[djdube525]

In the past I thought about upgrading the crossover to my speakers... was curious what peoples thoughts were on the following... if money was a concern and you wanted to rank the following in terms of biggest positive gain to the least, how would you rank them:

Replace Caps with SonicCaps
Add Bypass Caps (Gen II SonicCaps)
Swap Out Inductors with Alpha Core Foil Inductors
Replace resistors with Mills
Relayout the crossover
New internal wiring (suggestions appreciated)
Add No Rez

Thoughts?

Dave

[kip_]

Why not go with a proven design like one of those from Skiing Ninja? While you're in there you should pobably add No-Rez if you haven't already.

[djdube525]

Why not go with a proven design like one of those from Skiing Ninja? While you're in there you should pobably add No-Rez if you haven't already.

Well... 2 reasons...

1) I'm thinking the law of diminishing returns will start to kickin after the cap swap, so this could be a cheaper alternative
2) More importantly... I believe Sean dropped the Strata Mini from his line-up... Admittedly, I haven't emailed him about it...

Dave

[HAL]

Dave,
My take after moding my X-LS and building the N2X is that the Sonicaps, Sonicap Platinum bypass and Mills resistors are the big things to use for better sound quality.   NoRez would be next.  They have been the bang for the buck upgrades I have heard.

[django11]

Just to make your decision more difficault it might depend on your electronics.  In my case I do not like what the Skiing Ninja crossover upgrade did to my x-ls encore, nor did I like the Platinum bypass caps I put in my  N3s.  In both cases the highs were to "present" for my taste.   I do like the No Rez in my x-ls, it tightened things up...

[usp1]

I had discussed crossover upgrade with the Ninja when I owned the mini. He informed me that one could get to 80% of the crossover change benefit by just changing the caps to sonicaps. I never got around to doing the change  and eventually sold the minis.

[jn316]

Unfortunately, I totally gutted my Minis and put the works (Skiing Ninja, BH5, NoRez) in all at once so I can't really help you out here. I would suggest to all Mini owners that they do take off the amp on the back and make sure that the felt liner down there is NOT blocking the port...mine was!!

I would think the caps would have the greatest effect too. Someone here swears by adding the platinum bypass caps too (took it to another level), so you might want to consider those. So I vote caps and No Rez.

BTW, my Minis are sounding great w/ my new Mac Mini/Tranquility SE+ setup!!!!

[emac]

I'm a big fan of the Skiing Ninja's mods to the Mini's.  Nice improvement in quality.  And I agree that a good chunk of the improvement is due to the cap swap.  I also felt that the addition of the Black Hole 5 cleaned up the bass nicely.

Also, I added in Platinum bypass caps a few years after doing the Ninja mods.  This also resulted in a significant improvement in the sound quality.  Crisper and more musical.  Somewhat expensive, but worthwhile.

[Danny Richie]

Just to make your decision more difficault it might depend on your electronics.  In my case I do not like what the Skiing Ninja crossover upgrade did to my x-ls encore, nor did I like the Platinum bypass caps I put in my  N3s.  In both cases the highs were to "present" for my taste.   I do like the No Rez in my x-ls, it tightened things up...

Those hi rez caps are letting some things pass through that you are not liking, and it is something being caused up stream somewhere. It is likely an issue with your source, or possibly the use of an inexpensive receiver or something.

[Danny Richie]

Cap upgrades top the list.

No Rez is a close second and a clear first with some un-braced and noisy cabinets.

Wire, resistors then inductors follow in about that order.

I will also warn though that these upgrades can be very significant on a highly resolved system and very subtle with some budget systems.

[jetengr]

Dave,
My Mini's are currently in my bsmt, gutted and being structurally modified.  Appears you & I are in a similar spot with the Mini xover. So, good opportunity for me to come out of the woodwork, so to speak .........

Bought the Strata Minis used a while back, to replace a DIY 2-way. The Mini's sound great with acoustic jazz & vocal and they are easy to look at. But, it seems that addressing the compromises made for this design could bring about better performance. Well, given that 1) new loudspeakers would not be welcome in my home , adn 2) I am a hopeless tinkerer, and an engineer w/a woodshop, giving it a shot could be fun.

I figured that addressing my room would be a good place to start, so I made some bass trap panels. The Mini cabinets are the next step (before I get my tax refund and seek out Danny's help with the network stuff ).

So, I am curious to see the responses to your post.

Scott

24/96 FLAC>Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2>Musical Fidelity X10v3 buffer>Acurus A150>Strata Mini

[jn316]

Also, I added in Platinum bypass caps a few years after doing the Ninja mods.  This also resulted in a significant improvement in the sound quality.  Crisper and more musical.  Somewhat expensive, but worthwhile.

Emac's the guy I was thinking of w/ my post above. 

I need to look up my old pics to see if the Ninja Master mod used to include the sonicap platinums. Maybe I don't have those in there.   

