Top shelf mini-monitors

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Danny Richie

Re: Top shelf mini-monitors
« Reply #120 on: 23 Feb 2012, 02:05 pm »
jcotner, welcome to AC.

Well, it's still not subjective though.  We have a stop watch at the very least and that's if the data system isn't installed. 

If it is, there are a few ways to do it...accelerometer in the front and rear, slip sensor or throttle and steering angle sensor.  A proper test though is all of these sensors and about 75 more with live telemetry. 

Still, adjustments to the car are and have been made based on what the driver says he feels. Might was well face it. There is value placed on subjective analysis in your field too.  :D

Hank

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Re: Top shelf mini-monitors
« Reply #121 on: 23 Feb 2012, 02:31 pm »
Great thread!  Kudos to you, Danny - you have mellowed/matured over the years.  I'm looking forward to your upcoming foray into OB LA's. :thumb:

jtwrace

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Re: Top shelf mini-monitors
« Reply #122 on: 23 Feb 2012, 02:34 pm »
jcotner, welcome to AC.

Still, adjustments to the car are and have been made based on what the driver says he feels. Might was well face it. There is value placed on subjective analysis in your field too.  :D
Umm.  No, it can be measured.  The fact that you are telling me that binding posts can't be measured at all scientifically is the problem.  I can measure the car if it's "loose" or "tight".  You have told me that the binding posts can't be at all.  That's the problem!

S Clark

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Re: Top shelf mini-monitors
« Reply #123 on: 23 Feb 2012, 02:34 pm »
What is the consensus?  Does the top shelf Mini-monitor have an open baffel made of varying laminated materials? Is the crossover hydraulically crimped rather than soldered? 

Scott

HAL

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Re: Top shelf mini-monitors
« Reply #124 on: 23 Feb 2012, 03:27 pm »
Here is something that happend awhile back that was very interesting and has some relavance to the connector discussion.

A friend with ADCOM GFA-565 monoblocks was hearing changes in the response of his speakers, B&W 801 Series II's with NorthCreek crossovers.  We noticed that the original Monster 10awg cable that was crimped at both ends was starting to change colors to black and green on the surface.  This only effected the surfaces and not between the two wire bundles.  The crimps are still clean as were the connectors.

He built another pair of the same cables with new wire and the response went back to normal and was easy to hear the difference between both.   

Since these amps have a very minimal output stage for direct connection to the speaker driver, the wire was most likely effecting the amp feedback circuit.  Trying to measure it would be interesting as the resistance of the two cables were the same.

The measurement probably needed is a distortion measurement of the wire bundle and that would be at very low levels.  Probably similar to what would be needed to check the connector interface question.   

Just a thought.

 

LarryB

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Re: Top shelf mini-monitors
« Reply #125 on: 23 Feb 2012, 03:52 pm »
Quote
Just a thought.


Did hell just freeze over?

 :D :) :lol: :icon_lol: :P


AJinFLA

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Re: Top shelf mini-monitors
« Reply #126 on: 23 Feb 2012, 04:00 pm »
Does the top shelf Mini-monitor have an open baffel made of varying laminated materials? Is the crossover hydraulically crimped rather than soldered?
Is Jennifer Aniston better looking than Angelina Jolie? Does the top shelf beer use Galena hops?

What is the consensus?
Scott
The consensus is....that there isn't any. :wink:

cheers,

AJ

Danny Richie

Re: Top shelf mini-monitors
« Reply #127 on: 23 Feb 2012, 04:19 pm »
Umm.  No, it can be measured.  The fact that you are telling me that binding posts can't be measured at all scientifically is the problem.  I can measure the car if it's "loose" or "tight".  You have told me that the binding posts can't be at all.  That's the problem!

No, various changes can be measured. That's not a problem. But quantifying a result in a direct relation to a change in one aspect of the measurement is not so easy. There are more things going on than is tough to measure. It is not just LCR.

HT cOz

Re: Top shelf mini-monitors
« Reply #128 on: 23 Feb 2012, 04:22 pm »
I'm not married to crimp or solder and I think both have their appropriate uses.  I use the hydralic crimp for normal cables and while not the prettiest in the world the results are outstanding.

It's hard to argue with 16 tons of force. 



Tight, oxygen free, great contact area


Now I'm not going to take this beast to an ETI plug.  Nuance and solder is the way with a delicate plug.

Thanks,

Robert

Danny Richie

Re: Top shelf mini-monitors
« Reply #129 on: 23 Feb 2012, 04:34 pm »
In regards to wire, or connections let's illustrate with this concept again:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFNe_pFZrsA&feature=related

Alternating current works kind of the same way. Whatever you hit one end of the cable with is what in theory you get from the other end.

As soon as you disrupt the path with something it alters what comes off the other end. This can be with trash in the Copper wire itself even. Even the dielectric material has an effect.

