[OzarkTom]

How did the Berning-Zellaton speaker room sound of Audio Arts?

[Bemopti123]

If what the PSB speaker study is true, the great majority of listeners, even in a blind test, have an overwhelmingly clear sense of what sounds true to them.  So, if two visitors to the exhibits said that some set ups were good but others cra--y, then the manufacturers of big, expensive speakers are in big trouble.  What speakers were paired with the RWA stuff? 

Strangely enough, in my bedroom setup my Harbeth P3SER sound very much alive. 

[SET Man]

Hey!

     OK guys it was fun day for me the today at the show, I was there from the opening to closing. A long day.

     The show is smaller than I expected but still a pretty good show. Anyway, I took some pictures and uploaded. I'm sorry but it is getting late so I will keep it just pictures for now. I'm going back again tomorrow to catch a few rooms that I missed today....





    Wes of the "Wes Bender Studio NYC" This was the first room I stopped by and it is always good to see Wes and Paul of Kaplan Cable. And the system sound good too. Thanks Wes for playing LPs that I bought over today. But I would love to hear this system in a bigger room. Look like I will have to give him a visit at his Studio soon.



   KEF "Blade" I have to admit that I like these speaker both in looks and the sound also.



    Reel to Reel and vintage Roger LS3/5A (?)



   High Water Sound's room.



   Audio Arts room with $60K(?) Zellaton speaker. They are in beautiful room. Make me feel like I'm in a French chateau or something.



   Audio Note room Yeah, I admit it I like them. There is something about Audio Note system with those speakers stuck in the corner. Yes, they are a bit boxy sounding but they are music maker to me overall.



   The people. At the Prime Burger. Another important thing is the people. I met many old NYAR members there, Levi, Mike, Michale, Mark, Martin and etc. It was great to see you guys again.... reminded me of the good old days  

   Anyway, it is getting late. I have to get some sleep so I will have energy to go back to the show tomorrow.

   Well, here are links to my pictures of the on on Flickr...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8309248@N06/sets/72157629455137366/

   Or you can try it as Slide Show....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8309248@N06/sets/72157629455137366/show/

   Well, I will take some more pics while I'm there tomorrow there. Hope you like the pictures, enjoy

Take care,
Buddy

[Charles Xavier]

Excellent pics Buddy 

[rodge827]

Excellent pics Buddy 

+1

Any thoughts on the Gradient room?

Rodge

[saisunil]

Hi Sunil, which MA recording did you get?  I want to buy good music as well.

High Res - Sera Una Noche (this is one of their best / favorite albums)
High Res - Mathias Landaeus Trio "Opening)
MA - SA Sampler - SACD Sampler ...

I would love to get their old country album - not sure if I can come today - have allergies ...

[saisunil]

+1

Any thoughts on the Gradient room?

Rodge

I was impressed by their open baffle subs - not so much with their speakers - I thought their mid and top was not as refined - apparently that speaker has not been revised for many years - it is good sounding no doubt - but speaker technology (drivers, crossover) have come a long way ...

[saisunil]

Audio Note: with those honking 211 amp - One of the best sounds of the show for me - a surprise - give - not room treatment - squarish room and extreme toe-in



Gradient: Amazing Open baffle demo - I am sold on that



KEF - blades: Why were speakers put so close to the side wall - obviously it is going to have room boom ... otherwise good sound



Legacy: whispers (hardly) Did not like the big brothers at all - it was bright - perhaps had to do with mismatched electronics



Legacy / Ayon: That changed completely with Legacy Sig SE (smallest ones) with Full Ayon electronics - CD5s, Triton
Bob? was very gracious - he moved the small speakers to Ayon and gave me the remote while seated in the sweet spot - I Loved this system ... Perfect midrange - bass was not so tight, there was some treble issue - it sounded different - the ribbon sound? not broken in ...



Nice sound with Briscati Dac paired with Harbeth?



GT Audio: Wow - one of the biggest surprise at the show - $2750 - sold direct from a family run business based in Jersey ...
I went to this room on Friday - it sound blah - then back in on Saturday evening - FANTASTIC ... so much to do with the software being played ...



Hansens playing nice ... this is what high end is all about - big speakers, super turntables, good people, good music - what is not to like about 



High water: These horns had a sound of its own ... don't they always - still high end sound



Hegel: I really loved the sound with Hegel electronics - very easy, smooth and in-offensive ...



Larvy Dac making good sound - affordable price $1600. I think they had adam active speakers ... it was nice of Larvy to give away their cheaper dacs (no I did not win   )



Less loss or more loss - I don't know - again so hard to bass to work in strange places without any room treatment ...



Ma Recording: The best way to upgrade your system is to listen to good music

More to come ....

[ptmconsulting]

I agree with many others, the Gradients were the bomb, but then so was the VPI room with the Arum Cantus speakers powered by Avid, and the big Singer room with Verity speakers and VAC power, and the Soundsmith room with their new bookshelf speakers.

