[jtwrace]

Emile,
shielded mogami lead - is that supplied with the NCore modules?

Yes

[genjamon]

Yes

And it's already plugged into their connector.  They say what kind of connector it is, but I would be vary wary given my particular skill level with DIY trying to re-wire a new lead to that kind of connector.  It might be easier than it looks to my untrained eye, but might not be for the novice.

[mr_bill]

Well I am in the novice category, so I think I'll leave well enough alone.

[poseidonsvoice]

Well I am in the novice category, so I think I'll leave well enough alone.

Not just you, but a bunch of advanced diy hobbyists are doing the same. When it sounds in the uber category and it a'int broken well...

Anand.

[jtwrace]

Well I am in the novice category, so I think I'll leave well enough alone.

You can see all the wires in this post:  http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=106187.msg1087126#msg1087126

[zybar]

Did you get them yet?

No.

Turned out that there were logistical issues and I need to re-order them.  Hopefully it won't take too long.

George

[genjamon]

I removed all inputs to test the noise. With no inputs, there was a little hiss from the tweeter still, but nothing at all from the woofer. Only the slightest hiss with my ear right next to the tweeter.

With DAC connected directly to amps, but nothing playing, the woofer hum and tweeter buzz was way louder. I believe the noise is coming from the DAC. It is attenuated with the preamp to a very minor level that is not audible from listening position.

[roscoeiii]

I removed all inputs to test the noise. With no inputs, there was a little hiss from the tweeter still, but nothing at all from the woofer. Only the slightest hiss with my ear right next to the tweeter.

With DAC connected directly to amps, but nothing playing, the woofer hum and tweeter buzz was way louder. I believe the noise is coming from the DAC. It is attenuated with the preamp to a very minor level that is not audible from listening position.

Thanks for that update.

[poseidonsvoice]

I removed all inputs to test the noise. With no inputs, there was a little hiss from the tweeter still, but nothing at all from the woofer. Only the slightest hiss with my ear right next to the tweeter.

With DAC connected directly to amps, but nothing playing, the woofer hum and tweeter buzz was way louder. I believe the noise is coming from the DAC. It is attenuated with the preamp to a very minor level that is not audible from listening position.

Wow. Thanks for the update. I am surprised given the pedigree of your dac. Did you have the volume all the way down or up on your preamp when you tested it with the preamp?

Best,
Anand.

[Rclark]

Well, they do say amps of this caliber expose your upstream... looks like this is an example! I'm praying my gear will be good enough.

[roscoeiii]

But lets also remember that this is with ear to speaker, and a mighty efficient speaker at that.

[genjamon]

My tranquility SE is from late 2010, with no servicing since that time. Manufacturer does offer a small cost output stage upgrade, and I'm interested in trying that. I also wonder if it isn't the power, as I'm not using much power conditioning, and what I am using is possibly doing as much harm as good.

Yes, the preamp attenuates the noise. My initial noise comments were based on a preamp volume for a reasonable music listening volume - high 70's or low 80's db average volume. That's what I was listening at before I put my head up to the drivers.

Anyway, the NCores on their own are very very quiet.

[ChrisPa]

As far as my  rolled off comment goes, I found it to do justice to all my digital music, it made all those highs less pronounced ( when comparing to other SS amps).  Less fake fizzle and more natural refined highs is what I hear.   Words describing what I hear is not my forte.

Rob S.

My feeling is that these amps have such low hf distortion/IM distortion that they don't artificially accentuate the treble - which is as you described. If they are put into a system which has been tuned to control extreme treble then they may sound a little 'rolled off'. Really they're just 'clean'

[hifial]

First I would like to apologize for taking so long to post my listening impressions of Jason's Ncore amps. I had the chance to hear the amps in several other systems and my own. Unfortunately just for a few hours in each system. The systems and the impressions are as follows.

1) Letitroll98: Dan was gracious in allowing myself, fellow audiophile and friend Kevin, and Barry to hear the amps in his system.
2) Barry_NJ: Barry was very gracious for inviting Kevin and I to hear them at his house that same night.
3) Occam: Paul was extremely gracious for allowing Barry, Kevin and I to hear the amps at his house.
4) mjosef: And Martin went out of his way by allowing me the chance to hear the amps in my system.
5) hifial: Finally my system; my system is as follows: Speakers: B&W 802D (first generation)-Amps: Nuforce Reference 18 Mono Blocks-Source: PS Audio Perfectwave Transport and computer based music server by I2S and Ethernet cables to PS Audio Perfectwave Bridge-Preamp: PS Audio Perfectwave DAC MK II- Cables: Synergistic Research Galileo Universal Interconnect (balanced) and Speaker (bi-wired) Cells with Basik Cables-Vibration Control: Finite Elemente Ceraball MKII (amps) and Cerapuc (DAC +Transport + power conditioning)-Power Conditioning: Synergistic Research Power Cell 10 SE MK II with Tesla SE Precision AC power cord.

Now for some reason the Nuforce and my Synergistic cabling was not playing nice so I had a fellow Club member, Igor Kuznetsoff of K Works, who does audio design and consulting work and builds some great cabling, bring over some of his. Unfortunately I forgot to tell him to bring bi-wire speaker cables. So we bridged the B&W's posts and used Igor's for the balanced interconnect too.

