How close is your system to the "real" sound?

django11 · « **on:** 24 Mar 2012, 10:50 pm »

I went to a client/friend's today who just bought a Fazioli grand piano. He got the piano for about half off the asking price. It cost him 130,000$ tax included ( the generous dealer even threw in a free tuning

).

My friend played a bit for me and the spouse. Both of us were moved to tears by the sound. I don't even know what he was playing, I think he mentioned Tchaikovsky...

I have a decent system, at least it is better than what anyone I know personally has. It is not even in the ballpark compared to the sound of this piano...

JLM · « **Reply #1 on:** 24 Mar 2012, 11:28 pm »

Impressive cost for the piano, so I assume it's really good, perfectly tuned, must have been in a wonderful setting, and your friend really knows how to play. Most of the piano recordings were done with less impressive pianos in studios or huge halls (neither would be as ideal I'd imagine as your friend's place).

Live, unamplified sound is the only true acid test for audio IMO. One that no one I know of has equaled (Big B from VMPS has tried some demos at audiofest - gutsy to even try). When you think about it, the purpose of the audio system is to remind you (provide clues) of the original performance, not necessarily make a perfect replication. The rest of the replication comes from your mind/imagination.

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #2 on:** 25 Mar 2012, 01:54 am »

Some UK hall are giving preferences to the Fazioli in detriment of the traditional Steinway, by the 3 metres long from the Italian.

Much years ago I read a Robert Harley interview with the LINN founder, Mr.Ivor S.Tiefenbrun:
RH: How many per cent do you think a sound system reach from the real music??
Ivor: 10 per cent max.

TONEPUB · « **Reply #3 on:** 25 Mar 2012, 01:57 am »

Perhaps with a Linn system....

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #4 on:** 25 Mar 2012, 02:27 am »

Quote from: FULLRANGEMAN on 25 Mar 2012, 01:54 am

Some UK hall are giving preferences to the Fazioli in detriment of the traditional Steinway, by the 3 metres long from the Italian.

Much years ago I read a Robert Harley interview with the LINN founder, Mr.Ivor S.Tiefenbrun:
RH: How many per cent do you think a sound system reach from the real music??
Ivor: 10 per cent max.

Word. And then there are multiple kinds of music a speaker has to produce. A point source speaker may serve closely miked vocals or individual instruments better than a large panel speaker but will shrink an orchestra. I listen to orchestral music at lower volumes so I can rationalize that I am hearing from the back of the hall, where I would most likely be sitting, anyway, and so its a compromise I can live with.

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #5 on:** 25 Mar 2012, 02:38 am »

Now with SACDs and music servers, I wonder how much we are in the way to the Absolute Sound?? (rs rs rs, seems was a pun).

Whitese · « **Reply #6 on:** 25 Mar 2012, 02:52 am »

There is a difference in producing the sound compared to recording it...I find it a bit futile to compare a world class piano with reproduction...just be happy to get close enough...

S Clark · « **Reply #7 on:** 25 Mar 2012, 02:55 am »

Many years back I've played 9 ft. Baldwins and Steinways in concert halls, and I've never heard a speaker get all of it right. The GR-Research V2 comes scarily close in the lowest two octaves, but getting the mids and uppers right is just so hard to do. My LS9's do a very good job overall, but it's not the same as "real". Now with an orchestra, the LS9s can create a very convincing illusion- but the girl and the guitar can sometimes be 6 ft wide. It all depends on what you are asking the speaker to do.

Scott

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #8 on:** 25 Mar 2012, 03:02 am »

I already go to a local jazz club where a acoustic bass, drums, sax and e-guitar combo, sounded bad.
I was unable to follow the music due people traffic and talk, how women talk after the first drink.