As for the stuff nobody has heard of that you can get for a reasonable amount of money I would say "The Clue" bookshelf speakers for $995 and the GF Audio planer/cone panels for $2700. Both had that something special going on.

As for worst of show, that was hands down the TAD One's.

[rodge827]

I was impressed by their open baffle subs - not so much with their speakers - I thought their mid and top was not as refined - apparently that speaker has not been revised for many years - it is good sounding no doubt - but speaker technology (drivers, crossover) have come a long way ...

Thank-you saisunil,
I had planned on going to the show, but a severe head cold kept me away  . So I had to work this weekend to keep on schedule. Thanks for the pic's and your write up.

Rodge 

[Hogg]

Great pictures Buddy and Sunil.  Thank you.  I'd really like to understand the business model for shows like this.  What percent of the attendees can afford this equipment?    There should be more encouragement for "cheap and cheerful" or medium-priced equipment at a show likie this.

[OzarkTom]

Great pictures Buddy and Sunil.  Thank you.  I'd really like to understand the business model for shows like this.  What percent of the attendees can afford this equipment?    There should be more encouragement for "cheap and cheerful" or medium-priced equipment at a show likie this.

Hey! That would be a great idea. Someone should start a large Cheap and Cheerful audio show and put a limit price on the components brought. You might have a limited small section for the Cost-No-Object vendors, but I know none of them would show.

But would enough Cheap and Cheerful vendors show up, that is the question. At the moment, the LSAF is the closest show to that.

[ptmconsulting]

I thought the point of shows like this was for us mere mortals to hear equipment that we can't afford and will never buy, just so we can hear what the hell the big boys are talking about in theior magazines. I for one haven't heard anything that remotely sounds like what they talk about and truly distrust their reviews, after hearing just how bad things like the TAD Ones really sound. It's all a game to get marketing dollars IMO and you can't badmouth the people who buy your ads and sell $38k monitors that sound like crap.

[saisunil]

Ok so I went back to a couple of rooms ...


GRADIENT: The guy there (designer?) did a very interesting demo - I love these shows for these types of demonstrations the A - B - C tests and some folks would love the fact that the folks use DNM speaker cable that costs only a few dollars a feet/meter and is RF terminated at either end ...


First: Harbeth Montors (the $2k ones) with the Gradient OB subs at the bottom - you get the harbeth sweet tonality and great full range sound anchored underneath ... spooky imaging

Then: Gradient Helsinki with Gradient OB subs - again great imaging - I mean amazing imaging - one of the best ... with full range sound - great foundation - better than Harbeths

Lastly: Gradient Revolution (8k) - I do not know if the subs were engaged or not - but apparently does not matter as the bottom part of the Revs are the Gradient OB subs - very similar to the Helsinki with OB sub combo - nice open sound with full range sound, spooky imaging - that is locked regardless of where you sit and move or around - I did move around and the performers were locked on the stage - BRAVO!

... and what did I say yesterday about the same room 

So whatever I say here is just an opinion / subjective impression at that point in time and so much depends on the software being played among other variables ... I really feel the pain of all these folks who rented this room

(Paul Mah said it is about $4k plus - and I did not believe - he was right ...)
So these folks flew in with dozens of boxes, set their rooms, missed their meals and entertained fickle audiophiles like us/me ... while their put their best effort ... all to give us a joy ride through this audio-carnival ... and we have the audacity to say that such and such room / equipment sounded terrible 





Next was KLAN WERK (no this is a misspelling ... which I am very capable of  ) ... swiss make $15 k - active two way - full range sound - nice - but not as impressive as Gradient Revs for $8k ... buddy was there ... what did you think ...





Scena - they sounded amazing in the sweet spot - but if you stand up - the illusion is gone and the sound stage collapsed ... just the opposite of Gradients where the image was locked no matter how you moved through the room ...



I went back to Zellaton room ... after exchanging some obnoxious remarks  - we settled down and listened to some music ... the guy played Zakir Hussain (ECM label)


Very nice ... sublime ...
So how do the German $50k Zellatons sound with berning amps - quite good ... sweet midrange but I felt that the music was held back - reserved - over-damped? The guy said that basically they are new speakers (no wonder they sounded better than Friday) ... they were held in customs and he did not have a chance to break them in ... again I feel more empathy towards exhibitors ...

I guess I better break the post here ...

[rodge827]

Hey! That would be a great idea. Someone should start a large Cheap and Cheerful audio show and put a limit price on the components brought. You might have a limited small section for the Cost-No-Object vendors, but I know none of them would show.

But would enough Cheap and Cheerful vendors show up, that is the question. At the moment, the LSAF is the closest show to that.

Best Buy?   

[TONEPUB]

I thought the point of shows like this was for us mere mortals to hear equipment that we can't afford and will never buy, just so we can hear what the hell the big boys are talking about in theior magazines. I for one haven't heard anything that remotely sounds like what they talk about and truly distrust their reviews, after hearing just how bad things like the TAD Ones really sound. It's all a game to get marketing dollars IMO and you can't badmouth the people who buy your ads and sell $38k monitors that sound like crap.

