Hypex NCore NC400 - USA Tour Listening Impressions

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #460 on:** 12 Jul 2012, 11:02 am »

Quote from: serengetiplains on 12 Jul 2012, 05:42 am

My impressions are similar to yours, mj. For me, the Ncore excels in what class D amps seem consistently to do well, particularly in the way it reproduces midrange ambiance and decay and thus tone. I hear a continuity I quite adore, and in a degree to which I've not heard from other amplifier types. That said, and despite other things the Ncore does well, I find its presentation a little flat, and leaves me wanting more. It's as if the Ncore, like you said, drops the finer leading edges of the music---almost as if I'm listening through a cloth that veils high frequency decay, ambiance and subtle detail.

This is pretty close to my impression when I compared to my amps. The ncore is a good value but will need some work to have the top end I have with my amplifiers. I think Maxcast felt the top end was also missing something as well when we listened at my place with Tom's amps.

Srajan Ebaen · « **Reply #461 on:** 12 Jul 2012, 02:55 pm »

Not having heard the NCores for myself, here's a question for those who have: do you think these last observations regarding the subjective truncation of the finest decays could be a function of overdamping? Bruno's output impedance specs are some of (if not the) lowest in the industry and apparently linear across the bandwidth. Given that most speakers won't have been designed for that just because it's not been the norm to encounter such amplifiers... is it possible that such extremely low output impedance (which on paper would seem to be the holy grail) is perhaps not the best thing for small lightweight drivers like tweeters and some midranges?

Just a thought and question to those who've spent time with these amps

Letitroll98 · « **Reply #462 on:** 12 Jul 2012, 03:14 pm »

Quote from: Srajan Ebaen on 12 Jul 2012, 02:55 pm

Not having heard the NCores for myself, here's a question for those who have: do you think these last observations regarding the subjective truncation of the finest decays could be a function of overdamping? Bruno's output impedance specs are some of (if not the) lowest in the industry and apparently linear across the bandwidth. Given that most speakers won't have been designed for that just because it's not been the norm to encounter such amplifiers... is it possible that such extremely low output impedance (which on paper would seem to be the holy grail) is perhaps not the best thing for small lightweight drivers like tweeters and some midranges?

Just a thought and question to those who've spent time with these amps

Could very well be so. With Magneplanars I didn't feel like there was this emptiness in the upper registers and I really didn't have enough one on one time with dynamic speakers to make that judgement. There was an utter colorlessness to the amp that may leave some wanting. Other class D amps I've heard would be colored white, the Ncore was clear, some may want a bit of color added to their presentation. The lack of color, or interaction with the speaker, may be related to the ultra low impedance of the amps.

genjamon · « **Reply #463 on:** 12 Jul 2012, 03:31 pm »

This was exactly the question Eric Hider asked me the other day on the phone as I was arranging for a DAC update. He suggested one could tried adding some resistance on the outputs to see what kind of difference that would make. He and I were talking more about dynamics in general, but I think it might apply to the sparkle that has been mentioned here.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #464 on:** 12 Jul 2012, 04:00 pm »

Quote from: Srajan Ebaen on 12 Jul 2012, 02:55 pm

Not having heard the NCores for myself, here's a question for those who have: do you think these last observations regarding the subjective truncation of the finest decays could be a function of overdamping?

... is it possible that such extremely low output impedance (which on paper would seem to be the holy grail) is perhaps not the best thing for small lightweight drivers like tweeters and some midranges?

I think that this is a very plausible suggestion too. I definitely got the feeling that the bass on my VR-4s was ruled with an iron grip by the ncores. And I wonder if what some folks are reporting in the midrange (it being perhaps a bit lett fleshed out compared to other amps, as was my experience too), could also be a result of overdamping. Not that there aren't other potential explanations, but this one passes the sniff test at least.

So what we need now is a speaker designed with an amp with such low output impedance (= high damping factor)....

*Scotty* · « **Reply #465 on:** 12 Jul 2012, 06:04 pm »

Off topic speculation.

Scotty

jtwrace · « **Reply #466 on:** 12 Jul 2012, 06:07 pm »

This is now off topic. Please keep this thread for listenign impressions. Feel free to start a new thread if you wish.

Thanks.

JM · « **Reply #467 on:** 13 Jul 2012, 04:36 am »

Will there be another tour? I'd love to hear the NCores...

RCduck7 · « **Reply #468 on:** 13 Jul 2012, 10:48 am »

Maybe i missed this but did anyone compared the Ncore to a Class A solid state amp? I know dynamics in bass might suffer on some speakers with the low watts available in class A but i wonder if the Ncore can deliver or come near the sweetness of a class A. I'm considering a powerful amp for the low frequency driver of my speaker and class A for mids and highs the time being.

TomS · « **Reply #469 on:** 13 Jul 2012, 12:40 pm »

Quote from: RCduck7 on 13 Jul 2012, 10:48 am

Maybe i missed this but did anyone compared the Ncore to a Class A solid state amp? I know dynamics in bass might suffer on some speakers with the low watts available in class A but i wonder if the Ncore can deliver or come near the sweetness of a class A. I'm considering a powerful amp for the low frequency driver of my speaker and class A for mids and highs the time being.

Yes, JTWRace had Clayton M300 Class A amps which are about as good as it gets or at least right up there.

