[Phil]

Even the Ncore can't compete with _itties on a Spanish beach.

Hopefully, that will satisfy those who think everyone here is simply a fanboy.

[MaxCast]

I thought I got lucky and was going to have 5 nights (can't ship on weekends) with the Ncores but we missed the FedEx guy so I missed a day there.  Then Sunday got filled and not much listening on that last day of the stop in sunny SW Michigan.  But I did get plenty of time Thursday, Friday and Saturday.

Many thanks to Jason for sending these out on tour.  I am happy to be a part of it and here them in my own system.

I thought the Ncores had some strengths and weaknesses in my system.  I'm sure it was a synergy thing as the weaknesses could easily be cured by a few K in cable upgrades.    Nevertheless, there were two areas where the Ncores did not sound as good to me compared to my Stratos.  The first area was the mids and highs.  The mids seemed to be recessed a bit from what I enjoy and am accustomed to.  Maybe it was overshadowed by the powerful bass these little monsters put out.  The highs were ok but I would not call it spectacular.  I did not find them to have any silibance which I hate.  With that said I did find them to have good clarity.  They are articulate but maybe at the expense of lushness and romance I like in the mids.  I would assume a different preamp, tube and/or DAC could change this.  Speaking of preamps my Mapletree 2A did not have enough gain.  It just didn't drive the amps like the SS Audiorefinement PRE-5 that I also have.  The AR is actually a nice peamp as it held up nicely with other preamps I have auditioned in my price range.

The second area I noticed was the sound stage.  It didn't go as far outside the speakers as I get with the Stratos.  I measured speaker distances, made sure the GIK side panels were in their correct position, etc.  It was something I noticed on all days with many different CDs.

The two biggest strengths I enjoyed about the Ncores were the center stage and power.  I kept noticing the depth of the center stage with all types of music.  It had a layering and placement of instruments/voices that I will miss.
The second strength was the power.  The Salk HT-3's loved the power.  The bass was strong and good on low or higher volumes.  Dare I say too much sometimes?  No, probably a room mode.  I normally don't listen to music at 90dB peaking at 100 but I couldn't help myself.  It was a lot of fun and something I will always have in the back of my mind.  The boys and I were rockin! 
amps got a little warm but that was it.

Overall, what do I think of these amps?  If I were building a new system with inefficient speakers, had some diy skills and like loud music I would be all over these.  The power is there (maggie owners) and I believe the weaknesses can be improved upon with a little trial and error on preamp and DAC choices.  I think it would be hard to be for less than 2K.
As usual when I audition equipment I heard things I haven't heard before in recordings.  I believe this is because a) I forgot or b) you listen with audiophile ears vs. just listening to your favorite music.  All this was with my system and my ears, your system and ears will vary.

Thanks again to Jason.  You are an asset to the AC community.

[zybar]

I have been listening to my "new" Ncore amps for the past few hours and it is like welcoming home an old friend!

They sound just like they did during the tour and I am enjoying them across lots of different artists (Rush, Natalie Merchant, Nora Jones, Beastie Boys, Charlie Hunter, and Ben Harper to name a few).

I'll try and snap a picture later.

George

Here is a quick picture:





George

[Geardaddy]

I have been listening to my "new" Ncore amps for the past few hours and it is like welcoming home an old friend

Or a new friend that will replace an old friend (Atmas)?

[bhobba]

Hi Guys

This isn't part of your listening tour and I am out in Aus but you may be interested in a listening session I just completed with the NCores.

An acquaintance out here in Aus lent me some Ncores and a few hours ago popped them in my system with a NAD M51 as source and ML3 Reference as speakers. Here are some of my initial impressions.

