your system for the long-term.  Some have done the before and after comparison with both of these - power and parts - and have found excellent results. 

Happy listening.

Phil

[Triode Pete]

Chris, aka Lonewolf42, was kind enough to bring over the tour pair of amps last Monday night & pick them up the next day (Tuesday). I hooked them up to my second system, a custom-made Tannoy 12" Gold-based system (~ 93 dB efficient). I listened to them for a brief period of time...
 
These are my impressions of the amps, in the order I experienced them...
1. Wow, the amps are small & lightweight (compared to the 300B SET monoblock amps they were temporarily replacing).
2. At start-up, the amps are quiet. They sound pretty good for Class D.
3. The gain on the amps was a lot less than I experienced on my 8 watt 300B SET monoblocks (Normal listening on the 300B's is ~ 10 o'clock; on the Ncore 400's ~ 12 o'clock on my preamp); I thought the NCore's would blow me out of the room.
4. I initially plugged them directly into the wall receptacles, listened to few tracks & then plugged them into a PI Audio Rev. B Buss;  I appeared to get a blacker background and a bit more gain & dynamics with the Rev. B... a good thing!
5. After they were warmed up for awhile, they sounded much better... more specifically;
6. Bass was very tight & articulate. On the Trombone Shorty song "Neph", the extremely fast bass drum double kick was clearly evident. On many systems I've heard, the bass drum double kick appears as a blended single note.
7. Midrange & vocals were there... on Bernadette Peters' "Blackbird", her voice was very palpable & lifelike.
8. Cymbals appeared to be a little recessed (less shimmer & decay) to what I was used to, but still pretty good.
9. The amps are very, very clean sounding... Clean & clear... very neutral sounding without evident flaws.

Lonewolf42 came over Tuesday night to retrieve the amps & we listened for awhile without any fatigue whatsoever to a variety of music (Classical, Jazz, New Wave, Rock, etc., etc.)...

Overall, these were the best, non-triode based amps I've had on my Tannoy system. No, they won't be replacing my custom built SET monoblocks with original Tango FX-50-3.5S Orient Core output trannies with Tung Sol round plate 6sn7 input & Sylvania 6sn7W driver tubes with Mullard 5AR4 rectifiers and Western Electric 300B output tubes. However, I really liked these amps...

Being a triode tube guy, I was very impressed with these amps. I think I'll probably build myself a pair and use them on those hot summer nights as well as outside without fear.

Thanks to Jason & Lonewolf42 for their kindness & generosity!

Cheers,
Pete

[satfrat]

Pete, you never mentioned what your preamp was (tube no doubt) and what source(s) were being used. Thanks.



Cheers,
Robin

[Triode Pete]

Pete, you never mentioned what your preamp was (tube no doubt) and what source(s) were being used. Thanks.



Cheers,
Robin

The custom-built preamp used was a Stereo Single Triode Linestage using a matched pair of RCA globe 171A tubes with dual mono tube regulated power supplies (Gen-Rad 1201-A). It's a pretty low gain preamp. The source was a Philips 963 SA Transport / SACD player feeding into a Eastern Electric DAC Plus with Dexa Discretes (Brimar T-Series 6067 tube used). Power cables all Triode Wire Labs ( ); interconnects were Groneberg Quattro Reference, digital cable was Black Cat Veloce. The 12" Tannoy Golds in custom cabinets have a nice, high quality bass response measured into the upper 20s (Hz)...

Cheers,
Pete