DAS vs SAN vs NAS

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zoom25

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Re: DAS vs SAN vs NAS
« Reply #20 on: 10 Jun 2019, 07:41 pm »
Yeah, right now all these things are just trial and experimentation. It'd be good to see what the final EtherRegen looks like and what John Swenson or Alex can tell us about their product and provide any measurements / white paper.

I've also tried different switches and spare routers (D-Link, Trendnet, and Cisco Linksys) with stock power supplies and a Teradak linear power supply. I have both gigabit and fast ethernet switches. With the BDP-1, the connection to the BDP-1 is always 100 Mbps. However, using gigabit vs. fast ethernet switch can modulate the connection speed of other devices like a NAS or computer. Using a fast ethernet switch on the BDP-2 and BDP-3 would slow down the BDP's connection from gigabit to 100 Mbps.

John Swneson on why EtherRegen will have a 100Mbps on the clean port meant for use with audio:

"Why is the clean output 10/100 not gigabit? Because it is much cleaner to do so. A significant amount of jitter on a Ethernet cable come from noise on the power/ground (PG) networks inside the chip. The more stuff is going on and the faster it is doing it, the more noise gets generated on the PG network. Gigabit has way more stuff going on inside, thus generates a lot more noise, which causes significantly more jitter. By keeping it down to 100 the clean port has much lower jitter."

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/38968-etherregen-early-general-details-we-are-late-but-getting-closer/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-802257

Although I remember once reading Ted Smith of PS Audio urging to use gigabit for the rest of the network to keep jitter down if it theoretically mattered.

I also find it interesting that a lot of users now like the NAS option. I remember in the first few years of the BDP-1 release, the USB option was always preferred over the network option by both users and review magazines. Was that a result of changes in the BDP software or people's sonic preferences changing over time? While it's partly useful to hear from users what method they prefer for listening, it'd be even better if they described how they hear the various playback methods sounding differently so it'd provide context on what they consider as sounding better or worse. Someone's better could be someone else's worse.

Blueshound

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Re: DAS vs SAN vs NAS
« Reply #21 on: 14 Jun 2019, 01:51 pm »
My preliminary reaction is that I'm tending to prefer the NAS / router in pure sound quality terms over the internal drive.  This is based on only a couple of hours of listening, with a limited number of tracks.  I'll have more to say on this once I've auditioned enough material to know if what I've heard so far remains true over a much larger number of samples, and for a broader survey of genres and recording styles.

Having said that, I'll go out on the limb, however fragile it may be, and suggest that the files from the internal drive sound like very good hi-fi. The same files from the NAS drive sound like music.  I can put more nuance to how the two sound in comparison, but I'll save that until I know more.  It will be interesting to see if this impression holds up with extended listening.

The first impression that I expressed above has now been contradicted somewhat, with the internal drive (a Western Digital Blue) now sounding like a contender. It may prove to be the stronger option, compared to files from the NAS drive served via the local router.  This is after the BDP-3 has been in use for a couple of weeks. I have no clue as to whether break in is a factor or not with the BDP-3.

When it was new, with the internal drive newly installed, files played from the internal drive sounded very precise, but seemed to lack a small degree of instrument harmonic richness & ambience (when present in recordings) that was better rendered by the same files on the NAS drive.  The NAS drive-sourced material sounded "looser" and perhaps more natural, to offer a subjective interpretation.

Requires more time and a greater number of samples of carefully comparing the same files on the two drives, in order to even have a rational opinion.

Brian

sfraser

Re: DAS vs SAN vs NAS
« Reply #22 on: 19 Jun 2019, 07:36 pm »
Yeah, right now all these things are just trial and experimentation. It'd be good to see what the final EtherRegen looks like and what John Swenson or Alex can tell us about their product and provide any measurements / white paper.

I've also tried different switches and spare routers (D-Link, Trendnet, and Cisco Linksys) with stock power supplies and a Teradak linear power supply. I have both gigabit and fast ethernet switches. With the BDP-1, the connection to the BDP-1 is always 100 Mbps. However, using gigabit vs. fast ethernet switch can modulate the connection speed of other devices like a NAS or computer. Using a fast ethernet switch on the BDP-2 and BDP-3 would slow down the BDP's connection from gigabit to 100 Mbps.

John Swneson on why EtherRegen will have a 100Mbps on the clean port meant for use with audio:

"Why is the clean output 10/100 not gigabit? Because it is much cleaner to do so. A significant amount of jitter on a Ethernet cable come from noise on the power/ground (PG) networks inside the chip. The more stuff is going on and the faster it is doing it, the more noise gets generated on the PG network. Gigabit has way more stuff going on inside, thus generates a lot more noise, which causes significantly more jitter. By keeping it down to 100 the clean port has much lower jitter."

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/38968-etherregen-early-general-details-we-are-late-but-getting-closer/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-802257

Although I remember once reading Ted Smith of PS Audio urging to use gigabit for the rest of the network to keep jitter down if it theoretically mattered.

I also find it interesting that a lot of users now like the NAS option. I remember in the first few years of the BDP-1 release, the USB option was always preferred over the network option by both users and review magazines. Was that a result of changes in the BDP software or people's sonic preferences changing over time? While it's partly useful to hear from users what method they prefer for listening, it'd be even better if they described how they hear the various playback methods sounding differently so it'd provide context on what they consider as sounding better or worse. Someone's better could be someone else's worse.



Does John ever explain how the ethernet  "clean output" reduces jitter? Also your sound card/DAC  etc.  has a jitter buffer to remove any jitter which occurs on the packet network.

Just curious.

Scott

zoom25

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Re: DAS vs SAN vs NAS
« Reply #23 on: 21 Jul 2019, 09:53 pm »
Does John ever explain how the ethernet  "clean output" reduces jitter? Also your sound card/DAC  etc.  has a jitter buffer to remove any jitter which occurs on the packet network.

Just curious.

Scott

Hi,

I'm not sure if it's been explained yet by either John or Alex (Superdad) on CA. Although, I know they are active nowadays and responding after having closed their thread for awhile. I haven't followed the threads there for quite sometime. If I come across something, I'll be sure to post it here.

zoom25

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Re: DAS vs SAN vs NAS
« Reply #24 on: 21 Jul 2019, 09:56 pm »
In the meantime, I've been enjoying the NAS (WAV). I recently put WAVs on my portable 2.5 WD hard drive and flash drive. The NAS was the winner in musicality. Least amount of edge to the sound. It also sounds the quietest of all the options when switching between back and forth. Perhaps, that may be why people (two reviewers) think the MPD via NAS sound cloudy or veiled in comparison to MPD via USB. There's less noise which initially gives the impression of the sound being less detailed. However, when you adjust to it, it sounds 'right' and the most 'analog' like.