OK Guru's - I'm lost

SoCalWJS · « **Reply #80 on:** 2 Mar 2012, 05:39 pm »

Quote from: edoggrc51 on 2 Mar 2012, 02:54 am

Where in SoCal are you?? I know a local guy guy who makes custom acoustic panels for a very good price. I compared his to my GIK's and could not really tell a difference so I bought a whole bunch from him. Took my system to another level.

Live in the Mountains of the Inland Empire, South side of the Pass.

Mostly just playing around with placement of what I already have. Figure I've got a solid half-day of removing, cutting, and replacing the OC 703 before I give any thought to taking measurements again, then decide what's next. Thinking power conditioning in about a month (when I have another round of discretionary money to blow, errr, I mean improve my sound.

)

SoCalWJS · « **Reply #81 on:** 2 Mar 2012, 05:57 pm »

Quote from: Cheeseboy on 2 Mar 2012, 04:47 pm

Think 3 AM ride up the hill tommorrow morning. 5 feet of new snow.

Where did you get the most bang for the buck with the AQD-1 diffusion? I just gotta know!

3 AM!!??!! Yikes! I thought it was bad when when we left at around 4:30 from Davis! Hmmmmmm, Saturday with 5 feet of new snow? Does Sugar Bowl still cut off tickets at a reasonable number?

Right now, I've got 2 on the front wall between the speakers and 1 behind and slightly to the outside of each speaker. Have made a notable improvement on focus and depth, yet some things seem worse, and I don't think the diffusors could be responsible, so I'm guessing bad power. It was windy all last night, so I didn't bother with any critical listening. Maybe tonight I'll get serious about it. Looking like Sunday/Monday before I get a chance to try my next round of changes. It's going to be work.

Cheeseboy · « **Reply #82 on:** 2 Mar 2012, 07:21 pm »

We are about an hour and a half from Davis. Santa Rosa. It's 11am, I'll make this fast I need to get to bed. Bahaha.

I think my biggest problem is the center image in my case. I'm glad that it is working for you. Thick OC-703 behind the speakers and Diffusion in the center will help for me too.

I know I have bad power. The last few nights we have been listening to a guy on his CB at the coast. It helped with Hallies vocal runs on Idol monday night. The refridgerator was keeping the beat as well.

SoCalWJS · « **Reply #83 on:** 5 Mar 2012, 10:08 pm »

I'm pretty sure I'm gonna be sore for a couple of days (better be able to swing the clubs tomorrow

).

Took about 2 1/2 hours, but I got what I wanted to get done, done. The OC 703 has been cut into triangles and stacked 4' high in each front corner. Had to empty/move 2 bookcases, get all the OC 703 downstairs, cut, back up the stairs, put the bookcases back, and get the DVD's back on the shelves. Fiberglass everywhere.

Let's see if this works............

Before:

After:

Omnimic 1/48th octave sine sweep, both channels with mono short sweep. Didn't notice that I didn't have the levels matched - not sure how big of a difference it makes.
WHen I checked each channel, the L/R still showed the drop at the 55-65 hz region, but neither was quite as bad as before, but the sum of both channels was considerably better. seemed to improve the dip up around 1.5 khz, but now I have a dip around 125 hz that's a bit worse. Gonna wait till tonight to do serious listening (bunch of appliances running now), but the bass seems a bit tighter.

Cheeseboy · « **Reply #84 on:** 5 Mar 2012, 10:40 pm »

Looks like the middle got much better. Pity about your golf game though.

Did you flip the crossover to "All On Bass"? or are you still in the limiter mode?

SoCalWJS · « **Reply #85 on:** 5 Mar 2012, 11:03 pm »

Quote from: Cheeseboy on 5 Mar 2012, 10:40 pm

Looks like the middle got much better. Pity about your golf game though.

Did you flip the crossover to "All On Bass"? or are you still in the limiter mode?

Cutting 48 triangles down on the ground, getting up and down, up the stairs, down the stairs. Knees ain't what they used to be. Then I decided I needed to move the equipment rack a few inches. Unplug everything (mainly the Lex and the 6 channel Classe). Leaning over the back and squinting at all those blasted labels. Back was screaming at the end of all that. That took another 2 hours.

Really need to get back on my exercise program.

Still using the bass management system set at the "most bass" position. I'll hold off on bypassing it completely for now.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #86 on:** 6 Mar 2012, 01:23 am »

Don't worry about the narrow band wiggles, just the wide band peaks or dips.

Cheeseboy · « **Reply #87 on:** 6 Mar 2012, 04:31 am »

My knees hurt because there is a rain storm moving in No CAL tonight. #1 concern in picking this house was NO STAIRS! I hear it will be 80 tommorrow in LA.

Everything is moving the right direction.

SoCalWJS · « **Reply #88 on:** 14 Mar 2012, 08:17 pm »

OK, still playing around with this whole thing..........

I was reasonably happy with my specific speaker and room treatment placement. I got a reasonable soundstage with a bit of depth. I was enjoying listening to music. Life was pretty good.

..... but I'm never quite satisfied to the point where I stop looking for improvements, so I keep reading. I ran across a thread in the Steve Hoffman forum about the toe-in of speakers. SH posted this (actually, somebody else re-posted it for him) about the subject:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=7217768&postcount=37

Basically: listen to a mono vocal recording, swap cables so one speaker is out of phase, then adjust the toe-in so that you obtain the most diffuse image, then swap the cables back so speakers are in phase.