Well how do they sound - clear, clean, pure and neutral - very neutral.  With the NAD 51 as source I heard the exact same setup with Mac 501's yesterday and know the sound of my NAKSA 100 very well.  First how do they compare to the Mac's - very well thank you very much.  Bass grip not quite as good - still pretty good mind you - but those Mac's have simply amazing bass grip.  They have a slightly harder sound with maybe a trace of glare - maybe - than the Mac's but the Mac's to me have a slighly tubey midrange and a slight veil - this doesn't have the veil - but have a slight hardness and etched character the Mac's lack and the midrange isn't quite as enjoyable.  The Mac's are better to listen to for long periods IMHO.  My Trafomatic Experience 2 300B SET totally clobers it for midrange divineness - but then again no amp I have heard touches it in that department - although the Arions come close.  It's not like the NAKSA 100 I have which the designer Hugh Dean has voiced to sound really good for long periods - but is not the last word in neutrality - and is more the type of amp you go - ahh - that's nice when you hear it - this amp isn't.  Its more the type of amp you go - hmmm - exactly what character does it have and you have to listen to it for a while to lock onto it and notice a few things like the slight hardness etc.  How does it compare to the Arion 500's I recently got which is the best (to my ears anyway) amp I have ever heard?  I will see if I can do a direct comparison at some future date but most certainly a comparison with my aquantances that have heard the Arion's is on the cards.  My view is the Arions simply sound real - this amp sounds slighly hard, etched and contrived in comparison.  How does it compare to the NAD C4390DD - the NAD has greater slam but sort of sounds a bit thicker for want of a better word.  But overall fed with the NAD M51 I would say they are about equal - just slightly different.

I hope to, when I have someone to give me a hand, be able to rig it up through my QOL Completion stage so we can check it out against my Bybeed up PDX DAC.  I will be taking it over to an acquaintance here in Aus  place, Rob's, tomorrow for comparison against his Spectron on his Ambiance Ribbons.

I will also give it a go with my Playback Designs MPD-3 a bit later - it is extremely good with DSD having a very realistic natural sound.

Overall this is a very very good amp - up there with some of the better amps I have heard.  If you prefer a highly neutral and accurate sound and are not worried it may not be relaxing to listen to for long periods then it could be just your ticket.

Thanks
Bill

[poseidonsvoice]

Bill,

Thanks for your review. I am glad you found that the Ncores are one of the more neutral amps that you have heard. That I believe, was the designers idea.

I do look forward to the comparison with the Arion 500. Did you actually compare it to the Trafomatic tube amp or was that from memory?

Anand.

[rascal]

Here is a quick picture:
George

Very nice May I know where you got the case/front plate?

[jtwrace]

This was posted on diy by Bruno regarding Bhobba's post.  I thought I'd post this as I found it very interesting in a few ways.


http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendors-bazaar/190434-hypex-ncore-463.html#post3076176

Thx Bill for the feedback.

Some background on why the NC400 sounds the way it does: it is always a dilemma whether an amp should be tuned for things like subjective bass control, sweet mids or not. One of the tricks a Mac does by design is to have a highish output impedance (because of the autoformer) which makes for a more liquid mid-range sound and then to add a subjective sense of bass control by allowing a slight THD rise in the top end. When things like those are really tastefully balanced, such an amp can really make life hard on a "straight wire" amp in a shootout. The signal actually comes out sounding nicer and more impressive than what went in. But on the other hand, I think that to make the greatest number of people happy, one can't afford to give an amp a sound of its own because the number of new fans is probably immediately offset by the number of people who don't like that particular tuning.

But it's tough to resist the occasional sonic touch-up. I can emulate the sound of pretty much any amp out there if I wanted. But so far I'm resisting. If ever I give in, it'll be obvious from the measurements and I hope someone calls me out on it...

Anyhow that's why I decided I actually wanted the NC400 to have this unvarnished, dead-pan delivery.

My respsonse that was posted on diy:

I'm sure some of the tweakers or recording guys would love that.  My Metric Halo LIO-8 has what they call "characters" for just this purpose.  You want tube sound, select it and it really does sound like tubes.  They have many different types too.


I'm happy you did too but as noted above so many people would love that tool probably.

