[music lover]

Cheeseboy, thanks for your feedback. Both preamps seem to perform past their respective price points. The Tempestas are great

speakers and highly resolving. I am researching to improve on my preamp since I feel I am not getting the best out of my other

components, and my preamp seems to be the weakest link, since it is an entry level model in the CJ line. I would like better bass , 

more dynamics and quietness. And the Ultraverve and SAS models seem to have it from what I have read so far.  Thanks everyone

for the feedback.

[Cheeseboy]

Bass, Resolution and Signal to Noise are three really good reasons to upgrade.  Let us know what you end up with and a little feedback.

[music lover]

Okay, I will let you what I decide to do Thanks.

[Cheeseboy]

If you are buying new or used I would read about the Dodd Battery Preamps.  Well worth the time to investigate.  It's all about the remote, off the grid low noise and dollar value.

Here is a reveiw of the older product. 

http://stereomojo.com/Dodd%20Audio%20Preamp%20Review/DoddAudioPreampreview.htm

The new version is $1595 as the batteries are outboard.  Don't confuse this with the Buffer from Dodd.  There are alot of reveiws on the preamp  at Dodd Audio. 

[gjm]

The SAS B11A is a fantastic preamp, assuming you want/need a pre.  After extensive A/B in my system, I prefer the sound direct thru my DAC.  There's a definite "veil" added to the system with a pre (any pre I've tried).

I've emailed catastrofe re the sale of his 11A, then found this thread.  (And he has just replied - many thanks. )

As has been suggested, and as with so many other configurations, the active vs passive debate is (I believe) system dependent. Some years ago I was using an EAD DSP9000 Pro DAC directly into a power amp, and controlling volume on the EAD. The thinking was that no pre-amp = A Good Thing; less circuitry and components. I was happy.

However... I then installed a Vacuum State SVP-1 into the system and... Wow! It sounded so much nicer! (Please note - I've said 'nicer'. Better is such a subjective word.)

I know other folk for whom the opposite has been true - people I deeply respect have swapped active preamps for LDRs, TVs, passives... Whatever... And reported excellent results.

[SteveFord]

I can't comment on the SAS product other than to say that the people who have them love them.
I can confirm that the UltraVerve 3 works very well in my main system.  It doesn't do anything weird that makes you think about it (that doesn't sound right, this could be better...) which is what I wanted.
Not much help but there's my two cents.

[bunky]

Both are excellent preamps.Kara Chaffee of DeHavilland and Steve Sammet of SAS Audiolabs are both well respected audio designer's.Steve goes for the lowest distortion possible but the 11a is still a very musical preamplifier.the Ultraverve is slightly rounded but still has very good detail. if you want a signal as true to the source as possible and the lack of a remote is not a deal breaker i think that the 11a would win.if you want the preamp to add a splash of color to the signal and a remote is a must the ultraverve would be a excellent choice.i would be happy to own either preamp but my personal preference would lean in favor of the 11a.good luck....WCW III

[Emil]

I wouldnt characterize the UV as adding a splash of color. in fact , I've found the UV superior in fleshing out instruments in the mix while with the SAS 10a, instruments were lost  and only
realized  they were there when played through the UV.
The UV definitely added dimensionality to the music. If thats color. I'll take it.

[jackman]

I'd like to see a comparison of the Ultraverve and the 11A. They are both in the same price range.  The 10A, which I own and really like, is about $1000 less than the Ultraverve 3.  With the Gold Lion 6922's I'm using, I find the sound to be very transparent and detailed.  So far, it's the best sounding preamp I have tried in my system. 

My speakers are very revealing and I am using my 10A with the contour switch in the lower or position.  Steve's cables are also a perfect match for the SAS preamp.  I'm also using a SS amplifier at the moment and plan to check out the N-Core at Roscoe's house when it gets there. 

Either way, I'd encourage the poster to audition these two amps and as many as possible before making a decision.  I would never make a purchase based on the recommendations of anyone, without auditioning the gear in question.  That's part of the fun of this hobby!

Here is some info on the 11A and tube rolling, as well as a brief comparison of the Ultraverve and the 10A by Martin DeWulf (sp?) from Bound for Sound. 

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=9604.0
Cheers,

Jack

[Emil]

Either way, I'd encourage the poster to audition these two amps and as many as possible before making a decision.  I would never make a purchase based on the recommendations of anyone, without auditioning the gear in question.  That's part of the fun of this hobby!

So true, Jack.
With the demise of many brick-and-mortar stores, many manufacturers are offering in home trials. Some with restocking fees if you do return so inquire first. SAS does not charge one.

[SteveFord]

Emil,
Do you have an UltraVerve?
A fellow on thecarversite was good enough to send me an assortment of 6SN7 tubes to try out in it.
Here's what I've found out of the box o' goodies:
The tubes only came in two flavors: too tubby in the bass department and balanced throughout the sonic spectrum.
The bass heavy guys are:
current Electro Harmonix (no surprise there), GM Delco, Tung Sol (!), and Bendix Radio. 
I was really surprised at the Tung Sol as I thought that would be the ticket.
The really good sounding ones are:
RCA, Admiral and Sylvania. 
 
This leads me to believe that there were basically two companies making these tubes and they were either being rebranded or copied (current EH tube, for example).
 
A NoName-O brand 6H8C was included with the purchase and while that sounded good it is still no match for the mighty RCA. 
 
One thing that I've noticed about this preamp as it has a rather lengthy warm up time.  I had suspected as much as it reminds me a lot of the Manley 300B pre which I'm told is the same way.