[dvenardos]

Pretty sure Sean wasn't using bypass caps when he put the mini kits together.

Emac's the guy I was thinking of w/ my post above. 

I need to look up my old pics to see if the Ninja Master mod used to include the sonicap platinums. Maybe I don't have those in there.   

[se-riously]

Since Danny already summarized the "bang for buck" list, I will simply add to the list the ultimate bang for buck for the Minis, which is:

Check the port for the powered driver section.  When I had Minis, the felt in the powered chamber was glued so sloppily that a whole bunch of it was blocking the port.  Simply remove the driver and check.  Also check the driver magnet for any staples that have stuck onto it.

[django11]

Those hi rez caps are letting some things pass through that you are not liking, and it is something being caused up stream somewhere. It is likely an issue with your source, or possibly the use of an inexpensive receiver or something.

Well, I know that a lot of people that I trust like them.  And I don't mean to gripe, just share my experience. 

That it could be "your source, or possibly the use of an inexpensive receiver or something"  just made it seem easier to take the caps out .  I can't remember the exact configuration of my system when I had those bypass caps in.  Presently my setup is (bit perfect) flac on JRiver Media Center 16 ->HRT Music StreamerII->diy tube pre amp-> battery powered Virtue 2.1 -> N3s and a Gr sub amp with a MFW sub driver in an open baffle.

I haven't tried the un-modified xls encore with this system but I definitely do not like the x-ls encore with the upgraded crossovers in it.  (As a matter of fact I bought some stock x-omni crossovers and plan to cannibalize the x-ls for that project. )

[Danny Richie]

Presently my setup is (bit perfect) flac on JRiver Media Center 16 ->HRT Music StreamerII->diy tube pre amp-> battery powered Virtue 2.1 -> N3s and a Gr sub amp with a MFW sub driver in an open baffle.

Well, your present system represents really great performance despite being very low cost. It's actually a great example of how you can get great sound on a budget.

I am still puzzled that you don't like the higher end crossover part as well though. Most of those higher quality caps and resistors just reduce smearing and allow more clean space between the notes. That's the just of it any way.

[dvenardos]

With the platinum caps in his system Stephen reported that the system sounded too analytical (that is my interpretation of what he said). I actually have his caps here to put in my minis, although I am not sure what I am going to do with the minis now that I have the N3s.

My son and I are going to build a N3s center, he has been taking woodshop at school and really enjoying it, should be a fun father/son project. 

Well, your present system represents really great performance despite being very low cost. It's actually a great example of how you can get great sound on a budget.

I am still puzzled that you don't like the higher end crossover part as well though. Most of those higher quality caps and resistors just reduce smearing and allow more clean space between the notes. That's the just of it any way.

[django11]

With the platinum caps in his system Stephen reported that the system sounded too analytical (that is my interpretation of what he said). I actually have his caps here to put in my minis, although I am not sure what I am going to do with the minis now that I have the N3s.

My son and I are going to build a N3s center, he has been taking woodshop at school and really enjoying it, should be a fun father/son project. 

Now that is smart Don!  You will have a live in speaker maker!

How are you liking the N3s?  How would you compare them to the minis?

I hope you end up doing something with the caps, I am starting to feel guilty...

[Sorry for the thread jack ]

[johnzm]

Hi guys.

i have owned my pair of minis for awhile now, i put ninja x overs in them a few years back.
I think the biggest change for me was the addition of the no rez, but I also think that if you are not using the subs in the back, it might be alot farther down the list. Maybe Danny has a different opinion on where no rez falls if not using the subs, but otherwise I agree with everything he said.

I might also mention my ninja x over does not provide any protection from very low bass notes, on the front mounted woofers. a 10 hz signal made them move quite a bit!

I do love these speakers, and they just look incredible wherever you put them.

Also, Django, dont feel guilty. he can sell them to me if he has no use for them, and i will be sure to put them to use right away

*edit*
one other question for you guys modding your cabinets-
i noticed on mine that the front mounted woofer is (poorly) sealed from the rest of the cabinet. did any of you do anything to seal up that chamber?

and Danny, do you know if there are any bad side effects if that chamber is not sealed?  if i play some loud bass music with my rear woofer off and put my hand on the cone i can feel it pulsing to the bass coming from the front mounted woofer, and the other speaker does not do this.

[django11]

Well, your present system represents really great performance despite being very low cost. It's actually a great example of how you can get great sound on a budget.

I am still puzzled that you don't like the higher end crossover part as well though. Most of those higher quality caps and resistors just reduce smearing and allow more clean space between the notes. That's the just of it any way.

I am puzzled as well given that the same guys who recommended most of the rest of my stuff recommend the bypass caps and upgraded crossovers as well...  But still, I am very happy with my system even though it is a bit geeky.  For the price of my components I think it is ridiculously good.