[mr_bill]

Hi Guys

This isn't part of your listening tour and I am out in Aus but you may be interested in a listening session I just completed with the NCores.

An acquaintance out here in Aus lent me some Ncores and a few hours ago popped them in my system with a NAD M51 as source and ML3 Reference as speakers. Here are some of my initial impressions.

Well how do they sound - clear, clean, pure and neutral - very neutral.  With the NAD 51 as source I heard the exact same setup with Mac 501's yesterday and know the sound of my NAKSA 100 very well.  First how do they compare to the Mac's - very well thank you very much.  Bass grip not quite as good - still pretty good mind you - but those Mac's have simply amazing bass grip.  They have a slightly harder sound with maybe a trace of glare - maybe - than the Mac's but the Mac's to me have a slighly tubey midrange and a slight veil - this doesn't have the veil - but have a slight hardness and etched character the Mac's lack and the midrange isn't quite as enjoyable.  The Mac's are better to listen to for long periods IMHO.  My Trafomatic Experience 2 300B SET totally clobers it for midrange divineness - but then again no amp I have heard touches it in that department - although the Arions come close.  It's not like the NAKSA 100 I have which the designer Hugh Dean has voiced to sound really good for long periods - but is not the last word in neutrality - and is more the type of amp you go - ahh - that's nice when you hear it - this amp isn't.  Its more the type of amp you go - hmmm - exactly what character does it have and you have to listen to it for a while to lock onto it and notice a few things like the slight hardness etc.  How does it compare to the Arion 500's I recently got which is the best (to my ears anyway) amp I have ever heard?  I will see if I can do a direct comparison at some future date but most certainly a comparison with my aquantances that have heard the Arion's is on the cards.  My view is the Arions simply sound real - this amp sounds slighly hard, etched and contrived in comparison.  How does it compare to the NAD C4390DD - the NAD has greater slam but sort of sounds a bit thicker for want of a better word.  But overall fed with the NAD M51 I would say they are about equal - just slightly different.

I hope to, when I have someone to give me a hand, be able to rig it up through my QOL Completion stage so we can check it out against my Bybeed up PDX DAC.  I will be taking it over to an acquaintance here in Aus  place, Rob's, tomorrow for comparison against his Spectron on his Ambiance Ribbons.

I will also give it a go with my Playback Designs MPD-3 a bit later - it is extremely good with DSD having a very realistic natural sound.

Overall this is a very very good amp - up there with some of the better amps I have heard.  If you prefer a highly neutral and accurate sound and are not worried it may not be relaxing to listen to for long periods then it could be just your ticket.

Thanks
Bill

Bill,

Interesting you fed the NAD C390DD with the NAD M51.  Would it not be a better comparison to go M51 into NCore against NAD C390DD alone - isn't the M51 the same digital stage as the C390 has with the exception of adding another set of cables if you use the C390 with the M51?

The only reason I ask this is because of interest in the NAD products and not to dispute your claims.

[Rocket_Ronny]

Zybar - where did you get those cases? 


Rocket_Ronny

[Barry_NJ]

This was posted on diy by Bruno regarding Bhobba's post.  I thought I'd post this as I found it very interesting in a few ways.


http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendors-bazaar/190434-hypex-ncore-463.html#post3076176

Interesting, didn't Bob Carver do something similar (tuning his SS amp to sound like another mfr's tube amp) at an audio-show a number of years back?

[playntheblues]

+1 for Zybar where did you get those case's?

[jtwrace]

Zybar - where did you get those cases? 


Rocket_Ronny

+1 for Zybar where did you get those case's?

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=106336.msg1088558#msg1088558

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=106187.msg1104426#msg1104426

[Rocket_Ronny]

I knew you had lined up cases but did not know you had the cool faceplate.

Thanks,

Rocket_Ronny

[poseidonsvoice]

Interesting, didn't Bob Carver do something similar (tuning his SS amp to sound like another mfr's tube amp) at an audio-show a number of years back?

