Audiophiles' Lack of Respect Hurting Audio Industry

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SHV

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Re: Audiophiles' Lack of Respect Hurting Audio Industry
« Reply #20 on: 14 Mar 2012, 03:35 pm »
"I have never believed that it is the very wealthy or well off who make companies such as Bryston, Krell, Esoteric and so on successful"
********
When I was living in Jackson Hole, the homes of the very wealthy that I saw never had "high end" gear.  It was usually Sony, Panasonic, etc.  A high end audio store selling Krell, Wilson, etc., went out of business, IIRC, in less than five years.

Steve

DaveNote

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Re: Audiophiles' Lack of Respect Hurting Audio Industry
« Reply #21 on: 14 Mar 2012, 04:24 pm »
My take on the article is that it is basically illogical and, to a degree, offensive.

First, criticizing audiophiles for exploring the small and related aspects of their hobby flies in the face of what enthusiasts for anything do. Some people fanatical about buying orchids no doubt raise issues about fine points of breeding, etc. So what? They have the right to talk about these things. And audiophiles can look into things beyond just buying and listening. And those who produce music or gear aren't harmed by their interest. The writer makes no case why this kind of interest does damage to anything or anyone. Its central beef is senseless.

Second, the article is basically saying, shut up and simply buy what produces sell and manufactureres make.

Third, if taken to heart, the message would deny producers and manufacturers from getting additional points of view. Why discourage that?

This Circle is a good example of how one manufacturer openly welcomes the enthuiasm of audiophiles and uses it to help develop and refine products. Mos recently this was done with the BHA-1.

James, since I think it is a good idea to read anything I appreciate you're sending this out. But for your sake, and ours, I hope you reject the observations for what they are: silly, offensive, and unhelpful

Dave

Phil A

Re: Audiophiles' Lack of Respect Hurting Audio Industry
« Reply #22 on: 14 Mar 2012, 04:25 pm »
My friend worked at a high end shop and for around 5 years I did installs with him. For the most part, the very wealthy were more concerned with ease of use technologies vs. quality. Can't even tell you how many homes I was in where the amount spent on audio distribution dwarfed the amount spent on equipment.

Whitese

Re: Audiophiles' Lack of Respect Hurting Audio Industry
« Reply #23 on: 14 Mar 2012, 06:14 pm »
Well, you can read it and make your own conclusions of course....just debating some rant usually does not serve any purpose than to further the rant...

Sometimes things are better left alone, in my opinion.   I don't think I have to pay attention to every little piece of internet opinion on high end audio...if I avoid this one, I don't think I am being dumb.

James Tanner

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Re: Audiophiles' Lack of Respect Hurting Audio Industry
« Reply #24 on: 14 Mar 2012, 06:18 pm »
Well, you can read it and make your own conclusions of course....just debating some rant usually does not serve any purpose than to further the rant...

Sometimes things are better left alone, in my opinion.   I don't think I have to pay attention to every little piece of internet opinion on high end audio...if I avoid this one, I don't think I am being dumb.

It reminds me of the old joke:

A wife comes down the stairs in the middle of the night and says to her husband - "Joe come to bed - you have been on the computer all f****ing night!!!!"  He says - "sorry dear I can't - there is someone WRONG on the internet"   :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

james

skunark

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Re: Audiophiles' Lack of Respect Hurting Audio Industry
« Reply #25 on: 14 Mar 2012, 07:38 pm »
Wasn't there a report that audio business has improved lately?    I've noticed increase prices of vinyl lately but I've also noticed the increase prices of CDs along with shelf-space greatly decrease at stores like best buy.  I would guess one price increase is because of new and strong demand where the other is because of less demand.

I do think audiocircle will be fine for many years to come (assume a faster host is found, which would increase pageviews and improve ad revenue), but sites like ESPN that are actively blocking videos based on your device or broadband operator.   That is totally annoying, but there's nothing stopping them from these lucrative deals with broadband providers.  Google has been working with broadband providers to speed up their own sites, from my angle that seems reasonable since i'm not being blocked from searching with google.   If SOPA and other like initiatives pass around the globe then that would open up litigation and yeah, might shut down these mom-and-pop ran sites, but there's enough power on the web now to fight back.. Just look at the guy successively sued ATT because he unlimited data plan was throttled and the policy changes ATT has made since.  They are still trying to silence the guy and threatening to cancel his contract.   Guess he has a lack of respect for the cellphone industry.

Audiophile's lack of respect might actually improve the audio industry by providing criticism on what works and what doesn't work.    We are pretty polarized and opinionated, that much is evident.    Just because we have this additional hobby of discussion tweaking gear or the gear itself doesn't mean we don't enjoy are other hobby of listening to music.     For the last two decade, the bulk of my music listening experience has been through inexpensive headphones I use while I work.  I enjoy more music through the headphones but enjoy the music more through actual speakers.

