[dB Cooper]

New OS looking more and more like ipad. Put me in the 'if I want an iPad I'll buy one" camp but I want to know what others think. Right now I'm lookiing hard at Linux- I want an OS I can boss around, not the other way around. YMMV though. Thoughts?

[kip_]

Linux is fun for a development machine or a server, but the apps are simply not there yet compared to windows for most productivity tasks.

As far as Mac OS X If you think you can "boss around" an operating system that only runs on a certain very small subset of machines, and only encourages you to view DRM-restricted content (HDCP, iTunes/App Store), you have another thing coming. Windows 7 and 8 are far less restrictive in what you can run them on and the software you can use.

I am all for touch-friendly, and better, more intuitive user experiences on all platforms. In this regard I think that if you use the built in Apple applications then it will have advantages, otherwise you are better off with Windows or cross platform apps.

[skunark]

I use Windows 7, Linux and Mac OSX everyday, all have their downfalls but IMO the one with the least is Mac OSX from a desktop point of view.   For a workstation, linux is the heavy hammer, but not a typical OS for home users, but perfect for tinkerers.    With Windows, I really liked NT and XP but that was a time when you only had one real choice to do office productivity apps, it's no longer the case, and find that all three can do that job equally well.    Mac OSX isn't becoming the iOSX yet, just OSX, and keep in mind that Linux desktops and Windows are both also heading down this path of integrating tablet features into their OS.

I installed Messages beta on my mac, and it's rather nice to send text messages to cell phones.  If that's iOSX, then i'm game.

If you are worried about the sandboxing, all OSes have solutions, SElinux is probably ahead of both Windows and OSX on that front.

[skunark]

Linux is fun for a development machine or a server, but the apps are simply not there yet compared to windows for most productivity tasks.

As far as Mac OS X If you think you can "boss around" an operating system that only runs on a certain very small subset of machines, and only encourages you to view DRM-restricted content (HDCP, iTunes/App Store), you have another thing coming. Windows 7 and 8 are far less restrictive in what you can run them on and the software you can use.

I am all for touch-friendly, and better, more intuitive user experiences on all platforms. In this regard I think that if you use the built in Apple applications then it will have advantages, otherwise you are better off with Windows or cross platform apps.

Go install the latest Ubuntu or Fedora distro, and what productivity apps can you not do?  Open/LibreOffice, Scribus, InkScape, Gimp, Audiacity, etc...

Does Microsoft not do the same thing with DRM?  In fact they are probably worse with their PlayForSure issues?  If you are pointing to non-Microsoft apps, then sure, but do the same with MacOSX.  BTW, Netflix, Hulu, YouTube, etc are all DRM.

Adobe products work very will with Apple and so does all those applications found on Linux. 

[dB Cooper]

kip, that was my point exactly- Apple is narrowing the range of user options within the OS. You can certainly use non-drm things on Mac (although if you want to use itunes, you have to jump through hoops to get it to play non-sanctified formats like flac or ogg). However, moving towards a 'closed' ecosystem is a bad sign imho. Sure, you can go into system prefs to allow you to buy software from anywhere without Apple slicing off 30%, but... I actually sell apple products as a livelihood (can't say where    ) and I can tell you that there are people-quite a few of them- who have used Macs for years and don't even know where System Prefs is or what it is used for. These people won't find anything Apple doesn't point out to them and developers may suffer as a result if they don't want to tithe 30% to Apple. The key point to me is the OS won't install anything that doesn't come from within the app store unless you find an out-of-the-way preference and turn it off.

skunark, I have been able to send text messages to phones for years from apps like Skype and Adium. The integration does have its appeal though.

I just don't buy the premise that a touchscreen OS and a keyboard-and-pointing-device-based OS should look and act exactly the same. You wouldn't expect a small plane and a helicopter to operate in exactly the same way even though they both fly. I am just thinking that due to the diversity within the Linux community, I am more likely to find options there, like a desktop OS that isn't trying to be a touchscreen OS.

And a lot of people who are buying ipads are buying all kinds of crap like keyboard cases. People ask all the time if you can use a mouse with it.  Why would you buy a tablet and then a bunch of extra doodads (which you then have to carry around with it) to turn it into, essentially... a laptop?

[skunark]

Apple has always had a narrow range of options, it's almost been their unwritten rule on trying to keep things simple.  Always been the opposite of Solaris, Linux and Windows and the migration to Mac OSX was rather interesting for me at least, but i can download ngspice, compile it and run it on my Mac without an issue.