RCduck7 · « **Reply #470 on:** 15 Jul 2012, 12:21 am »

Quote from: TomS on 13 Jul 2012, 12:40 pm

Yes, JTWRace had Clayton M300 Class A amps which are about as good as it gets or at least right up there.

And...? How did it compare? Any link to the thread? A search revealed not much.

ted_b · « **Reply #471 on:** 15 Jul 2012, 12:35 am »

Quote from: RCduck7 on 15 Jul 2012, 12:21 am

And...? How did it compare? Any link to the thread? A search revealed not much.

?? AP's tour review, the last one in this thread, a few posts ago, is exactly that (Clayton Class A vs Ncore)! ?

studley · « **Reply #472 on:** 15 Jul 2012, 04:49 pm »

Quote from: TomS on 25 Apr 2012, 07:37 pm

I DIY'd an F3, F4 monoblocks, Aleph J, and a couple of F5's, all gone or disassembled now, so I can't compare directly but I spent a lot of time with each of them. The NCores might be a distant cousin sonically to the F5 (not the others), but from memory the NCores have more power, more body in the mids, and are just more real and natural sounding than any of those amps. They never seem to breathe very hard either.

Tom, I was very interested in your comments above as I'm a First Watt fan; I've heard an F3, own a pair of DIY F4 monos and have all the parts to build the F5X. What I particularly like in addition to the pure clean sound is the liquidity and palpability (these are the best words I can think of to convey what I mean) of the sound the F4s can deliver. By all accounts the F5 is even better, so the F5X should produce truly gorgeous music. So, against that background what I really want to know is do the Ncores produce that same liquidity / palpability ? (This assumes of course that you can identify and recall the sonic characteristics that I'm talking about!)

studley · « **Reply #473 on:** 15 Jul 2012, 05:33 pm »

And to srajan if you are reading this, although you don't actually come out and say it in your review of the FW SIT 1s, it's fairly clear you regard them as the best amps you have ever heard (taken it as given that you are using them with speakers that are happy with 10 wpc), so despite the huge difference in power I trust you will be comparing the quality of the sound of the ncore 1200 Atsah amps with the SITs?

TomS · « **Reply #474 on:** 15 Jul 2012, 08:25 pm »

Quote from: studley on 15 Jul 2012, 04:49 pm

Tom, I was very interested in your comments above as I'm a First Watt fan; I've heard an F3, own a pair of DIY F4 monos and have all the parts to build the F5X. What I particularly like in addition to the pure clean sound is the liquidity and palpability (these are the best words I can think of to convey what I mean) of the sound the F4s can deliver. By all accounts the F5 is even better, so the F5X should produce truly gorgeous music. So, against that background what I really want to know is do the Ncores produce that same liquidity / palpability ? (This assumes of course that you can identify and recall the sonic characteristics that I'm talking about!)

At this point it's probably just been too long with many other system changes as well. I definitely preferred the F5 to the F4 mono's I had, but it just ran out of steam.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #475 on:** 15 Jul 2012, 08:56 pm »

Put a pot with water on top of the First Watt amps and you should have lots of steam.

Freo-1 · « **Reply #476 on:** 15 Jul 2012, 09:19 pm »

Quote from: RCduck7 on 15 Jul 2012, 12:21 am

And...? How did it compare? Any link to the thread? A search revealed not much.

I think a better comparison for Class A amps against Ncore would be the Pass Labs XA series. The XA series is often cited by tube enthusiasts as sharing many of the best attributes with tubes.

Comparisons would be difficult at best, as the speakers used and the interaction with the room probably would provide much more of a factor than the actual amp itself. The best one can get is rough idea, enough to see if having the amps in question are worth going through the trouble to get and compare in your individual system (which or course is the only real way to work it out).

Speaking of First Watt, I had a M2, which is a wonderful sounding amp. However, after changing speakers (88 db/w), I had to get a XA 30.5, which has a LOT more headroom, and more neutral sounding overall. It’s VERY difficult to get better detail and overall sonic character than Class A.

studley · « **Reply #477 on:** 15 Jul 2012, 10:02 pm »

Quote from: Freo-1 link=topic=105310.msg1112101#msg1112101 date=

It’s VERY difficult to get better detail and overall sonic character than Class A.
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I absolutely agree: ALL the great sounding amplifiers I have heard to press (valve and SS) have been class A. Hence my question to Tom. So now I'm relying on Srajan to make the comparison, and he is in a very good position to do so.

zybar · « **Reply #478 on:** 15 Jul 2012, 10:15 pm »

Quote from: TomS on 15 Jul 2012, 08:25 pm

At this point it's probably just been too long with many other system changes as well. I definitely preferred the F5 to the F4 mono's I had, but it just ran out of steam.

I have had the XA30.5 and multiple First Watt clone amps in my current system at various times. While all were good amps, none could and did replace my Atma- Sphere amps. The Ncore amps are the first non-tube amp that might actually push the MA-1's out the door.

I have had the Ncore amps back in the system for a few weeks now and I continue to be impressed and very happy. The combination of a really good tube preamp (Atma-Sphere MP-1) with the Ncore amps provides a very nice balance of warm and depth, with detail and speed. It neither sounds lush or lean - just really well balanced!

George

Freo-1 · « **Reply #479 on:** 15 Jul 2012, 10:36 pm »

George, what speakers are/were you using while reviewing the various amps? To me, the speaker’s overall load plays a large part in one’s overall impressions.