Jim
« Last Edit: 14 Mar 2012, 08:50 pm by skunark »

Rclark

Re: Audiophiles' Lack of Respect Hurting Audio Industry
« Reply #26 on: 14 Mar 2012, 08:46 pm »
It's the economy stupid!

- a phrase we use in the states. Audiophiles aren't hurting anything. We are people, and we are consumers. If something is crap, we're going to let people know about it.

 If sales are down it sure don't because someone complained about recording quality. Matter of fact, you start talking about recording quality to regular people, I promise you you sound like the teacher from Charlie Brown/Snoopy, "wah wah wahwah wah"

James Tanner

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Re: Audiophiles' Lack of Respect Hurting Audio Industry
« Reply #27 on: 14 Mar 2012, 11:28 pm »
You are welcome to comment on the article but I will not tolerate personal attacks on the people involved :nono:

James

DaveNote

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Re: Audiophiles' Lack of Respect Hurting Audio Industry
« Reply #28 on: 15 Mar 2012, 01:16 am »
Well, you can read it and make your own conclusions of course....just debating some rant usually does not serve any purpose than to further the rant...

Sometimes things are better left alone, in my opinion.   I don't think I have to pay attention to every little piece of internet opinion on high end audio...if I avoid this one, I don't think I am being dumb.

I didn't rant I would have no way left to express myself.

Dave

Stu Pitt

Re: Audiophiles' Lack of Respect Hurting Audio Industry
« Reply #29 on: 15 Mar 2012, 02:11 am »
If this article were printed on toilet paper, it would then at least have a function IMO.

The author needs to stop whining.  No matter what you do, or how well you do it there will always be critics.  Such is life, deal with it.

I don't know what he's engineered, nor do I care much.  Maybe he does a great job, maybe he's part of the problem.   Audiophiles probably make up a fraction of a percent of the people buying music.  It's not like we're some dominant force that influences what everyone buys by any means!

He argues that they (as a whole) do the best they can.   Well, as a whole, it's not good enough.  Technology has gotten so much better and the tools have gotten so much better.  Why has sound quality gotten worse, for the most part?  I'm not talking about the small labels who hold sound quality on a high regard, I'm talking about 99.9% of the recordings and labels today.  Apparently, this guy hasn't heard about the loudness wars.  As exhibit A, I offer Metallica's Death Magnetic.  As exhibit B, I offer Metallica's St. Anger.  Anyone with half a brain and one level of hearing above being legally hearing impaired can tell this isn't the best sound quality possible.

The guy also acts like audiophiles are the only ones online complaining.  I'm in the process of painting my next apartment.  Being that there's so many brands of paint and so many price ranges out there, I decided to do a little reasearch on what the house painters think.  I wanted to avoid buying the paint industry's version of Bose.  I found a few forums.  Those guys argue paint like we argue gear.  They bashed certain brands and lines, and praised others.  They attacked each other about their opinions.  Replace names like Benjamin Moore, Sherwin Williams and Behr with names like Bryston, McIntosh and Bose, and you've got exactly what we have here.  Look at auto repair forums and check out their engine oil threads.  Yeah, we're the only ones who complain and split hairs.  Yeah, we're responsible for the garbage 99.9% of the labels put out.  What a load of crap.  I guess the house painters are responsible for over-priced and watered down paint too.  Same for shade tree mechanics and engine oil.

Perhaps we should shut up and act like everything everyone makes is the best they can do, and we should praise it.

In regards to everyone using the Internet as a podium to complain, criticize, defame, etc., no one's saying anything today that they haven't said all through time.  It's not like all of a sudden, the internet allowed free speach.  The difference today is that it's no longer just word of mouth.  It's written down so anyone can see it.  It's no longer behind closed doors or between a few people; it's out in the open.  If people can't deal with that, maybe they should just turn off the computer. 

The guy needs to grow up and stop blaming everyone else.  If his albums' sound quality is so great and is honestly the best he can do, why does he have the need to cry about people criticizing the entire industry.

There's plenty of Bryston haters out there.  Does James come here and cry about people not liking his gear?  Does he say the people who complain about Bryston's sound quality are what's killing hifi?   No.  Why? Because he's a normal human being and he's too classy to get caught up in that nonsense.  I'm sure he's heard a ton of criticism about his gear.  I've yet to hear it phase him. 

Stu Pitt

Re: Audiophiles' Lack of Respect Hurting Audio Industry
« Reply #30 on: 15 Mar 2012, 02:18 am »
Oh, and as far as paint goes, most guys bashed the hell out of Behr Ultra Premium.  There was a guy defending it who got acused of being a Home Depot employee, and someone from Behr posted asking why they hate it and what they can do.  Apparently, the same exact Behr post always appears whenever people bash it, which is quite often.

Can't make that stuff up. 

Yeah, audiophiles and the hifi industry is so unique. 

