[randytsuch]

I am seriously considering implementing an active digital crossover on my speakers as my next project.
FYI, speakers are 626's with a custom, external crossover.

I was looking at solutions like a Behringer, or a minidsp 2x8, but have started thinking I would go the PC route, using a PC, software, and a pro audio type, firewire (could be USB2) multichannel DAC.

Currently looking for a used firewire dac for a good price, and figuring out what other pieces I need.
Firewire dac needs to be stand alone, as I am going to use my laptop.

I was looking at this site
http://www.home-speaker.net/speaker-crossover.html
He says you need a PC sound card to send SPDIF data to the firewire dac, and then the PC talks to the dac via the firewire interface to add the crossover function, and split things up (at least that's what I think he is saying).

I was thinking you just need a firewire dac, you should be able to use a PC program to split up the music into the 4 or 6 channels of info you need, and then send that info over firewire to the DAC.  Probably oversimplyfing things here.

Anybody have experience with this?

System will most likely be my modded 626's, maybe adding a sub or two in the future. 
So, I want at least 6 channels, although I will only be using 4 at first. 

Preamp (volume control) feature needs to be included in this. 

I will be using my laptop for this, I already have a firewire card for it that I can use. 

Plan would be to keep all music on a external hard drive, and that would be my only source for music, not planning to fire up my turntable any time soon.

Comments or suggestions would be most welcome.

I also figure I will need to buy some software to do this, but I would have a hard time convincing myself to spend more than $100 for SW.  I am not talking about what the sw is worth, just what I would be willing to spend on it.

Budget for the Firewire dac is up to $300 or so, could stretch a bit here.  I would most likely mod the DAC to upgrade the output circuit out of the internal DAC's.

Thanks
Randy

[JohnR]

There were some comments on this in the "Passive vs Active" thread.

I'd be surprised if you can find a 6-ch firewire DAC for $300 - please let us know if you do I've been looking at the MOTU 4pre with this in mind - I can use it as an excuse to upgrade my measurement/recording interface.

Yes, that link looks wrong - I can't imagine why you need SPDIF out from the computer.

[dwk]

The saffire pro 24 is available around that price's and it's respectable.  I wouldn't necessarily expect to better a passive cover + good budget dac at that price, but the saffire plus Reaper is a good way to experiment.

[JDUBS]

Randy, as JohnR mentions, please check out the "Passive vs Active" thread.  I do exactly what you are talking about, using convolution filters / crossovers generated by Audiolense.  The filters are applied via JRiver MC's newly native convolution engine and output via firewire to an mbox pro 3.

-Jim

[randytsuch]

Randy, as JohnR mentions, please check out the "Passive vs Active" thread.  I do exactly what you are talking about, using convolution filters / crossovers generated by Audiolense.  The filters are applied via JRiver MC's newly native convolution engine and output via firewire to an mbox pro 3.

-Jim

In the "Passive vs Active" thread, there was some controversy if the topic strayed off of the perceived path, so I thought it might be better to start a new thead with what I was interested in.  It was also getting pretty long and convoluted.

If you guys think I should just ask questions in that thread, I can do that instead.

BTW, I saw your posts in that other thread, but the $500 Audiolense SW puts that path out of contention, at least for me.

Randy

[JDUBS]

In the "Passive vs Active" thread, there was some controversy if the topic strayed off of the perceived path, so I thought it might be better to start a new thead with what I was interested in.  It was also getting pretty long and convoluted.

If you guys think I should just ask questions in that thread, I can do that instead.

BTW, I saw your posts in that other thread, but the $500 Audiolense SW puts that path out of contention, at least for me.

Randy

This thread is good with me.  Audiolense is a GREAT program, but there are alternatives.  One combo that is worth taking a look at is REW (free) for measurements and eq recommendations (they have an Auto-EQ section) and Allocator ($100 I think?) for setting up the crossovers (up to 4-way) and implementing the eq recommendations made by REW.

Not super easy, but I've fooled around with this combo enough to know that it works.

-Jim

[JohnR]

I think it's good to have a separate thread, Randy I was just pointing you to the info recently posted sorry I didn't realize you'd seen it already.

Jim - does AudioLense generate the impulse response for each channel, or files that contain the data modified by the impulse response (i.e. "pre-crossover-ed" music)? I wonder because the trial version says it generates 90 seconds of music. (I'm not habitually being a Windows user...)

dwk - good info, thanks!!

[JohnR]

Having spent some time this afternoon looking at interfaces again, I wonder about Firewire vs USB. I ran into a number of comments that people are moving away from Firewire. It generally seemed to be compatiblity/driver issues rather than Firewire itself. Any thoughts?

[Redefy Audio]

well,

there is thunderbolt interface now. Universal Audio got new one with it, and i suspect not long Apogee will follow suit.

i guess thats the ultimate interface.

cheers
henry

[JDUBS]

Jim - does AudioLense generate the impulse response for each channel, or files that contain the data modified by the impulse response (i.e. "pre-crossover-ed" music)? I wonder because the trial version says it generates 90 seconds of music. (I'm not habitually being a Windows user...)

