[reddmadder]

I'm also interested if anyone has compared it to the Hoyt-Bedford type ?
Thanks

[Mikeinsacramento]

Had mine about a year.  My drivers may be different than what Clark currently shows as the specs have changed.  Looks like it is now a surface mount too.  Mine look better than what he has on his website as mine are flush.

3" Fostex in a small capacity box, there's not much to talk about, really.  I bought mine when they were $495 a pair.  They sound great if you don't tax them.  I source SACD, DVDA and redbook on an Oppo 93 Nuforce to a Pioneer Elite processor.  I have them paired with a ridiculous 1000 watt sub from Hsu.

I primarily listen to jazz threes and fours and they sound pretty damn good.  Trumpet in particular.  Of course, the 3" driver is about the same size as a trumpet bell, so there you go. 

My discourse with Clark was pleasant and I am satisfied.

[reddmadder]

Thanks for the response,but do you think you need a sub in a
small apt.setting occasionally playing classic rock?

[charmerci]

Thanks for the response,but do you think you need a sub in a
small apt.setting occasionally playing classic rock?

It is a single 3" speaker. Their site says that it goes down to 100hz - no F3 either. Most of the "thump" in the bass (that the average person is impressed with) comes from the 50-70hz range.

[JLM]

Face it, a 3 inch driver (which typically the actual working cone dimension is even smaller) isn't much bigger than speakers used in some headphones.  OK for desktop use and even then could use some sort of sub.  Might be OK for rear channel HT speakers.

Frankly lovers of small single driver designs have almost universely deluded themselves into not needing real bass.  (My main rig uses 8 inch drivers rated to 30 Hz without cabinets.)  Deep/full bass balances the sound, extends soundstage, adds weight, and is simply foundational to anything close to audiophile playback.

Small extended range drivers have very small Xmax (maximum rated movement) so they just can't push much air, which is the premise of producing meaningful levels of bass.

[opnly bafld]

Have not heard the Orca, but I do have a pair of 4" FE107Es in small sealed boxes.
IMO on stands the 107s need help (even a powered 8" in 1 cu. ft. box would make a huge difference), however if I put them on the floor with the drivers pointing at my ears they have a satisfying amount of bass.

Lin

[JCS]

Having built a pair of micro-Fonkens with Fostex FF85k drivers based on the design from: http://www.planet10-hifi.com/ , I can tell you that the FF85k is a really sweet driver!  The new FF85wk is reported to be even better--silly good regardless of the price (which is quite modest--currently $37.85 each at Madisound: http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/index.php?p=catalog&mode=search&search_in=name&search_str=Fostex%20Full%20range )

I can tell you that the micro-Fonken has an f3 around 98-100 Hz.  They really need a sub in my opinion.  If I had a small apartment and couldn't fit in small floor standers (like  the Fostex FE108eSigma Metronomes I built), then I could be happy with the micro-Fonkens and a small sub.

Cheers,  Jim

[JCS]

I should also have mentioned that I used the FF85k in a 2 way OB based on Martin King's small passive OB project: FF85k with an Eminence Alpha 15a crossed at 500 Hz.  An excellent speaker, but still not capable of producing large scale classical music at high SPLs.  For other music and classical at moderate SPLs, it is truly amazing--especially when I take into account that I only put about $500 into the project.  (The parts for the XO are a fair chunk of money, as crossing over at low freq means big inductors and large caps, and I didn't want to cheap out on the caps.)

Cheers,  Jim

[Rclark]

Why would anyone pay $500 for a pair of 3" monitors? I mean, what's the point? If I were looking at monitors again it would be something with a ribbon and a good midbass driver. Music that stops at 100hz is just completely castrated.

Madder, you don't have to make your sub wail. If you must have the 3inch monitors, and I actually have a small cheap set that I use for extreme backup duty, just tune your sub to just round things out quietly. But man, you need a sub.

[reddmadder]

Thanks for all of the feedback guys.
I'll have to re-think this potential purchase.

[JLM]

Thanks for all of the feedback guys.
I'll have to re-think this potential purchase.

Good idea.  Shoot for $400/pair you could pick up JBL LSR2328P (small 2-way bi-amped active monitors) that are rated flat down to 43 Hz.

[jrebman]

Hi Mikeinsacramento,

Thanks for the enlightened and experienced comments.  In fact the design and driver have changed somewhat since your pair -- they are all now made exclusively of bamboo plywood -- either natural or caramelized, no longer have the removable back and indeed use the new driver.  People who have compared the old BB ply to the new plyboo models universally say there is a significant  increase in performancce and onics with the plyboo.  And yes, the drivers are now flush (surface) mounted but not actually in contact with the cabinet, and the port is a stacked plyboo affair that is really the only proper way to build a port for best bass performance.