Yes. If you mean 27 years ago that is.

http://bobcarver.com/carver_bio.asp

Anand.

[Occam]

Interesting, didn't Bob Carver do something similar (tuning his SS amp to sound like another mfr's tube amp) at an audio-show a number of years back?

PV-

Yes. If you mean 27 years ago that is.
http://bobcarver.com/carver_bio.asp

and was also provided in his more recent Sunfire Signature Amplifiers via a set of 'Current Source' binding posts, which simply inserted 1 ohm resistors in series with the outputs

[doug s.]

This was posted on diy by Bruno regarding Bhobba's post.  I thought I'd post this as I found it very interesting in a few ways.


http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendors-bazaar/190434-hypex-ncore-463.html#post3076176


My response that was posted on diy:

i also find this wery interesting.  it seems to get at the dilemma of what is meant by "accuracy" - does it measure perfectly, and mimic the recording perfectly?  or does it sound more like real music? 

doug s.

[Rclark]

+ 1 for straight shot no chaser when it comes to amps. Give it to me raw baby. You got buffers and preamps for all that frilly "lush" tuning stuff.

[bhobba]

Thanks for your review. I am glad you found that the Ncores are one of the more neutral amps that you have heard. That I believe, was the designers idea. I do look forward to the comparison with the Arion 500. Did you actually compare it to the Trafomatic tube amp or was that from memory?

Hi Anand

Yea - based on a post repeated here from the designer that was indeed his idea.  Its neither good or bad - the idea of Hi Fi IMHO is to trick the brain into saying this is real - you know its not but you want your brain fooled.  Exactly what that takes varies from person to person.

I own a Traformatic Experience 2 and know that amp very very well.  Its midrange is truly magical - the best I have ever heard - colored as hell - but a joy to listen to.  That is the only area the NCore is not better than the Traf - in every other way the NCore is better.  But that midrange for many on the right type of music can trick the brain into suspending belief where the Ncores may not.  I remember a comparison I was at where the Traf was compared to Mac 501's on Dianna Krall and it simply blew the Mac's away but use say Rage Against The Machine and it will be a different story.

Sorry I couldn't do a direct comparison against the Arion 500's.  I ordered a pair and after a long wait being held up in Customs it finally arrived and I did get a chance to hear it with fellow audiophiles.  IMHO it is the best amp I have ever heard - it does not sound SS or Tubey - it simply sounds real.  But although I was the first person to order one here in Aus some others ordered them a bit later from the same guy that was kind enough to take the chance on getting them in for me.  He is glad he did - he too believes it is the best amp he ever heard but one of the other people that ordered one really wanted them ASAP and I was asked if he could have mine and I wait until that guys order arrives.  I agreed and will now need to wait for the new pair to come in which is expected to take a few weeks. Anyway I can assure you the Arions to my ears are better - they lack the slight hardness and other minor issues I found in the NCores - to my ears.  I will however see if a direct comparison to the Arions with fellow audiophiles present a bit further down the line.  Trouble is I only have the Ncores for three weeks - but may be able to get them a bit later for that comparison - but can't be certain.  The other thing of course is the Arions are MUCH more expensive.

Thanks
Bill

[bhobba]

Interesting you fed the NAD C390DD with the NAD M51.  Would it not be a better comparison to go M51 into NCore against NAD C390DD alone - isn't the M51 the same digital stage as the C390 has with the exception of adding another set of cables if you use the C390 with the M51? The only reason I ask this is because of interest in the NAD products and not to dispute your claims.

Hi Bill

Sorry for any confusion.  I fed the NAD C390DD with digital and not via the M51.  However the C390DD has exactly the same front end (as you correctly point out) as the M51 so we were comparing like to like. IMHO the C3900 is equally as good as the M51 Ncore combo - just a bit different - the NAD has dynamics that are startling while the Ncore has a more natural sound - the C390DD sounds a bit 'thick'.  Pick your poison - its personal preference which you like.

Thanks
Bill