[rklein]

This topic absolutely shows the difference between audiophiles and professional musicians.  ESPECIALLY CLASSICAL MUSICIANS.  I consider myself a hybrid of sorts.  While a student at The Curtis Institute of Music in Philadelphia, I was waaaaaay past the audio curve of my fellow students.  In 1977, I had a technics TT, a Nakamichi 500 Cassette Deck, a Luxman receiver (still have the Nak and the Luxman) along with Cizek speakers.  While I enjoyed my system immensely, I also know that if I wanted to really experience music, all I had to do was call up some of my friends and approximately an hour later, we were playing chamber music by Mozart, Brahms, Beethoven, Mendelssohn etc , etc, etc….  Now I won’t go into what type of influence we might have been under at the time…  I am just saying that 90% of all classical musicians that I know have cheap to downright shitty audio systems and could care less.

I was practicing 5 hours a day, along with orchestra, chamber music, recital, opera orchestra, etc rehearsals.  In other words, not only listening to live music but being in the “thick of it”.

One can try all they might and will NOT be able to reproduce the sound of a live performance(hopefully we never will).  All you need to do is go to a production of Tchaikovsky’s Nutcracker Ballet.  Many ballet companies have cut back and decided to not hire an orchestra but use “canned” music due to budget restraints.  Some of you probably have heard the ballet both ways and would certainly agree that “there ain’t no comparison”!(Just ask all the children, who would go to the front of the orchestra pit to see all the instruments only to see some dude with a CD player)

The same thing is happening with Broadway shows, especially the travelling ones.  You walk down to the front of the theater and you see three humans in the pit and another in front of a huge mixing board.  Again, not quite the same as live flesh and bone playing instruments.

I am right there with you my audiophile brothers and sisters.  Over the years, my wallet has become much lighter due to this hobby.  Two years ago, I was able to hear Mike Galusha's system out in Colorado.  I loved conversing with Mike and also listening to a very well thought out audio system.  I have to say his rig was heads and shoulders better than what I had going.  Recently, I had the pleasure of hearing TedB’s audio system.  It was f_ _king amazing!!  In hearing Ted talk and explain all of the work and hours he has put into his system was definitely inspiring.  The dynamics of Ted’s setup was beautiful to listen to.  Was it over the top??  Nope.
Was it like playing in the orchestra when we are performing Mahler Symphonies, Stravinsky’s Rite of Spring or most any Shostakovich Symphony?  Nope.  HOWEVER, both Mike's and Ted’s systems were incredibly good in the sense of taking me to a different kind of place.  Ted doesn’t know it yet, but I intend to “return the favor” and get him tickets for some of next season’s performances of the orchestra that I play in. 

In my humble opinion, one needs that healthy mix of going and being part of a live performance, and BTW, being in the audience makes you part of that “live” experience, as well as trying to get that “audio sound” that floats your boat.  For some of us, it is trying to replicate the live experience.  For others, it may be something entirely different.  What I do know, is that when you get to that place, it can be very rewarding.

Regards,

Randy

[paul canady]

Recorded music will never sound like the real thing but some systems can get close. Especially in the vocal area. It seems that the high frequency area is more of a struggle than anything else. This is the reason why I will be trying out the top line RAAL tweeter in a speaker that has taken 7 months to build. I am pretty sure it doesn't take 7 months to actually build but this is the wait time so far.
  My system can fool friends as they say " that sounds real" but in reality I know better.

[rklein]

Recorded music will never sound like the real thing but some systems can get close. Especially in the vocal area.

I agree with the above.  Probably the reason for this is when you hear vocalists in the popular genre; ie - pop, rock, jazz, etc., they are almost always using amplification.

Not only is a symphony orchestra a massive sound to try and reproduce it is entirely accoustical.

Randy

[simoon]

I am just saying that 90% of all classical musicians that I know have cheap to downright shitty audio systems and could care less.

This is not exclusive to just classical musicians.

My uncle is a well known jazz pianist (played with Harry James), writer, arranger, etc and he always had crappy systems. Every time I go to his house, he always has me fixing something on his system. I tried several times to get him to get a budget system that would sound much better, but he wouldn't do it.

incredibly good in the sense of taking me to a different kind of place.

That's about the best that can be hoped for.

If I can be transported into the music and forget about the audio chain, I am a happy listener.

In my humble opinion, one needs that healthy mix of going and being part of a live performance, and BTW, being in the audience makes you part of that “live” experience, as well as trying to get that “audio sound” that floats your boat.  For some of us, it is trying to replicate the live experience.  For others, it may be something entirely different.  What I do know, is that when you get to that place, it can be very rewarding.