This is not a speaker built to a formula based on TS parameters, but one that started life that way and has been refined by lots of listening and experimenting, rebuilding and so on until it got to where it is today.

These are rather deceptive in terms of sonics vs their outward appearance -- for starters, there is only minimal bracing inside, no damping material whatsoever (you'd be amazed at what that does), and nothing but wire between the terminals and the drivers -- no notch filters, caps or anything else to cause phase and time smearing and other nasties.

In real world listening (so far using only a 6v6 PP class A amp) and with only maybe 10 hours on them, they are playing very nicely on their own without the sub(s).  This is in my dedicated listening room -- 10.5' x 16.5' x 8' and treated -- and most music I've tried on them so far has been really good.  Like you I listen to a lot of acoustic jazz from the 50s on and I don't feel as any substantial part of the spectrum is MIA per se -- meaning that the lowest notes on the upright bass are still very much present, but also have an articulation, tone and musicality that is to love.  Of course the sub will add more, but hardly a necessaity for musical enjoyment.

These Orcas will be going up in our living room and will be used with a 3.5 watt SE 2A3 amp, and I will use two of the subs as stands -- because it is a large room and can use some more bass reinforcement and because space is liimited so putting the subs under the speakers saves room as compared to the two subs and the two monitors on stands.

In my listening room I have the larger, somewhat more refiined (and now sadly, discontinued) Nagas with a pair of their matching subs. 
These have the same driver but in a cabinet that is tuned for a natural 150 hz rolloff (as opposed to the 100 hz for the Orca) and I've mostly played them without the subs and still find them quite satisfying for most music.  Of course again, the subs add more to the picture -- both in terms of weight and extensiion, but also in dynamics.  The Nagas are designed to require the subs so in effect, are two-way active speakers but with seamless integration of both tonality and timing.  BTW, the new mounting of the drivers inthe Orcas is to brig the sonics much closer to the Nagas, which even at this early stage, does seem to be the case.

Now, Joe did say small apartment, didn't he?  And for those of you who forgot, most classic rock albums were recorded and mastered for vinyl, which means very little of anything below 50 hz, and both Orcas and even Nagas will do a respectable job with 50 hz (see comments regarding acoustic bass above).

Now, for the part you can't armchair by looking at the specs alone -- these make music like fine musical instruments, which is to say that with proper amplification, these can really make music present and alive in your space.  For one driver to cover 100 hz to 35 khz and with no glaring non-linearities, no shout, no glare, and disappear so easily, it=s not something I've had from ay other SD speaker I've had.  They are for music listeners, not for audio flash and fireworks, yet they will do much better athat than they appear they will.

These are speakers I can literally listen to (and I mean listen, not just background) all day and never get anything like fatigue -- again, something no other speaker has been able to do.

They are super easy to place, throw a huge soundstage with rock solid image and IMO are a steall at $600 -- and of course they havee a 30-day trial.

Now, before any feathers get ruffled, I have no connection to Clark Blumenstein other than as a very satisfied (and di hard to please) audio customer, have two of his complete systems (orca subs are shipping anyday now) and will likely go to Clark again at some time in the future to have some feastrex or LM Audio based speakers made -- in which case the Nags will go to the living room, the Orcas to the bedroom, and then I'll be happy ever after.

So, somewhat correct that they will not shake the foundation, but in the right room and sensible amplification they will certainly perform far above what the casual observers will ever give them credit for.

I've lost count how many speakers I've gone through in the past 8 years since I've been back in high-end audio, and these take the prize for ultimate musicality and refinement with no sonic nasties -- not something many speakers at amny price can claim.

And, just for clarification, the Orcas will indeed work very nicely with one sub -- two is just a bit more in the dynamics department, but harder to setup initially -- and at only 5" x 26" x 12" can easily fit in almost any listening situation.

And Clark s definitely one of the very good and clear-headed, practical people in this business, and his craftsmanship is incredible.  If you like exotic vveneers, gloss mirror finishes and to impress the teenagers with their bloated, over done bass -- look elsewhere.

Thanks,

Jim

[opnly bafld]

Why would anyone pay $500 for a pair of 3" monitors? I mean, what's the point? If I were looking at monitors again it would be something with a ribbon and a good midbass driver. Music that stops at 100hz is just completely castrated.

Obviously you have never heard a good small single driver paired with a similarly simple amp.
The music doesn't "stop" at 100hz, that's where it starts to roll off and then there's room/boundary gain. All speakers are a compromise, pick your poison.