So you can alter the signal path without changing the inductance, resistance, or capacitance of the path and still alter what comes off the other end of the wire at the receiving end.

The same is true for those swinging balls. Just alter the density of one of the balls and it will alter the force that is transmitted to the other side.

tasar

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Re: Top shelf mini-monitors
« Reply #130 on: 23 Feb 2012, 04:40 pm »
"Maxi" Monitor........circa 1944.......hey it's got LEGS and looks sexy !!! Sounds like.....an EV "Wolverine" :thumb:



corndog71

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Re: Top shelf mini-monitors
« Reply #131 on: 23 Feb 2012, 05:26 pm »
Umm.  No, it can be measured.  The fact that you are telling me that binding posts can't be measured at all scientifically is the problem.  I can measure the car if it's "loose" or "tight".  You have told me that the binding posts can't be at all.  That's the problem!

It may be measurable after all.  You just need the right measuring tool.

http://www.theaudiobeat.com/visits/shunyata_visit_interview.htm

freerider

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Re: Top shelf mini-monitors
« Reply #132 on: 23 Feb 2012, 06:39 pm »
Very interesting article.  I have to agree that perceived differences should be measurable, but it might not be easy or cheap to do so, as that article indicates.  Of course, the article also mentions that some differences are extremely difficult to measure, such as lifting cables vs. leaving them on the floor, and in these instances, a person's perception is a better gauge.

Something the article mentions, but does not explore, is the fact that all power supplies convert AC to DC, yet the cables, plugs, connectors only improve the AC characteristics going into the power supply.  What would be interesting to see, is how that affects the DC coming out of the supply.  It is possible that a 18 gauge vs 16 gauge will deliver the same DC, regardless of whether the cable can source 150A or 180A at 20 microseconds.  Perhaps a pre/pro or amplifier would see more benefit from a high end power cable, than say a DVD player or DAC.  But I suppose the response would differ across every single manufacture and equipment type out there.

jn316

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Re: Top shelf mini-monitors
« Reply #133 on: 23 Feb 2012, 08:05 pm »
Those are so retro-cool looking!!!

"Maxi" Monitor........circa 1944.......hey it's got LEGS and looks sexy !!! Sounds like.....an EV "Wolverine" :thumb:

Peter J

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Re: Top shelf mini-monitors
« Reply #134 on: 23 Feb 2012, 08:14 pm »
It may be measurable after all.  You just need the right measuring tool.

http://www.theaudiobeat.com/visits/shunyata_visit_interview.htm

Deer have paws?

Sorry, I couldn't resist  :icon_twisted:. That is an interesting article...could potentially change a lot of things down the road.

SoCalWJS

Re: Top shelf mini-monitors
« Reply #135 on: 23 Feb 2012, 08:32 pm »
It may be measurable after all.  You just need the right measuring tool.

http://www.theaudiobeat.com/visits/shunyata_visit_interview.htm
Thanks for posting the link - have to spend some time going through it.

I remember getting into discussions (OK - arguments) with people on the "Science" audio forum about audible effects of all types of cables. The "know-it-alls" said that every type of possible distortion had already been discovered, measured, and there was absolutely no difference between cables, as long it was of sufficient gauge for the distance, as double blind tests "proved".

I just stopped posting. It was a waste of time.  :banghead:

persisting1

Re: Top shelf mini-monitors
« Reply #136 on: 23 Feb 2012, 11:13 pm »
Let's not turn this thread into a cable discussion thread. 

brj

Re: Top shelf mini-monitors
« Reply #137 on: 23 Feb 2012, 11:42 pm »
I'm not married to crimp or solder and I think both have their appropriate uses.  I use the hydralic crimp for normal cables and while not the prettiest in the world the results are outstanding.

It's hard to argue with 16 tons of force.

Unless you want to counter with ultrasonic welding! :)

saisunil

Re: Top shelf mini-monitors
« Reply #138 on: 23 Feb 2012, 11:51 pm »
My wish list:
1. Transparent and musical (neither hyper detailed nor veiled)
2. Never bright (ever so slightly on the musical / smooth side - to enable enjoyment of less than perfect recordings)
3. Dynamic
4. Not too fussy about placement (no - it won't be put on a bookshelf or against a wall)
5. Easy to integrate in a living space / home (not too ugly or big)
6. Seamless integration with a pair of purpose-built small subwoofers (8") for a nice foundation to music in low 30's ... but could work stand alone without the subs
7. Less than $4000
8. Pre-built
9. Turn-Key solution: System integration Options / suggestions for Power, Amps, DSP, Room etc.

mrhyfy

Re: Top shelf mini-monitors
« Reply #139 on: 24 Feb 2012, 12:05 am »
Let's not turn this thread into a cable discussion thread.

+1