This ^

[Devil Doc]

Well, according to my hound, pretty damn close. I put on my bird song LP to the Virginia Rail cut and the dog went nuts looking for that bird.

Doc

[cheap-Jack]

post deleted.

[mgalusha]

In my humble opinion, one needs that healthy mix of going and being part of a live performance, and BTW, being in the audience makes you part of that “live” experience, as well as trying to get that “audio sound” that floats your boat.  For some of us, it is trying to replicate the live experience.  For others, it may be something entirely different.  What I do know, is that when you get to that place, it can be very rewarding.

I am with you on that. A couple of weeks ago I went to a string quartet performance and had an amazing seat, a benefit of having a wife who works at the hall, and it's truly amazing what four strings can manage, let alone an entire orchestra. There was only a small crowd but the intimacy with the musicians and other audience members was palpable, everyone who was there really wanted to be there, so cool. The lead violinist even made a point of telling folks with the "cheap seats" to move in and sit where they liked, really encouraged everyone to get involved. It's that sort of interaction that simply can't be captured or reproduced. BTW, thanks for the kind words Randy, I think you would find it somewhat improved today. 

[Rclark]

 I enjoy the symphony, but the problem is you have to get dressed up for it, which I find a bit stale. I wish you could just go and enjoy the music without putting on airs.

[cheap-Jack]

Hi.

(1) I am just saying that 90% of all classical musicians that I know have cheap to downright shitty audio systems and could care less.

(2) I was practicing 5 hours a day, along with orchestra, chamber music, recital, opera orchestra, etc rehearsals.  In other words, not only listening to live music but being in the “thick of it”.

(1) My elder son started his Yamaha keyboard lessons when he was only 5.
     He passed his grade 10 theory+practice in our city's Royal Conservatory of
     Music when he was 18 before he entered university for a professional non-
    musical discipline.

    Though he is not a performing musician like you, he practices all the time
    at home & plays in his church. What I find it strange is:- he never owns 
    any HiFi. He still listens to his music from his PC. That's all.

    Yet he is a 'perfect pitch'. He can size up what key the music is being in my sound system in split second - never fail!

    One time I tested him again & it took him 2 second to tell me the right key 
    of the music being played. He explained the music changed key momentarily!

(2) Thre is nite-&-day difference sonically between listening in the "thick" of the performance & listening as an audience down the stage. Totally different
ballgame, my friend.

My sorta 'designated' sweet spot in a concert hall is 14th row centre. What's is yours?

c-J
   

[TheChairGuy]

Try as I might and have, digital hasn't approximated live sound for me.  I'm up for more trials and it has gotten better over time (and at lower costs), but it still fails to inspire or raise any goosebumps.

I've gone to several (un-amplified) concerts in the past 7+ years since returning to vinyl.  Using an old JVC direct drive deck, with removeable headshells, I have MANY cartridges mounted on separate headshells....I have literally had my turntable spinning within 20 minutes of leaving the concert to compare.  I've tried Audio-Technicas, Denons, Ortofons, ADC, Grados, London Decca and Pickering.  Various price points moving coils, magnets and irons, high and low output....pretty much the gamut.

With vinyl, except on those cartridges least worthy of my listening time....more than half get to the soul of the music where the musicians sound like they are there.  Of those, only the Grado's give me goosebumps and transport me to the venue itself.  Over and over again this has occurred to me.

I realize this is not scientific at all....but, it's only the Grado's that transform my small-ish listening into a full out concert hall.  I don't make any money shilling for Grado, it's simply been my experience time after time the past several years. I appreciate a lot about the various facets of performance of the other cartridges, but it's only the Grado that carries me to some other location when I'm listening to it.

So - I'm hooked on Grados now - for the pure enjoyment of the music.   

[Freo-1]

Try as I might and have, digital hasn't approximated live sound for me.  I'm up for more trials and it has gotten better over time (and at lower costs), but it still fails to inspire or raise any goosebumps.

I've gone to several (un-amplified) concerts in the past 7+ years since returning to vinyl.  Using an old JVC direct drive deck, with removeable headshells, I have MANY cartridges mounted on separate headshells....I have literally had my turntable spinning within 20 minutes of leaving the concert to compare.  I've tried Audio-Technicas, Denons, Ortofons, ADC, Grados, London Decca and Pickering.  Various price points moving coils, magnets and irons, high and low output....pretty much the gamut.

With vinyl, except on those cartridges least worthy of my listening time....more than half get to the soul of the music where the musicians sound like they are there.  Of those, only the Grado's give me goosebumps and transport me to the venue itself.  Over and over again this has occurred to me.

I realize this is not scientific at all....but, it's only the Grado's that transform my small-ish listening into a full out concert hall.  I don't make any money shilling for Grado, it's simply been my experience time after time the past several years. I appreciate a lot about the various facets of performance of the other cartridges, but it's only the Grado that carries me to some other location when I'm listening to it.