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #9 on:** 25 Mar 2012, 03:06 am »

Quote from: S Clark on 25 Mar 2012, 02:55 am

Many years back I've played 9 ft. Baldwins and Steinways in concert halls, and I've never heard a speaker get all of it right. The GR-Research V2 comes scarily close in the lowest two octaves, but getting the mids and uppers right is just so hard to do. My LS9's do a very good job overall, but it's not the same as "real". Now with an orchestra, the LS9s can create a very convincing illusion- but the girl and the guitar can sometimes be 6 ft wide. It all depends on what you are asking the speaker to do.

Scott

but the girl and the guitar can sometimes be 6 ft wide.
Looks good, I like speakers with huge sound stage, some complaint it is larger than life, but I like it;

Tyson · « **Reply #10 on:** 25 Mar 2012, 04:08 am »

Quote from: S Clark on 25 Mar 2012, 02:55 am

Many years back I've played 9 ft. Baldwins and Steinways in concert halls, and I've never heard a speaker get all of it right. The GR-Research V2 comes scarily close in the lowest two octaves, but getting the mids and uppers right is just so hard to do. My LS9's do a very good job overall, but it's not the same as "real". Now with an orchestra, the LS9s can create a very convincing illusion- but the girl and the guitar can sometimes be 6 ft wide. It all depends on what you are asking the speaker to do.

Scott

You gotta try the V2's fully active, the mids and highs are amazing. In fact I'd say on my v2's, the mids/highs are better than the bass!

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #11 on:** 25 Mar 2012, 04:22 am »

I know I'd like to hear your active V2's, Ty. I'm thinkin that's one of the designs that can do just about everything well.

Elizabeth · « **Reply #12 on:** 25 Mar 2012, 04:28 am »

I would rephrase that question to: How close is my system to 'real' with certain superior recordings?

Just tonight i was listening to a live recording and was pleasantly suprised how natural the drum kit sounded. The drums were clear, the cymbals perfect. Unusual.
Joshua Redman Quartet Spirit of the Moment Live at the Village Vanguard.
The best part is I paid $2 for the two disc CD set.

S Clark · « **Reply #13 on:** 25 Mar 2012, 04:36 am »

Quote from: Tyson on 25 Mar 2012, 04:08 am

You gotta try the V2's fully active, the mids and highs are amazing. In fact I'd say on my v2's, the mids/highs are better than the bass!

Tyson,
Interesting. I've followed most of Danny's designs over the years, hearing many in prototype stage. Of all of them, the V series has evolved the most since it's first incarnation. The servo bass has always been at or near the peak of state of the art. It's the mids and lower treble that have needed and made the most advances. Although they have come a long way, I'm not sure that it has caught up to the column of Neo8s in my line sources.

I've heard the V2, but not with an active crossover. I know you have logged enough hours in front of the SuperV to know that there is a significant difference between what the Emminence woofers in the V2 can do vs. the Rythmic servo drivers in the SuperV. Even my LS9s can't quite catch that realism. Perhaps I can hear what your active crossover can do one day... What part of the world are you in?

Scott

Tyson · « **Reply #14 on:** 25 Mar 2012, 05:15 am »

Jim and Scott - you are both welcome to drop by anytime! I'm in Denver, CO.

The V2's bass absolutely does not match the bass of the Super V's, but then again, what does?

S Clark · « **Reply #15 on:** 25 Mar 2012, 06:16 am »

Quote from: Tyson on 25 Mar 2012, 05:15 am

Jim and Scott - you are both welcome to drop by anytime! I'm in Denver, CO.

The V2's bass absolutely does not match the bass of the Super V's, but then again, what does?

There are times when I think that the LS9's can run with the bass of the superV or perhaps exceed it- if the music is super busy- full orchestral, especially in crescendo. They both reach down to extreme low depths with speed unmatched by anything else that I have heard. Even when at high volume, each individual woofer is simply loafing along- very low distortion and extremely fast recovery. But when you simplify the music... back to that 9 ft grand playing solo... the servos can't be matched.