BTW my other speakers are 7" 2 way monitors that are conveniently build into towers with dual 10s and a ribbon super tweeter. I enjoy all of my speakers for what they can do, if I discarded them because of what they can't do I wouldn't have any speakers.

Lin

[jrebman]

Lin,

Indeed -- audio is always a compromise so you often just have to choose what's important -- I don't often listen super loud, but when I want a full scale orchestral expreerience, I'll put on the Seennheiser HD-800s.

BTW, meant to comment on your boundary reinforcement approach you used with your 107s -- I was thinking something like the Mapleshade Gilbralters or Bedrocks would be a great pairing with these Orcas.  If I weren't getting the two subs, I'd sure give that a try.  I should also mention that in all cases my speaker fronts were a good 30" out from the front wall, so even closer would undoubtedly even add to the bass output.

-- Jim

[opnly bafld]

Nice post about the Orcas Jim!
I've looked at the Orcas before, I will have to give them more consideration now.

I have a pair of rebuilt late 50s Grommes Little Jewel 6 ~ PP 6V6 amps w/bass controls included cool ~ that are a lot of fun to use with my single driver speakers.

Lin

[jrebman]

Thanks, Lin -- those amps sound sweet.

If I'm feeling better tomorrow I may just go try the Orcas on or close to the floor and angle back just to see what they do.  Right now I'll be using them with a pair of the ASL Wave-8s until I can finish building my 2a3 amp.

I am sorely tempted to get yet another pair of Orcas for my office desk and computer speakers and use them with the bottlehead s.e.x. amp, but that will have to wait until my piggy bank recovers a bit.

-- Jim

[Letitroll98]

Why would anyone pay $500 for a pair of 3" monitors? I mean, what's the point?

I'll flag myself later for piling on to the Rclark smackdown, but to answer your question another way, you have some wonderful speakers in your setup, another way to get to that musical magic is single driver speakers using no crossover.  Remember one of the biggest parts of your mod was the crossover?  Imagine just getting rid of it.  Direct from the amp with no phase or FR smearing.  It's really quite gorgeous to hear. 

Now using a single driver has it's own set of problems, but in general terms bigger driver, more bass, harder to get the upper mids and treble right without glare and honk.  You solve that by using a smaller driver, and mitigate the loss of bass response and dynamics with bigger box, less (no) damping, and carefully chosen drivers.  How you balance all of these things is the art, and why these things are works of art that can't be fully appreciated on a spec sheet, just like you can't appreciate van Gogh by measuring the size of the canvas.     

[medium jim]

I'll flag myself later for piling on to the Rclark smackdown, but to answer your question another way, you have some wonderful speakers in your setup, another way to get to that musical magic is single driver speakers using no crossover.  Remember one of the biggest parts of your mod was the crossover?  Imagine just getting rid of it.  Direct from the amp with no phase or FR smearing.  It's really quite gorgeous to hear. 

Now using a single driver has it's own set of problems, but in general terms bigger driver, more bass, harder to get the upper mids and treble right without glare and honk.  You solve that by using a smaller driver, and mitigate the loss of bass response and dynamics with bigger box, less (no) damping, and carefully chosen drivers.  How you balance all of these things is the art, and why these things are works of art that can't be fully appreciated on a spec sheet, just like you can't appreciate van Gogh by measuring the size of the canvas.     

I've owned several outstanding speakers in my day, and the ones that captured me invaribably have been 2way designs.  My guess is that in 2way speakers, that a well applicated x/o can eliminate most if not all of the smear.  I currently own a pair of Magnepan 2.5's with upgraded cap's and inductor that does it for me.   It is the only 2 way Magnepan (other than the 2.6) that has true ribbons. 

The trade off of a full range single driver is as you say, building a box around a small speaker that can reach the bottom octaves realistically.  Hopefully, I will get to hear the Orca and see what they can do.


Jim

[JLM]

Yes, the small single driver with a sub(s) is a very valid approach.  Ultimate spls will be limited, but inching up to a 5 inch driver can help.  Integration with the sub(s) is always a challenge, especially in this case as higher crossover frequency would be needed.

My Bob Brines built FTA-2000 use "the mighty" Fostex F200A (90 dB/w/m, 8 ohm, 30-20,000 Hz, AlNiCo magnet) driver and after 7 years are still my "babies" and take main stage in my main rig.  But at $2500/pair ($3500 with DEQ and EnABL) they can only point to what is possible in this thread.  But for $195 Bob will sell you the flats kit (just add Alpair 7 drivers, cabinet finish, and sweat) for his T7-A7 (F3 = 50 Hz, F10 = 38 Hz from a 4 inch driver).

[medium jim]

For nearfield, wouldn't they just be the cat's meow!

Jim