Did it ever remotely occur to you that some of the rooms were a bit problematic and that this was the first year of this show?  Everyone that walked in was going with a fresh environment with one day to set up.  When a speaker like the TAD is reviewed, the normal procedure is to spend a fair amount of time on setup and often on a speaker this pricey, someone from the company stops by to see if you have it set up and optimized to the best of its abilities. (as your dealer should be doing if you buy something in this league)

Sorry you had a bad experience, but you're being a bit ridiculous here.

As someone who has attended numerous shows, it is pretty amazing how wide ranging the sound can be.  I've heard the same speakers (TAD and otherwise) sound great in some rooms and I've heard them sound pretty disappointing.  That doesn't mean said speaker "is crap."

You're looking for a conspiracy where one doesn't exist.

As far as the business model for a show like this, we're talking mid town Manhattan.  Judging by the size and scope of the bigger dealers in town (Lyric, Stereo Exchange, Innovative Audio and the Savant experience center) there are plenty of people that can afford and are buying gear at this level.

Considering this was the first year of the show, a lot of mfrs. I knew chose to sit this one out and see if it had enough momentum to see what would become of next year.  I wouldn't be surprised if you see a wider range of vendors next year.  Also, considering the cost to do business in NYC, I don't know if that's exactly the place to run a "Cheap and Cheerful show."

It would be good to see something more on that level to service that segment of the market, however.  I think there would be a lot of interest.

[OzarkTom]

Best Buy?   

Since when did Best Buy get in any true audiophile components?

[rodge827]

Tim Ryan of Simplifi Audio (Gradient Dealer at show) is an awesome guy.
I've gotten to know him rather well over the last couple of years. He had been informing me about the Gradient speakers and di-pole subs modules that he was working on with Gradient. I'm glad to hear that they are a success .
DNM wire sounds awesome...got that from Tim too.

Wish I could have been there...Damn cold clogged up my ears 

Rodge

[rodge827]

Since when did Best Buy get in any true audiophile components?

Ask my brother about his Bose system..."Supreme SOTA Sound"

I do agree that a show or at least a portion of a show should have an area with the budget minded audiophile in mind. I believe that it would go a long way to bringing more people to the hobby.

Rodge

[saisunil]

I am playing Sony 'd Demo CD at home - sure it sounds quite good - excellent as a matter of fact  ( (our son Krishna chose this smiley face)








I went bck to high water room - it sure sounded good - much better than Friday and those 211 tubes look yummy  - I want those tubes ...



Walker audio ... very nice sound - the German speakers and electronics made very sophisticated and reserved sound - nothing wrong - nothing americana   

Headphones ...

The cable company is starting a headphone library - what a novel idea - that means you borrow whatever headphones you want and then listen to them in your system for a period of time (week or so) and then keep (buy) what you like and return the rest - avoiding a few rounds of buy, sell, lose money etc. 


I listened to the Cavalli headphone amp - it sounded fine but I have yet to hear the Beyer T1s in an atmosphere that was conducive enough for me to like them ... I want to like them ... but I have not been able to ...



One of the best places in the show was the Woo Audio room ...
Those $10 headphone amp monos  were the real thing ...



Woo Audio Stax amp with Omega 007's - the best sound from 007s (period)

I did their review with their own amp and walked away unimpressed - sure they sounded good and musical but not impressed ...
http://stereomojo.com/Stax%20SR%20007%20MarkII%20Heaphones%20Review.htm/StaxSR00MarkIIHeaphonesReview.htm

But Stax 007 with Woo Audio Electrostatic amps were probably one of the best headphone sound you can make 

So what was the source at Woo Audio


Their own $1200 DAC ... boy what a bargain - it is amazingly built too ... perhaps it was one of the best bargains at the show - or call it affordable hifi ... well done!

What else was a bargain at the show ...

http://www.wellroundedsound.com/
Desktop speakers (round) with subs (round) ...
Good sound, good looks, good price, MADE IN AMERICA (Brooklyn, NY)

We audiophile bunch are fickle minded - I was going to buy Woo Audio DAC but the next day I decided to go with Mytek DAC - why - cause it does DSD and was in the Sony room that I loved so much 

Sorry Jack - I still love the Woo Audio DAC but I wanted to try the Mytek ...

The best part was - running into audio buddies ...
Buying some software from MA, Chesky and picking up demo disks

I say the best way to upgrade your system is to listen to nicely recorded music ...

Did TAD room sound bright at times - yes it did - it depended on the software being played ... it is ruthlessly revealing ... trash in trash out ...

I think the room sounded a little brighter than it should - perhaps they should have placed the speakers not so far into the room and not toed that much ...

I only wish there was more foot traffic so that it generates enough interests so that we have audio shows every year in NY ...

Super thanks all ... it was fun for me ... thanks to all exhibitors who came and may be we will give them some business ... soon