[medium jim]

Emil,
Do you have an UltraVerve?
A fellow on thecarversite was good enough to send me an assortment of 6SN7 tubes to try out in it.
Here's what I've found out of the box o' goodies:
The tubes only came in two flavors: too tubby in the bass department and balanced throughout the sonic spectrum.
The bass heavy guys are:
current Electro Harmonix (no surprise there), GM Delco, Tung Sol (!), and Bendix Radio. 
I was really surprised at the Tung Sol as I thought that would be the ticket.
The really good sounding ones are:
RCA, Admiral and Sylvania. 
 
This leads me to believe that there were basically two companies making these tubes and they were either being rebranded or copied (current EH tube, for example).
 
A NoName-O brand 6H8C was included with the purchase and while that sounded good it is still no match for the mighty RCA. 
 
One thing that I've noticed about this preamp as it has a rather lengthy warm up time.  I had suspected as much as it reminds me a lot of the Manley 300B pre which I'm told is the same way.

Steve:

In the hey day, there were 5 USA makers, RCA, Sylvania, GE, Tung Sol and one other that escapes me right now.

Here's a link that tells you how to read the EIA coding to determine who actually made your tubes:

http://www.triodeel.com/eiacode.htm


If you are interested, I have some nice Vintage 6SN7's to try...

Jim

[Tubeburner]

The Dehavilland is a very nice preamp. The Tung Sol round plate 6SN7 and Ken Rad staggered plates are excellant in the DeHavilland. I replaced mine with a Conrad Johnson 17LS. I have not heard the SAS pre.

[Emil]

ne thing that I've noticed about this preamp as it has a rather lengthy warm up time.  I had suspected as much as it reminds me a lot of the Manley 300B pre which I'm told is the same way.

Steve
Yes, I do have the ultraverve 3 and agree with you regarding the lengthy warm up time.
Im still using the NOS Sylvania that was shipped. Kudos to Dehavilland for shipping their preamps out with NOS instead of Electro Harmonix tubes.

[Eric]

Hey guys, like anything else in this hobby, there is no shortage of opinions regarding preamps (cables, amps, speakers, etc.).  I have not heard the UltraVerve but I own a SAS 10A and really like it.  The stock tubes are inexpensive and very good sounding, but the Genelex Gold Lion 6922's I've switched to are perfect in my system.  Did some switching back and forth and really like the sound of the Genelex tubes.

Please note, I think anyone who plans to spend $2,000 for anything should arrange for an in-house audition.  As much as I appreciate and value the opinions of the people on AC, it's always better to evaluate the gear in person and preferably in your system before buying.  SAS has a 30 day trial period and I believe deHavilland does as well.  You might even find someone local who owns one of these preamps and is nice enough to let you have a listen.  If you are in the Chicago area, I'd be happy to let you listen to my 10A.  In my system, it is magic.   

Since adding the 10A to my system, the soundstage has become much wider and deeper, more 3D, and the sense of realism is better than I ever imagined.  If you are looking for a darker sound, or something euphoric, the SAS will probably not be your cup of tea.  It has settings to give you more body or more extended highs but it's not "tubey" in the traditional sense.  Highs (I love cymbals and vibes) have sparkle like a good SS preamp, bass is authoritative and I find the overall sound very transparent and dynamic (in my system).  Also, SAS does not offer a remote so I need to get up off my seat and raise or lower the volume knobs.  Yes, "knobs" because it has dual mono volume knobs.  Kind've a hassle at first but I got used to it quickly.  I don't mind because I'm loving the sound, but some people can't live without a remote.

If you are in the Chicago area, PM me.  I'd be happy to let you try my 10A in your system along with the IC cables I got from SAS.  Steve's IC's are an excellent bargain and work very synergistically with SAS preamps.  Also, I'd love to try that Bryston in my system (if you are local!).  I've been thinking about making an amp change and Bryston is on my list.  I'm also going to try out some SAS tube mono-blocks but they might be stretching my budget and are impossible to find on the used mkt.  Lots of Brystons on the used mkt and they have a great warranty.  I think Bryston/SAS could be a nice combo. 

Above all, I hope you audition these preamps yourself and decide which one sounds best to you.  I've tried lots of really good preamps that either didn't play nice with my amp or sound good in my system.  The only way to find out is to get them in house and test them.  Please keep us posted on your experiences and the fellow AC'ers will benefit as a result. 
 

Cheers,

J

I concur with JMan's comments. I owned the 10a with a Bryston 4BSST and it was a great combo. I currently own the 11A with Monarchy monos (SE-250's) and it is a killer combo

[SteveFord]

SAS and AVA are on my demo list for next year as I've heard so many good things about both brands.
MediumJim, sure I'll try some tubes.

Here's what I've tried:
RCA AZ orange lettering (best so far)
Very close to the RCA mentioned above:
Sylvania GF
RCA K1
Admiral G4-26 188-5

Middle of the pack:
JAN CRC-67N7-C7 VT-231 (needs more letters and numbers to be taken seriously, har har)

Bass Heavy:
GM Delco GA
RCA 504
Tung Sol 322522-3
Bendix 188-4 2-52B

The bass heavy ones may be on their last legs but that's what I've got to work with.

[SteveFord]

I've been experiencing a little too much mid to lower bass with the UltraVerve 3/Magnepan 3.7 combo - it's not a stupid amount, just a notch or two more than I'd prefer.  This probably wouldn't have surfaced with Magnepan 3.6s.
At any rate, I'm very happy to say that Kara Chaffee is going to give me a hand with some cap matching to mate her preamp up better with the VTL amps I use.
deHavilland is a really good company to deal with. 
They just won a long term, repeat customer.