The closed ecosystem is coming though and you can thank PEBCAK and malware issues.  Google and Microsoft are both working on it, Windows 8 and 8 mobile are already showing the signs.  There's really just no way around it, but I don't see any of the preventing one from installing or developing their own apps as they see fit.   Apple will let the consumers decide what they want and so far iPhones and iPads are selling like hotcakes.   

Ubuntu is also rather annoying with the launch pad/start menu showing icons for uninstalled apps that they want to sell to you.  So Linux has at least has one annoying distro and just happens to be the most popular.

But can a phone send a text to Skype or Adium, or your IM account?

A small plane and a helicopter do share a lot of the same navigational systems, but one has a yoke and the other has a cyclic stick.    Even some motorcycles share the same engine as a small car.

Also don't forget Darwin and PureDarwin if you want to broaden OSX user options.

[Mike Nomad]

I have to disagree with what I see is the general tenor of comment: OS X has a narrow range of options, and they are getting more narrow.

With a default OS X install, I have three environment options: I can stay in the GUI/Apple space.

Or go into the Utilities Folder, and start an X Windows session. That puts me at the BSD layer, with a standard GUI. From there, I compile regular UNIX based software.

If I am feeling really nostalgic (or I have some bare bones work to do, like SSH), I open a Terminal session and go full-on command line, in a Bash shell.

As an IT guy somewhere near the end of a second decade of dealing with this stuff, I have never had an OS environment that allows me to be more productive than OS X. OS/2 Warp is (taken in context) a not-to-distant second.

And with a little bit of annoyance, I can install and run Windows on my Mac (needed full IE functionality to work in SharePoint).

[JohnR]

One article I read suggested that the convergence would mean that people with an iPhone or iPad would be more likely to buy a Mac over a Windows machine. I thought that was interesting. However I'm not sure that, like the OP, I'm all that comfortable with what else this could entail. I guess it doesn't matter all that much to me, as there always Linux and VMs.

Has anyone here used Mountain Lion yet?

[TONEPUB]

And a lot of people who are buying ipads are buying all kinds of crap like keyboard cases. People ask all the time if you can use a mouse with it.  Why would you buy a tablet and then a bunch of extra doodads (which you then have to carry around with it) to turn it into, essentially... a laptop?

I love my iPad and I can't agree with you more.  When I need more intense mobile computing, I take the mac book air, when I just need to read magazines and answer a few emails, I take the Pad.

All the remote keyboards I've tried have been a bit clunky.

[Æ]

As an IT guy somewhere near the end of a second decade of dealing with this stuff, I have never had an OS environment that allows me to be more productive than OS X. OS/2 Warp is (taken in context) a not-too-distant second.

Aaahaa, a fellow OS/2 user. I was using Warp 3 before the release of Windows95. I graduated to Warp Connect and finally Warp 4. Looked at eCS a couple of times too. We use to have a good local OS/2 group get together once a month. I still have my Warp coffee mug, tee-shirt and lapel pin.
Well, I'm a Mac user now, have been for maybe 8 years or so.

[Æ]

Thoughts?

Are we supposed to answer the poll? I'm not familiar with the words "upu" and "Maountain" so, I voted for more beer!

[totoro]

I have to disagree with what I see is the general tenor of comment: OS X has a narrow range of options, and they are getting more narrow.

With a default OS X install, I have three environment options: I can stay in the GUI/Apple space.

Or go into the Utilities Folder, and start an X Windows session. That puts me at the BSD layer, with a standard GUI. From there, I compile regular UNIX based software.

If I am feeling really nostalgic (or I have some bare bones work to do, like SSH), I open a Terminal session and go full-on command line, in a Bash shell.

As an IT guy somewhere near the end of a second decade of dealing with this stuff, I have never had an OS environment that allows me to be more productive than OS X. OS/2 Warp is (taken in context) a not-to-distant second.

And with a little bit of annoyance, I can install and run Windows on my Mac (needed full IE functionality to work in SharePoint).

I was using osx for a while at work, and went back to linux. The things I didn't like:

bash, ps, and all their friends are all different than they are on linux nowadays. I didn't enjoy the unix wars when they were happening, and I don't like them now: there really isn't a good reason to keep them all different. I guess I feel that way about the whole mach underpinnings of osx, but that's another discussion.

the multiple desktops feature is poorly done. hyperspaces is close to acceptable, but really this is something that worked well in other unixes 15 years ago, so I don't have a lot of patience for this.

a lot of open source stuff is fiddly to get to compile and run on osx in a way that it isn't on linux.

i actually like apt-get (go figure).

that being said, i vastly prefer it to windows (windows 7 is nice to play on, but i would never want to work on it: been there and hated it, even though i do think c# is a nice language, and devstudio is great).

ubuntu is also going this way with unity, which i find disappointing.

