[lextek]

I asked this in the vinyl circle, might be biased there...

Got caught up in the convinence of computer audio.  Now rediscovering my CDs.  Thinking about trying vinyl.  My question is an entry level (Pro-Ject Debut II w/NAD PP-2) "outperform" an older Marantz DV-8400 w/Cambridge DACMagic?
   As far as source material my taste in music has changed since I bought my LPs and some of my CDs.

[ptmconsulting]

If you've got a stack of vinyl lying around and you want to play and enjoy it again, I would say go for it. If you are doing this to test whether you have the mettle to invest bigger into vinyl to get the best from the medium, then I doubt that you will figure that out with these pieces.

Vinyl is not convenient. It is possible to get amazing sound, but it does take a considerable investment in time, money, & experience. If you are a convenience lover then this is probably not the best choice. If you are a hobbiest and like to tinker and learn new things then go for it.

[hifitommy]

i find that vinyl is more organic sounding.  for instance, a SACD copy of duke ellington's 'blues in orbit' was circulating to members of Audioasylum.com (vinyl asylum) that at the time was going for $100 on ebay.  i had procured a classic records reissue in NM condition for $30 from recordsbymail.com and the comparison was close but the vinyl sounded a bit more vivid and closer to what i believe is the real thing. 

another early discovery was when i got my first cd player (a really good sounding magnavox from target for $140) and my first cd was dire straits brothers in arms, fantastic sound.  months later i saw a $1 copy of the LP and bought it out of curiosity.  i was astounded to hear that the vinyl sounded significantly better than the cd but incidentally had ten minutes less music.  what makes this even more impressive is that the original recording was digital. 

so, yes, vinyl is better sounding most of the time (not always) and certainly worth the effort to assemble a decent LP playback system.  have fun.

[WC]

It all sort of depends. In my case most of my music is on CDs which I have ripped to a music server. For convenience I use the music server most of the time. I am considering getting a turntable since I have a small collection of LPs, but If I didn't have the vinyl I am not sure if I would have bothered getting a turntable. Not sure if I will like vinyl or not, but I will find out soon. 

The rest of my system is rather low end compared to the rest of the members on this site, but I am satisfied with the sound currently. Not sure my ears are good enough to pick up the nuances in a more expensive system.

[hifitommy]

let me say that much music is not available on cd or download AND kused vinyl can be very economical via used LPs and what you get used for a buck can open the door for a hunt to get that music in better condition, vinyl, digital, or whatever.

you can makes lots of inexpensive mistakes at $1 per each.  you can give those away or donate them to goodwill or equivalent. 

living in a large metro area like i do in LA, the pickings are fantastic. 

[WC]

It goes both ways. Some smaller labels are doing only vinyl and downloads (MP3s). Some music in the 80s and 90s is only available on CD. Depending on what music you listen to, you may need to have the ability to play both. I can find inexpensive records and CDs, just have to know where to look for them.

[hifitommy]

new product can be found at:

soundstagedirect.com

used at:

recordsbymail.com

also, amazon has vinyl if you put vinyl or LP in the search.  i got my joe walsh 'analog man' that way and for the money it comes with a 24/96 download.

[SteveFord]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but you might need to go a bit further upscale with the analog equipment to better your digital set up.  Buying used will help stretch your dollars quite a bit.
Once you reach a certain level , though, the sound quality of vinyl can be very addictive.

[hifitommy]

not true.  once you get to the $200 level, equivalent amounts will get you better sound in vinyl than cd.  as you go up, the quality gap widens in favor of LP.  a $2000 vinyl rig will literally walk on a $200 cdp.  AND the software is still available for less.

[SteveFord]

Two grand I agree with but $200?
My wife could use a cheap turntable and cartridge set up so I'm open to suggestions.
Then I'll get treated to the "glorious" Cats soundtrack and other absymal dreck. 
On second thought...

[TheChairGuy]

Never got goosebumps with digital and have tried - mightily.

I'm biased....but only 'cause it's true (ha - joke - ok, no slings and arrows, please)

[hifitommy]

you will be surprised once you try it.  a used pioneer, technics, marantz, sansui, or kenwood should suffice with a halfway decent cartridge like the at50 from LPGear or their $99 one, or a shure m97xe.  make sure the records are clean and clean the stylus after each play.  do what it takes to isolate the tt from vibration and level it.  a bit more fussy than plopping a cdp in place but worth the effort. 

upgrading can go in small increments that won't break the bank.  once its up and running, try to find records that you have CDs of for comparison.  you'll hear what i am talking about.

here is the first thing i found at the asylum:

http://www.audioasylumtrader.com/ca/listing/Turntables/Pioneer/12D/Turntable/58962

the PL12 is pretty common and was a reasonably priced workhorse.  not bad for $85 as long as it is packed  well with the platter removed and tonearm tied down.  double boxed with good padding etc.

[Andre2]

For the amount of trouble that it takes to get a vinyl set up, i think you vinyl guys are kind of crazy.   On the other hand, i heard one (and the only one in the show) vinyl set up  in Dallas, and it was really sounding good.