Anybody tried this? I don't think I have too many mono recordings - A Beatles CD if I recall correctly, and that's it.

I messed around with toe-in after reading this. Seems like I can get my choice - wide soundstage or deep, but not both. (I'm trying to rotate the speakers about their vertical axis so that frequency response stays close to the same - that's pretty good.)

What have others done with respect to toe-in on LS-6'es, and what have your results been?

Danny, what do you think about toe-in on these?

Danny Richie · « **Reply #89 on:** 14 Mar 2012, 09:58 pm »

Toe in depends on the room as much as anything. It also depends on listening distance.

A few degrees of rotation really won't change the on axis response with these. In fact even turning them 15 degrees off axis or so won't really alter the direct sound from you to the speakers. You are just altering the room response by moving around your side wall reflections that are more of the extreme off axis.

Just aim them out enough to give you the best sound stage size and then move them in towards each other until the center image is focused.

I am sure that you can get the best of everything with no compromises.

Cheeseboy · « **Reply #90 on:** 14 Mar 2012, 10:21 pm »

It almost sounds too easy. Will I really get a better or just bigger soundstage pointing towards the outer walls.

Rclark · « **Reply #91 on:** 14 Mar 2012, 10:22 pm »

Nice graphs. How you likin' the 'mic? I should be able to order mine soon.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #92 on:** 14 Mar 2012, 10:29 pm »

Quote from: Cheeseboy on 14 Mar 2012, 10:21 pm

It almost sounds too easy. Will I really get a better or just bigger soundstage pointing towards the outer walls.

You may not have to point them towards the walls. Somewhere between pointed towards the listening position and pointing straight ahead into the room is usually ideal. And yes, it will allow the sound stage size to be bigger. Once you get them the right distance apart verse seating distance then the center image will be very focused regardless of slight changes to towing the speakers in or out.

SoCalWJS · « **Reply #93 on:** 14 Mar 2012, 10:34 pm »

Sounds like I may need to have two speaker positions: one for 2 channel, and one for HT....

..... thinking of putting sliders on the bottom of the base so they'll slide easier

, but don't know if a little de-coupling from the floor is a good idea.

SoCalWJS · « **Reply #94 on:** 14 Mar 2012, 10:42 pm »

Quote from: Rclark on 14 Mar 2012, 10:22 pm

Nice graphs. How you likin' the 'mic? I should be able to order mine soon.

Does more stuff than you can shake a stick at. Main thing is to get the calibration files loaded so the microphone is accurate. Lots of fun. Can also drive you mad looking at the minor differences as you move the speaker a millimeter or two.

Quite a learning experience. Has an SPL function as well. MUCH faster than the RatShack. Scary looking at some of the SPL's that I listen at

. (very short peak SPL's run around 20 db higher than the average "C" "slow" readings - sometimes more

)

Rclark · « **Reply #95 on:** 15 Mar 2012, 01:08 am »

I'm pretty excited. I think once I get one I can finally move into the "intermediate" level of the hobby.

post more, I wanna see.

Cheeseboy · « **Reply #96 on:** 15 Mar 2012, 07:13 pm »

Danny,

Is there a secret to setting the distance between the speakers? What do you listen for in your experience for set up? What is the determining factor. Center Image? I did the Cardas measurements for the speaker placement. However not on the front to back and listener placement.

Currently the center image does sound very tight but I'm lacking some left and right staging. The speakers are currently focused right at the sweet spot. Not behind. Not in front of.

In the same room a speaker with the Vifa tweeter, the 850 sig from 123, took advantage of being almost parallel in thier plain with the front wall for the best soundstage. Toed in they lost alot of staging.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #97 on:** 16 Mar 2012, 03:29 pm »

Quote from: Cheeseboy on 15 Mar 2012, 07:13 pm

Danny,

Is there a secret to setting the distance between the speakers? What do you listen for in your experience for set up? What is the determining factor. Center Image? I did the Cardas measurements for the speaker placement. However not on the front to back and listener placement.

Currently the center image does sound very tight but I'm lacking some left and right staging. The speakers are currently focused right at the sweet spot. Not behind. Not in front of.

In the same room a speaker with the Vifa tweeter, the 850 sig from 123, took advantage of being almost parallel in thier plain with the front wall for the best soundstage. Toed in they lost alot of staging.

No real trick. You just have to be willing to make some adjustments.

I saw your room pics. You have a reflective surface (a big TV) right between your speakers. You also have them right up on an untreated wall with no room treatments, no tube traps or anything.

You have a lot of improvement ahead.

You could just throw a thick comforter over your TV screen when listening to music and that would be a big improvement.

Pull them out a little further into the room and do some rear wall treatments and that will really good a long way too.

Cheeseboy · « **Reply #98 on:** 19 Mar 2012, 04:54 pm »

Correct I threw a sleeping bag over the screen and it did wonders I ll treat the walls behind and first reflections The speakers are abOut 8 inches out than the pic every time my wife travels they creep further into the room

Danny Richie · « **Reply #99 on:** 19 Mar 2012, 06:24 pm »

Quote

The speakers are abOut 8 inches out than the pic every time my wife travels they creep further into the room