John, the Audiolense demo modifies 90 seconds of a music file you specify.  The purchased program generates per-channel filters that are then applied to your music during playback. 

-Jim

[JDUBS]

Having spent some time this afternoon looking at interfaces again, I wonder about Firewire vs USB. I ran into a number of comments that people are moving away from Firewire. It generally seemed to be compatiblity/driver issues rather than Firewire itself. Any thoughts?

 

Not at all a driver issue in my experience (I've tried 4 firewire interfaces at this point - no problems with any of them in Windows 7 and OSX).  I think its just interface evolution. 

-Jim

[jimdgoulding]

Just FYI, Meridian uses these in their recent models.  Perhaps, of their own design.  I suspect other active makers may, too, but don't really know.

[randytsuch]

This thread is good with me.  Audiolense is a GREAT program, but there are alternatives.  One combo that is worth taking a look at is REW (free) for measurements and eq recommendations (they have an Auto-EQ section) and Allocator ($100 I think?) for setting up the crossovers (up to 4-way) and implementing the eq recommendations made by REW.

Not super easy, but I've fooled around with this combo enough to know that it works.

-Jim

I have seen other references to Allocator, thanks.  There is Allocator for $150, and Allocator light for $60.  From the web page description, the light version doesn't handle frequency.
http://www.thuneau.com/products.htm

Randy

[Redefy Audio]

@jimdgoulding

do u mean the audiolense?

cheers
henry

[JDUBS]

I have seen other references to Allocator, thanks.  There is Allocator for $150, and Allocator light for $60.  From the web page description, the light version doesn't handle frequency.
http://www.thuneau.com/products.htm

Randy

Randy, the Lite version allows full frequency control, but doesn't have the Phase Arbitrator piece.  For $60, the Lite version is a great deal.

-Jim

[mojave]

Having spent some time this afternoon looking at interfaces again, I wonder about Firewire vs USB. I ran into a number of comments that people are moving away from Firewire. It generally seemed to be compatiblity/driver issues rather than Firewire itself. Any thoughts?

I have both a Steinberg MR816X (firewire) and UR824 (USB). Both of these are 8 channel DAC's. On two different Windows 7 64-bit computers I would have trouble with the firewire drivers. However, I had not trouble on Windows 7 32-bit computers. With USB I haven't had any problems. Both of these work great with REW as a single device for playback and measuring. The MR816X has 7 channel Windows support if you use it for gaming. The UR824 currently only has 2 channel Windows support so games are only 2 channel. This isn't an issue for me since I use ASIO output and route games through JRiver Media Center. I did a review of the MR816x last summer if anyone is interested.


JRiver Media Center is a great solution for active digital crossovers, too. It has a loopback feature that allows you to route all PC source material (games, internet, other programs) through its DSP. You can copy channels and apply high/low pass filters for crossovers. It has advanced bass management capabilities and you can easily add filters generated by REW into its Parametric Equalizer. You can use it with up to a 32 channel DAC for active digital crossovers. They also recently added their own 64-bit covolution engine so you can use filters generated by Audiolense, Acourate, etc.

[randytsuch]

Randy, the Lite version allows full frequency control, but doesn't have the Phase Arbitrator piece.  For $60, the Lite version is a great deal.

-Jim

In my mind, I meant phase, although I typed in frequency control.  In rereading it, I can see how "frequency" would be misinterpreted without clarification.

In quickly reading their webpage, seems that you can't do phase correction between drivers with the lite version, where you could with the full version.

I plan to look into some more when I get the chance.

Randy

[randytsuch]

I have both a Steinberg MR816X (firewire) and UR824 (USB). Both of these are 8 channel DAC's. On two different Windows 7 64-bit computers I would have trouble with the firewire drivers. However, I had not trouble on Windows 7 32-bit computers. With USB I haven't had any problems. Both of these work great with REW as a single device for playback and measuring. The MR816X has 7 channel Windows support if you use it for gaming. The UR824 currently only has 2 channel Windows support so games are only 2 channel. This isn't an issue for me since I use ASIO output and route games through JRiver Media Center. I did a review of the MR816x last summer if anyone is interested.


JRiver Media Center is a great solution for active digital crossovers, too. It has a loopback feature that allows you to route all PC source material (games, internet, other programs) through its DSP. You can copy channels and apply high/low pass filters for crossovers. It has advanced bass management capabilities and you can easily add filters generated by REW into its Parametric Equalizer. You can use it with up to a 32 channel DAC for active digital crossovers. They also recently added their own 64-bit covolution engine so you can use filters generated by Audiolense, Acourate, etc.

Thanks for the info.  Sounds like I need to see what JRiver does for implementing a crossover.

Randy

[jimdgoulding]

@jimdgoulding

do u mean the audiolense?

cheers
henry

Hi, Henry.  I don't know the answer to your question.

[Redefy Audio]

@jimgoulding
"Just FYI, Meridian uses these in their recent models.  Perhaps, of their own design.  I suspect other active makers may, too, but don't really know"

cheers
henry