Phil A

Re: Audiophiles' Lack of Respect Hurting Audio Industry
« Reply #31 on: 15 Mar 2012, 02:20 am »
If it is the same guy, he has written other things - http://www.electronichouse.com/images/pdf/audio_supp_2.pdf

JohnR

Re: Audiophiles' Lack of Respect Hurting Audio Industry
« Reply #32 on: 15 Mar 2012, 02:23 am »
In regards to everyone using the Internet as a podium to complain, criticize, defame, etc., no one's saying anything today that they haven't said all through time.  It's not like all of a sudden, the internet allowed free speach.  The difference today is that it's no longer just word of mouth.  It's written down so anyone can see it.

No, the difference is that people believe that they are not responsible for the consequences of what they write, because it's "anonymous."

nickelbut10

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Re: Audiophiles' Lack of Respect Hurting Audio Industry
« Reply #33 on: 15 Mar 2012, 02:26 am »
Although having a high end system allows us to closer to what the original recording/engineering behind the music was intended to sound like, I for one do not sit down to listen to my system, but rather the music. Yes there are more bad recordings today due to compression then there is good ones, but there were poor recordings in the 50's when most, if not all true recordings were still mono. What it should be about is simply enjoying the music. People who get tangled and peeved on bad recordings are simply in this hobby to listen to their gear, and not what brings us the emotion and excitement in this hobby which is the music. What does Imaging and Soundstage mean to you? Do you sit down at a hi fi dealer and demo gear to hear "detail" " refinement" or any other catch phrase audiophiles have created over the years, or do you listen, simply, to the music? When you put your system together at home, what are your priorities? Music should be your priority. Recorded well, or not, I want a system that simply allows me to be moved by the music. That puts a smile on my face. Ever first pump to your favorite, very compressed, metal tune? I have!! I didnt care how bad it was engineered.

Its people like that that are killing the music industry, and HAVE for so many years killed the Hi Fi industry. James, think of well Bryston have done selling the a nitch market of Audiophiles and think of much more business you would of had, if the rest of the world didn't look at us like we are insane. lol. Let me go out and buy a 1000 dollar Power cable, so the " refinement " in my system is better. LOL! No thanks, I will spend that on Music instead. Audiophiles have killed it all, weather audiophiles want to admit it or not. Of course, they wont see it like that.

Rclark

Re: Audiophiles' Lack of Respect Hurting Audio Industry
« Reply #34 on: 15 Mar 2012, 02:29 am »
 I like things the way they are.

 If someone abuses their anonymity and writes lies, there are plenty of people who can step in and correct. I'd rather have a freewheeling mass of information, and use my brain to pick out good signals from bad, and to rely on experts who can then help me to grow into an expert, than to have everything set on autocorrect and censored to make the content more palatable for business owners.

 Huh, I must be a capitalist at heart.

jaxwired

Re: Audiophiles' Lack of Respect Hurting Audio Industry
« Reply #35 on: 15 Mar 2012, 02:35 am »
I can understand the guys point of view.  With some exceptions, audiophiles can be a pissy bunch.  And they can be elitist for sure.  Not that there's anything wrong with that in my book.  Most people don't care about quality.  Not just with hifi, with anything.  Offer the average person a 4000 sq/ft house built with the cheapest possible materials and no architectural style OR a 2000 sq/ft house with very high quality materials and attention to architectural detail.  The vast majority will pick the 4000 sq/ft house.

mhconley

Re: Audiophiles' Lack of Respect Hurting Audio Industry
« Reply #36 on: 15 Mar 2012, 02:38 am »
You are welcome to comment on the article but I will not tolerate personal attacks on the people involved :nono:

James

My comment was not intended as a personal attack on the author but rather a general comment on the state of the internet and the "credentials" required to author a blog.

No, the difference is that people believe that they are not responsible for the consequences of what they write, because it's "anonymous."

Ain't that the truth... Anonymity is also behind the behavior of many aggressive drivers.  People tend to behave much more on the gut level when they believe they are anonymous whereas they tend to let cooler minds prevail when it is their person making the statement.

Martin

Stu Pitt

Re: Audiophiles' Lack of Respect Hurting Audio Industry
« Reply #37 on: 15 Mar 2012, 02:43 am »
No, the difference is that people believe that they are not responsible for the consequences of what they write, because it's "anonymous."

That's a good point, John.

James, if I violated any rules, please feel free to due do whatever you do.  No hard feelings. 

PRELUDE

Re: Audiophiles' Lack of Respect Hurting Audio Industry
« Reply #38 on: 15 Mar 2012, 03:05 am »
I think respect has nothing to do with business and has to be from both sides not just one.
I think this is balance between audiophiles with dealer and dealer with industry that has been lost.
What happened in late 70s and early 80s??????
All of the sudden all manufactures decided to give out quality products. :scratch:
Why?It was a good market for it or it was a need that people would like to have it.
It was much easier to get someone in this hobby at that time then now.

konut

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Re: Audiophiles' Lack of Respect Hurting Audio Industry
« Reply #39 on: 15 Mar 2012, 03:47 am »
The beatings will continue until morale improves. :whip: