Make your own (like) Richard Gray Power Station

Levi · « **Reply #60 on:** 21 Apr 2006, 02:13 am »

Thanks PureAc.

fajimr · « **Reply #61 on:** 21 Apr 2006, 03:47 pm »

ditto.. thanks PureAC

cixelsid · « **Reply #62 on:** 4 May 2006, 06:55 pm »

Quote

I owned first the Richard Gray and then tried the Hammond choke...same result in sound...no diffrence between them

Yep, it's physically impossible for a choke to release it's stored energy quickly enough to 'stiffen' a sag in an AC line.

Occam · « **Reply #63 on:** 14 May 2006, 01:06 am »

No, its out of stock because I made the mistake of responding to a query by Alan Mayer (audionutge) a month ago -
http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/t.mpl?f=tweaks&m=131173

And then on the cable asylum -
http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/t.pl?f=cables&m=119759
so the Hammond choke disappeared from PartsExpress which was mentioned as a source.

AC simply doesn't have the clout of the Asylum

Partconnexion.com also has the Hammond chokes -
http://www.partsconnexion.com/catalog/transformers.html
and they're currently running a 15% discount on everything (thanks Josh!)

moray james · « **Reply #64 on:** 13 Jul 2006, 07:11 am »

What about using a spool of solid core 14 or 12 gage wire as the choke? If you wanted some more inductance you could fill the centre of the spool with shrink wrap insulated steel rods. Cheap and dirty and if you dont like it take the spool back to Home Depot for a refund no harm done. If you measure the inductance and add a parallel cap by cooking the value of the cap you can centre the LC resonance right on 60 Hz. Just a suggestion. Regards Moray James.

Levi · « **Reply #65 on:** 13 Jul 2006, 01:26 pm »

I remembered my Dad used to make his own E-core transformer. He has a device that counts and tracks how many winds in each core. I guess what you are thinking make sense, that is if you know what you are doing. Remember, it should not cost more than a few $ otherwise we go back to Paul's original parts bin.

Quote from: moray james on 13 Jul 2006, 07:11 am

What about using a spool of solid core 14 or 12 gage wire as the choke? If you wanted some more inductance you could fill the centre of the spool with shrink wrap insulated steel rods. Cheap and dirty and if you dont like it take the spool back to Home Depot for a refund no harm done. If you measure the inductance and add a parallel cap by cooking the value of the cap you can centre the LC resonance right on 60 Hz. Just a suggestion. Regards Moray James.

Occam · « **Reply #66 on:** 13 Jul 2006, 02:39 pm »

Quote from: moray james on 13 Jul 2006, 07:11 am

What about using a spool of solid core 14 or 12 gage wire as the choke? If you wanted some more inductance you could fill the centre of the spool with shrink wrap insulated steel rods. Cheap and dirty and if you dont like it take the spool back to Home Depot for a refund no harm done. If you measure the inductance and add a parallel cap by cooking the value of the cap you can centre the LC resonance right on 60 Hz. Just a suggestion. Regards Moray James.

Moderator Hat ON

Moray,

Its an interesting idea, but please, before you suggest such things in dealing with oftimes lethal voltages, try them out yourself (I'm saying this facetiously).

1. You're not going to be able to return the spool because the steel rod is going to heat to such a high temperature that the plastic spool is going to melt. Inductors do not use solid steel (besides their poor permeability), becuase of the induced eddy currents. This is typically dealt with at line frequencies by using laminated cores, carbonyl reduced iron, or amphorous structures.

2. You're not going to get more than a few mH of inductance, if that. Not the Henries of typically used in this application.
3. Poor effeciency due to the ineffeicient use of space, because of insulation. Which is why high tempeature enameled wire is used, i.e. magnet wire. Also, the axial hole in the spool will only allow a narrow core, which is moot because the whole thing is gonna melt.
4. Poor magnetic structure....

Actually, 1. above is not true. Thankfully, because of the low indctance, your circuit's breaker will blow before the spool has a chance to melt....... you've basically put an impedance short (the resistance of the spool and minimal inductive reactance) accross your AC line.

Moderator Hat off....

pureAC · « **Reply #67 on:** 24 Feb 2007, 01:35 am »

HI all,

I would love to hear your opinions, about earthing the metalic paras of the actual hammond choke. Currently, as I read it ther is no connection to a earth source, therefore only active and neutral connected.

Would doing this provide any advantages?

Thank you,

pureac

pacifico · « **Reply #68 on:** 24 Feb 2007, 02:05 am »

can't seem to find the link to the info anymore on the audiosold website.

pureAC · « **Reply #69 on:** 24 Feb 2007, 05:52 am »

Well, OK.

I have hooked up the two hammond 193Q chokes, and grounded their cases to earth. I acheived this by bolting a piece of wire to the case, then attaching to the earth leg in an ordinary plug.

I've plugged it in, lets see what happens.

pureac

JANDG · « **Reply #70 on:** 25 Feb 2007, 10:50 pm »

193L installed in your DAC with the 2-.47 /600's Auricaps work REAL well. Been running that way for a long,long while now.Did all kinds of testing & them ran together on the DAC itself is a major differance for the good....over a year with the combo of this.. on same DAC...

pureAC · « **Reply #71 on:** 26 Feb 2007, 12:55 am »

Hi all,

As I have said before, I have earthed the case fo the Hammond 193Q Choke.

Ahh, <Blink> <Blink>

Seems to have made things clearer, especially midrange. Why may have this happened?

pureac

BRN · « **Reply #72 on:** 26 Feb 2007, 04:14 am »

How many chokes do you need if you are using mono block SET amps and one digital source? Also, if I use 2-.47 /600's Auricaps in parallel do I need a pair per amp and digital source?

fajimr · « **Reply #73 on:** 1 Mar 2007, 11:26 pm »

Quote from: pacifico on 24 Feb 2007, 02:05 am

can't seem to find the link to the info anymore on the audiosold website.

if I remember correctly he had to pull them as the richard grey folks were breathing down his back...

SET Man · « **Reply #74 on:** 28 Jun 2007, 01:26 am »

Hey!

I know that is old news. But I've been following this thread went it was active. Of course I haven't build one.

But it was the recent Mini-rave at topround's that got me to revisiting this again...

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=41254.40

.... I know these guys well and if those guys could hear the different even with the use of PS Audio new AC line filter than I feel that is worth revisiting this.

And since I have to order some tubes from Antique Electronic Supply anyway. I ordered Hammond 193L chokes/reactors, not 1 but 2! Why 2? I don't know... I though that if the darn thing work than I will need two, one for my main and the other for second/TV system.... and I gues I save on shipping this way.

Well, it cost $30 each over there.

So, here is my very own version of RGPC like knock-off.... "The Duckies Reactor"

Well, I have a cat and a dog so leaving it out on floor naked is out of the question. And luckily I found this can of which I think used to be a lunch box on the sidewalk... an old lady is throwing out her old stuffs and take donation on her stuffs. It cost me $2 but I also got an EV SP8B driver for that price

Anyway, Hooking is up was easy enough and the can and the reactor is grounded.

So, dose is work? Well, surprisingly yes! After I finished I hook it up to my second/TV system. After a while I feel that my old 20" JVC TV picture dose look better... I don't know why but it seem brighter and more dimensional. But when I tried to pause the picture and unplug the reactor I can't really tell the difference.. maybe is was just my imagination? But so far it was very promising.

The next night I moved it to the other room with my main system. I have a 27" LCD TV there and it shared the same outlet with my main system. I plugged the Duckies Reactor in and went to do something else for a few hours. When I came back and turned on my LCD TV, I have to say that the picture looks better for sure. Again with more dimensional look, and overall smoother... the affect is more noticeable with my LCD TV than the old 20" tube TV for sure.

And on to my main system. After everything had warmed up.... Well, my first reaction was "F__k! The darn thing works!" Yes, I could hear the change for sure. I noticed that the bass is tighter. The sound field/sound stage is more expansive. The sound overall have more definition to it, for example the background vocal is clearer and more noticeable But there are things that I'm not sure I like. The first is that the vocal seem to be more forward and second is that I feel it takes away a bit of rounder feel of my system away. Still after a while I do feel that overall my system sound more neutral now.