Denver.... That would be a nice ride on my Goldwing this summer. What about coming down to the LSAF? It's small, but in easier to get your head around it vs. the RMAF.

django11 · « **Reply #16 on:** 25 Mar 2012, 12:49 pm »

I can't find the V2s on Danny's site. Is that the 1000$ range model?

django11 · « **Reply #17 on:** 25 Mar 2012, 01:04 pm »

Quote from: jimdgoulding on 25 Mar 2012, 02:27 am

Word. And then there are multiple kinds of music a speaker has to produce. A point source speaker may serve closely miked vocals or individual instruments better than a large panel speaker but will shrink an orchestra. I listen to orchestral music at lower volumes so I can rationalize that I am hearing from the back of the hall, where I would most likely be sitting, anyway, and so its a compromise I can live with.

I agree on the types of music. My system does well on a lot of stuff. Vocals are stunning.

I agree also on the volume of the orchestra in the back of the hall. When I was younger I had probably listened to classical stuff for thousands of hours before I heard a live concert. As I had always listened at loud levels I wasn't impressed with the real thing. I had the same experience at my first live opera recently. From where I was sitting my system would have no problem beating the crap out of those voices

. Five feet away from an opera singer, as I have been twice, my system loses easily...

rollo · « **Reply #18 on:** 25 Mar 2012, 03:01 pm »

Closer than ever before. Execpt for the sheer force of a full Orchestra tonality, hatmonic structure and now dimension. Is it real NO . Small Jazz groups , vocals, Acoustic guitar are very convincing. The drum kit on the sheffield Drum and Track record is really close except for the again sheer dynamic weight and dynamics. The rim shots and cymbal work is as good as it gets for my ears.
It was the addition of the BSG qol that tied the knot. Before the Qol as good as I thought it was it was lacking dimension and dynamics. No longer. This device changed my world of listening.

System: Lector CDP 7TL CDP, Kuzma StobiS TT with 12" VTA arm, Goldenote Boboli HOMC cart, Linn LP12 [ for mono] Loesch & Weisner Preamp, Custom Cyber 211 mono blocks with NOS RCA tubes, Pipedream speakers, dual 10" Fried transmission line subs, Sunfire sub [ rear], Bryston 10B sub crossover, BSG Qol, Gronenberg cabling throughout, Triode Wire Labs PC throughout, PIAudio Uberbuss.
Diclaimer, we are dealers for PIAudio, BSG, Kuzma and TWL. However this is my personal system. This is not an Ad , just my personal experience. If an issue please remove.

charles

django11 · « **Reply #19 on:** 25 Mar 2012, 03:57 pm »

Quote from: rollo on 25 Mar 2012, 03:01 pm

Closer than ever before. Execpt for the sheer force of a full Orchestra tonality, hatmonic structure and now dimension. Is it real NO . Small Jazz groups , vocals, Acoustic guitar are very convincing. The drum kit on the sheffield Drum and Track record is really close except for the again sheer dynamic weight and dynamics. The rim shots and cymbal work is as good as it gets for my ears.
It was the addition of the BSG qol that tied the knot. Before the Qol as good as I thought it was it was lacking dimension and dynamics. No longer. This device changed my world of listening.

System: Lector CDP 7TL CDP, Kuzma StobiS TT with 12" VTA arm, Goldenote Boboli HOMC cart, Linn LP12 [ for mono] Loesch & Weisner Preamp, Custom Cyber 211 mono blocks with NOS RCA tubes, Pipedream speakers, dual 10" Fried transmission line subs, Sunfire sub [ rear], Bryston 10B sub crossover, BSG Qol, Gronenberg cabling throughout, Triode Wire Labs PC throughout, PIAudio Uberbuss.
Diclaimer, we are dealers for PIAudio, BSG, Kuzma and TWL. However this is my personal system. This is not an Ad , just my personal experience. If an issue please remove.

charles

Not an issue with me.

What is a BSG Qol?

W