So - I'm hooked on Grados now - for the pure enjoyment of the music.

 
I’ve had the complete opposite experience.  Although I also attend several unamplified concerts each year, the only medium that EVEN gets close is SACD multi channel playback with a Modwright modified Oppo spinner.  Vinyl does not (to me) even come close, it’s only two channel, dynamic limited, more noise, you name it.
 
Some of the more recent classical SACD offerings at least get a bit closer to replicating the concert hall.  Now, in order to get this level of playback, had to get all Legacy speakers, which are very efficient, do not require a subwoofer, and employs both tweeters and super tweeters.  All Legacy speakers are powered by rebuilt/restored Threshold Class A amps, and a Classe SSP that employs discrete stages (no op amps in the playback chain).  All equipment is powered via a separated dedicated source.
 
As they say, it's "Horses for Courses"   

[Doublej]

Depending on the situation anywhere between 1% and 99%.

1% when listening in a traditional setup facing the speakers. I have yet to hear any two channel system that doesn't totally suck relative to 'real' sound. Why? Because when you move your head real and reproduced sound behave very different. There's no being fooled.

However if I am in a separate room from where the system is located it can be up to 99% ''real'. In this situation is depends on what's playing. It can sound very real, like there is a band playing in the other room. Go figure. 

[Freo-1]

Depending on the situation anywhere between 1% and 99%.

1% when listening in a traditional setup facing the speakers. I have yet to hear any two channel system that doesn't totally suck relative to 'real' sound. Why? Because when you move your head real and reproduced sound behave very different. There's no being fooled.

However if I am in a separate room from where the system is located it can be up to 99% ''real'. In this situation is depends on what's playing. It can sound very real, like there is a band playing in the other room. Go figure. 

 
Funny you should mention that.  I remember reading a review by the late Richard Heyser about Klipschhorns back in the 80’s.  He more or less said the same thing about the K-Horns, in that they were one of the very few speakers that sounded like live music when in a adjoining room. 
 
I suspect it had a lot to do with the corner horn loaded bass, along with the 104 db@ 1 watt!   

[rklein]

I enjoy the symphony, but the problem is you have to get dressed up for it, which I find a bit stale. I wish you could just go and enjoy the music without putting on airs.

rclark:

classical music venues all over the country have been reaching out for years now with the idea of inclusion.  I am not sure of the last time you attended an a classical music concert(orchestral, chamber music, baroque, choral, etc).  But if is was in the past ten years you would have had to notice that a fair number of those in attendance were wearing dockers or even jeans.  The management and the performers as well don't care if you wear your birthday suit (well, that might be visually disturbing  ) as long as you show up.

Many orchestras have started "casual series" to attract a different kind of audience.  If anyone is "putting on airs" it certainly isn't on the part of the musicians or their management.  It might be the lady in the fur coat who is "fashionably late" so that everyone can see them going to their seats. 

Regards,

Randy

[Rclark]

 Huh. We have Benaroya Hall here,over in Seattle, and it's very nice. I've been there several times, but the crowd (and myself) was always formal. I don't hate it in a suit, but I always feel self conscious, because I never wear one otherwise. Anyway I think maybe this fall I might check out "a show" or two. It's been a while.
 

[mgalusha]

I never wear a suit for classical concerts, for that matter the only things that rate a suite are weddings, funerals and perhaps a job interview.

[mjosef]

There was a brief slice of time when I thought I was close...one live concert sure cured that notion pretty quick...just the reproduction of the drummer's cymbals or stick-against-the-drum's edge was a feat too far for my humble system. 

[rklein]

First off, the Seattle Symphony is a very good symphony and have grown in stature under Gerard Schwartz. What I am trying to say is that dress how YOU feel comfortable.  If it is a suit and tie, or dockers and golf shirt -  so be it.  Just come!

Whenever the orchestra I was playing in would do a "run out" to a smaller city and people would clap after the first movement and get "disapproving" glances from those in the "know", it never bothered me.  What I took from that was that we were reaching a new audience that hopefully would like what they heard and just maybe want to go again.

I am straying off the OP topic but the old stereotypical view that classical music is about a bunch of musicians in "monkey suits" playing for the elite just doesn't hold water anymore.

Regards,

Randy

[Rocket_Ronny]

I don't know, I sure get teleported to the musical event. Is it "exactly" like the real thing, probably not, but stunning none the less. Could it be better yes, but I find I look more for music than gear and that's a very good sign. 

Rocket_Ronny

[medium jim]

The Disney in Los Angeles is amazing.  With that said, I get about 95% there depending on the quality of the recording.

Jim