First, I MUST STRESS that the Ncore sounded BETTER STRAIGHT INTO THE WALL!! In some cases MUCH BETTER, but always better. Now maybe there is a power conditioner out there that MIGHT improve the sound of the Ncore but COMPARE to make sure. As it sounded better into the wall at Paul's, then it will most likely sound better into the wall every time. The sound got closed in, got a little bright, noise was added in degrees from system to system. I did not bother trying it with my power conditioner but I wish I had the time to compare.

I am not going to describe what I heard in each individual system but rather the overall change, both +/-, if any, in varying degrees.

I have been trying to come up with one word that describes the Ncore. It has been difficult, at least for me. If I say it sounds CLEAN, someone might also think sterile, and it is NOT. Or someone might think bright and again it is NOT. If I say distortion-less. That might cover it but it has so much more. So in a few words; Clean, no distortion and I mean the least of any amp I have ever heard, musically engaging, natural tone and harmonics, fast transients, dynamic, to the point were you can turn the volume way down and still hear the WHOLE MUSIC, it does not close in at any volume, loud or soft, and I can not think of any amp I have heard that can do the whole volume range and not distort in some way. Did I say it has no DISTORTION. It really lets the music flow and be music. Does this mean that a bad recording will sound awful? Not really, for I heard bad recordings sound better. The Ncore's also separate the mass of instruments in an orchestra and a band in a very natural way. Some amps "rip" the instruments in a wide unnatural way while others, just a solid mass. And this was under not ideal conditions in any of the systems that I heard them in. The first and foremost was plugging them straight into the wall. At Barry's he had to use a three receptacle extension cord (12 gauge, 3 conductor, no switches, fuses or filters). Now Barry my disagree with me but I believe if he could have plugged  them straight into the wall it would have made an improvement. We also found out later at my house that when we tried the Finite Elemente Ceraball footers it made an improvement. Also after market power cords. On my system the B&W 802D's love to be bi-wired and we had to use the jumpers in order to use the cables Igor brought. I did not realize it till it was to late but we could have used my Synergistic which are bi-wire. I had mismatched power cords. And we used the footers near the end of the listen. Yet these amps held their own and then some. Treble was extended but not bright, harsh, brittle or dry and tonally correct . Base was deep, tight, controlled and tonally correct. Mids were just, right, like the treble and base. The sound stage is wide and deep but not in your face or up on stage with the musicians. In fact I think some might mistake this and think the sound stage is not as deep and wide. But over time they might see the difference for what it is. When you are at a live performance you are best not in your face or on stage to hear the music at its best. You can hear so much detail that you missed before because they are so QUITE. A lot of amps can emphasis one thing or another but the Ncore is evenhanded from top to bottom. Paul played a track, which I can not remember the name, of which it had a instrument that Paul said is very difficult to reproduce in a lifelike way. I wish Paul would comment on that track and how well the Ncore did once he got his speakers fixed.   

I love how some people are comparing them to used amps that when new, cost in todays dollars, significantly more then these amps. Lets say these amps cost $1,600 to $1,700, with everything, as monos. You would need to spend from 4 to 7 times that on a new amp that could compete IMHO. And I think in most cases these amps win.

Now as good as these amps are not everyone will enjoy the sound they DO NOT MAKE. Which is fine. Like styles of music, some people like jazz and others like country. 

I think I have come up with one word to describe the Ncore amps. TRUTHFUL. And like the truth, some people "can't handle the truth". I can not wait to hear the NC1200 and see what that can bring over the NC400.

Well that is it for now. If I remember or think of anything else I will post it.

 

[Rclark]

 Nice review. bruno has hinted recently that really the NC400 isn't giving anything up, other than some watts, compared to the nc1200. In fact, it might be the other way around, but he said he doesn't prefer one over the other.

 Also astonishing is the oft repeated fact: you do not need power conditioning, in fact power conditioning worsens the sound. that's amazing.

 Two birds, one stone.

[Barry_NJ]

One small correction Al, the extension cord we used at my place was not a 'power strip'. Just a 12 gauge, 3 conductor, 3 receptacle, extension cord, with no switches, fuses, or other circuitry. And yes I agree, eliminating it very well could have improved the sound another degree

[hifial]

Hi Barry. Yes, that is why I put "type". I will put the specific type in its place. By the way, Could you tell me the name of the Johnny Cash CD we listened to that night? It would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[Barry_NJ]

Al, the disc was: Johnny Cash "American 4: The Man Comes Around"

[hifial]

Thanks Barry and thank you for giving me the correct type of extension cord.

[Occam]

......
 A lot of amps can emphasis one thing or another but the Ncore is evenhanded from top to bottom. Paul played a track, which I can not remember the name, of which it had a instrument that Paul said is very difficult to reproduce in a lifelike way. I wish Paul would comment on that track and how well the Ncore did once he got his speakers fixed.   
.....

I think that track was from Balkan Beat Box's 'Nu Med' album, specifically track 4- BBBeat, the glory and terror of a Turkish Jannisairy Military Marching Drum, Cymbal, Bell and Oud band bearing down on you shouldn't be missed. IMO, the hardest thing to get right in a recording is the sound of multiple small bells and tambourines. Or it could have been Herbie Hancock's Watermellon Man, with it well recorded tambourine throughout. The attack and decay of  'sleigh' bells and tambourine make strong demands on phase and harmonic presentation. To be honest, I'm unsure how much this is a test of amplifier quality rather than cabling, connectors and vibration isolation. Regardless, IMO, a system can be evaluated on a macro level on its ability to play loud coherently 'its got a good beat and you can dance to it' and on a micro level, do tambourines and sleigh bells sound like real tambourines and sleigh bells...

FWIW,
Paul