[Pez]

OSX is fine. It's great actually. Everyone complaining about not being able to 'boss around' the OS, not sure where that's coming from. Sure you can't do certain things through iTunes, but there are plenty of ways around it. If Mountain lion give us more of te same sort of convergence with ios. That is most definately a welcome thing. No interface is more user friendly than iOS. And OSX lion is fantastic as well. Way better than windows 7 could ever try to mimic.

One last thing, Linux will never ever find its way into the mainstream. It'll always be a nerds tinker toy. (no offense to any nerds here)

[Pez]

To quote Steve Jobs 'Oh one more thing'

iPhones last year alone sold more than all Macs sold... ever. As in the total Macs sold in 28 years (122 million) vs the iPhones sold just last year (156 million) Looking at this you start to see a clear picture as to why Apple wants to iOSify OSX. Mobile is the future. 

from engadget:



http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/17/visualized-ios-2011-sales-outsells-28-years-of-mac/

[wilsynet]

Would someone define what it means to boss your operating system around?  Because as far as I can tell, you can do that.

[dB Cooper]

What I meant by the original phrase was the ability to change and configure the system as you wish. Lion has zero user customizable options on install. If you wanted to maintain a Snow Leopard  partiition on a new Macbook Pro (to run some non-Lionized apps for example), sorry, you can't do that. They hide your hard drive from the Finder. A lot of stuff that was accessible to a more advanced user is either locked down or you have to go spelunking for it in Prefs, but I don't want to have to do this.

Mobile is the future as portable devices get more powerful and I have no problem with that. I have no problem with interoperability either. I just think there are still valid form factors other than the slab, particularly when so many people buying the slabs are trying to convert them back into what they had before. They are buying them not because they buy into the design philosophy, but because it is a new shiny object that is cool to have. It is a fashion statement to them, not a tool.

What do I care if I have to use my phone to text, it's where I am anyway.

Sadly, Linux does seemed to be destined to remain a fringe "geek" thing. Part of this is that while there is one Windows (sort of), one OSX, there are a hundred different Linuxes with different desktop environments etc which bewilders and confuses many who might otherwise be open to alternatives. I just installed a Mepis VM on my macbook and it was just as easy as any OS install I've ever done and pretty easy to figure out (early impressions anyway.) It would do fine for 90% of the users I see every day.

Now if I can just get it to play Netflix (there is supposed to be a workaround for this actually...  )

Oh and one more thing, re Pez'z one more thing: Yes, it does seem that the Mac is becoming almost a sideline business for Apple.

[dB Cooper]

This is what makes no sense to me. By the time you buy a 64gb ipad and this (it costs just under $100 at amazon), you have spent virtually the same as an 11 inch air. You have a smaller screen, less processing power, no usb, and a MUCH less convenient form factor. John Q. Sheep won't buy a Macbook but he will buy this. I don't get it.

[Pez]

I bought one of each. They both serve there purpose very well. I have a wireless keyboard for te iPad, but never use the thing.

Regarding mountain lion, can you not partition HDs anymore using it? Or do they just disallow running parallel OSX versions?

[dB Cooper]

Machines which shipped with Lion preinstalled won't run any previous OS at all, even in its own partition. The firmware doesn't support it. It kernel panics. This is straight from the Apple technicians at work. Lion or get lost on the current machines. My macbook which shipped with SL could probably be run as a dual boot setup. I have heard that it is impossible to revert a Lion install though so I will be proceeding with extreme caution on this one.

[Mike Nomad]

Aaahaa, a fellow OS/2 user. I was using Warp 3 before the release of Windows95. I graduated to Warp Connect and finally Warp 4. Looked at eCS a couple of times too. We use to have a good local OS/2 group get together once a month. I still have my Warp coffee mug, tee-shirt and lapel pin.
Well, I'm a Mac user now, have been for maybe 8 years or so.

I started with 2.1 (ugh), went to Warp 3 (pretty dang good) to Warp 4 (Awesome). I'd get the stink eye from people when they saw my OS/2 wallpaper: OS/2... Better DOS than DOS, Better Windows than Windows.

I looked into eCS, but never moved on it. I wasn't ready to have my heart broken again 

Coffee cup, t-shirt, _and_ lapel pin...