[hifitommy]

it's called a hobby.  if all i wanted was acceptable sound with no effort except to lay out money, i would stay with cd only.  instead, i sought out increasingly better performing LP performance, then a really good sounding cd player, increased on that and eventually bought a great sounding affordable SACD player and engaged the pursuit of affordable sacd software. 

all along in this adventure, i strove for improved and more valid sounding electronics and speakers and associated equipment.  it helped that i started this quest in the era of the LP and i dove in so as not to be stymied by changing phono cartridges and optimizing the system. 

open reel tape played a considerable part as well although i havent fired that up in a while.  the cassette did too and i ended up with a sony three head deck with dolby S (the best noise reduction yet).  that was after a tandberg and a nakamichi 700 bought used.  the tapes from the nak were fantastic.

i am not embarrassed to have ANYONE hear my system and of course, i realize its not perfect but certainly respectable. 

the quest continues.

[jarcher]

Don't know if lextek is still there & reading these, but I'll share my experience getting back into vinyl in case it will help him or others.  Aside from used tables, if you want a new one I'd start w/ the Pro-ject Debut Carbon & not w/ the Debut III.  At $100 more it's well worth it for the better tone arm & the 2M Red cartridge.  At the moment I'm demoing the 2M Red cartridge and for $100 retail it's a very good cartridge.

I started back into vinyl a bit more than a year ago w/ a Pro-Ject RPM 1.3 genie, honestly mainly because it looked cool.  It was largely overshadowed by more expensive digital gear I have, so it was more of a novelty item. 

At a recent audio show I fell in love w/ the new VPI traveller & the dealer was kind enough to let me demo it at home.  I even slapped on the Sumiko Pearl that comes w/ the Pro-Ject.  I was stunned that a better / heavier table could make such a difference.  I bought it & a good used tube phono preamp. Compared to the Traveller the Pro-ject stuff felt like fisher price turntables. I'm a real tight wad & yes, it was worth more than double the price vs the 1.3rpm.

The net sum of all this is that the analog side now reaches & often exceeds a $1300+ dac.  Yes - it's a PITA all the set up & care,  but I wouldn't do it if the sound quality wasn't there to justify it. 

As an aside, as hifitommy & other have mentioned, you can get decent vinyl for next to nothing these days.  And frankly there's some stuff that never was brought over from analog to digital very well & sounds bad on digital (unless your willing to shell out $$ for remastered audiophile recordings). 

Hope all of that helps.  The short answer is if you're willing to invest $600 (the $400 Debut Carbon + any number of decent phono preamps around $200 from nad, music fidelity, rega, parasound, etc) & deal w/ the extra hassles, yes, I do think you'll do better than the DAC Magic - and I've heard the DAC Magic.

[hifitommy]

archie,

thanks for the kind words.  i will say that you should put that orto red on in place of the pearl if youre going to keep the traveler.  an even better one would be groovy, so to speak. 

 ;^)

[tricka]

No comparison - vinyl rules.

Its a PITA, costs a fortune and you are always tinkering. But oh boy...nothing sounds like vinyl except vinyl.

You will find you are spending half your annual salary in no time. 

[rollo]

 I say first go listen to a system that plays vinyl and CD. Decide which format you perfer and go for it.
   VPI's latest Traveler TT for $1300 is KABOOM for the buck and ready to go. Perfectly matched arm and cart. No hassles already set up for ya.
  A Vista phonostage and an intergrated amp and speakers and your in. To start that is. Stay with that for some time before making any plunges. Most will take you laterally with no or minimal improvement.
  Then go out and find a CDP that sounds good to you after listening to LPs for awhile. This is a starting block suggestion. You could always start at the top however will learn nothing along the way.
  Remember this hobby is extremely subjective to the listener "YOU" not your buddies opinion. Go to live acoustic concert befre auditioning any gear. Ypu will know what you like, if not find another hobby. It really is all up to your taste and pocketbook. 


charles

[hifitommy]

i really do not see the reason people keep saying it's prohibitively expensive to run a good analog setup.  as i said before, equivalent money spent results in  the vinyl system being superior starting at the $200 level and as dollar input goes up, the quality gap widens in favor of LP. 

at the $2k level, its obvious that the bargain factor is WAY in favor of vinyl.  add to that the lower cost of the software and that seals it.  there is still so much great vinyl out there at more than attractive prices. 

there is more fussiness to vinyl playback but as i said before, this is a hobby, and the returns for your efforts are highly gratifying, especially in terms of actual sound QUALITY.  and dynamic contrasts can make you jump off your seat at times which is much less frequent using CDs.

enough said for now.

[NIGHTFALL1970]

I don't think you need to spend mega-bucks to make vinyl sound good.  I used a $50 Technics TT that was a cheap POS and it sill sounded better than my $950 CD player.  I now have a $300 CDP and an AVA Fet Valve DAC ($2500) and my $400 Rega w/ $50 Audio-Technica AT-95 still sounds better than CD.  With the AVA DAC it has GREATLY IMPROVED the sound of CD, but in an A/B comparison the LP sounds better.