Okay, and here is the surprising part of this story. My main system, second system and LCD TV all are plugged in their own AC line conditioner. My second system with the 20" tube TV is plugged in an old Adcom 515 AC line filter, my 27" LCD TV is plugged in Monsters HTFS 1000. And of course the biggest surprise of all is that my main system is plugged in PS Audio P600... yes the AC re-generator thingy!

Well, the Duckies Reactor is of course plugged in before all of those ac line filters on the same outlet that feed them. This quite surprising for me with my main system with the P600 feeding it... and I would not want to run my system without it. But to think of it the P600 is really a 600 watts SS amp after all.

So, my conclusion is that having these choke/reactor on the line dose work. But do I like the result? Well, with my LCD TV is definitely a must now for me. But as for my stereo.... so far yes, but I will give it a few more days to see if I really like the result/effect.

Hmmm... should I add the second choke to the same line or use it for my second/TV systme?

Take care,
Buddy

SET Man · « **Reply #75 on:** 26 Jul 2007, 02:50 am »

Hey!

Okay it had been a while since I post about my own choke above.

Just want to give an update. Yes, my finding that I wrote above still hold true.

But! Now I decided to take the choke out of my system. Why? If what I wrote before is true than why decided to take it out?

Well, there were some changes in my system's sound with the choke in. But at the end I do feel that I like and do feel that my system sound better without it. I know that this will sound strange. But with the choke in I felt tense when I listening to music, doesn't mater if it were CD or LP. I didn't feel relaxed as before. The sound overall took a much different feel to it. And I don't I've ever feel tense when I was at live music performance from a small Jazz band to my friends rock band

An analogy that I could come up with is that with the choke in, my system sounds like an over sharpened digital photo. Impressive at first but after awhile the digital artifacts starting to bother you. Or like digital B&W print vs. really one from real B&W film printed on nice fiber based paper.... oh! well I think that is a bit too much.

Anyway, if you are a photographer I'm sure you know what I mean.

Now without the choke my system's sound that I fell in love with is back.

The sense of flow, homogeneous and the fluidness of the sound are back! Now I could just listen to the music and just enjoy the music itself again.

Well, it was a good experiment for me. Does it work? Yes! But will you like the result or not is another story. One thing I missed after I took the choke out is the slightly tighter bass which sound great on some trip-hop/electronic music.

But still over all I like my system as it without the choke.

Still I will keep it the choke to use it with my LCD TV.... I do feel that the picture looks better with the choke in.

Take care,
Buddy

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #76 on:** 26 Jul 2007, 03:45 am »

Got it Buddy....yes, they do give a cleaner and clearer sound to the music (much more detail and bass) from what I heard at Jim's Rave when Mike hooked them up....but you tested them for a longer term.

Good to know....

SET Man · « **Reply #77 on:** 26 Jul 2007, 03:56 am »

Quote from: lonewolfny42 on 26 Jul 2007, 03:45 am

Got it Buddy....yes, they do give a cleaner and clearer sound to the music (much more detail and bass) from what I heard at Jim's Rave when Mike hooked them up....but you tested them for a longer term.

Good to know....

Hey!

Interesting isn't it? If it dose gives a cleaner and more detail sound than why the hell I took it off right?

But it is more neutral? Or just hyped up details?

Anyway, at the end as for my own system. I do prefer it and feel that it sound more neutral without the choke in it. But like I said I know that some one will definitely like the sound of my system wit the choke in it.

But for me I like it the way it is without the choke... pretty much the same way you've heard when you where here.

Take care,
Buddy

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #78 on:** 26 Jul 2007, 04:04 am »

I think I know what you like....a smoother, airy type sounding system...more relaxed...less detail. And....you don't miss deep bass...correct ?

SET Man · « **Reply #79 on:** 26 Jul 2007, 04:11 am »

Quote from: lonewolfny42 on 26 Jul 2007, 04:04 am

I think I know what you like....a smoother, airy type sounding system...more relaxed...less detail. And....you don't miss deep bass...correct ?

Hey!

Well, I don't know but I do feel that it sound right without it. And yes I do like detail and bass of which still there but not presented as sharp as it was with the choke in it.

Anyway, next time I have a mini-rave at my place I will have the choke in and out and see who like which type of sound.

Take care,
Buddy