[MichaelHiFi]

i was gonna ask that...

I got a pair of xtra tall N3s last year and I am happy with them for my home office.  these would be for a system in a larger living room...

hummmm, i wanted to get a new rolex this year.  now... rolex or superv... superv vs rolex... decisions, decisions, decisions.

With the Super V's, you might lose track of time. Get both   

[Danny Richie]

Ummm, other manufacturers have been using servo controlled subs for decades.  You can go as far back as the early 80's to Infinity and the IRS.  (edit - actually probably back to the 70's, I believe the Servostatics used a servo controlled woofer - hence the name.)

Maybe the trick is to use servos with open baffles?  No, wait, didn't Gradient do that in the late 80's / early 90's?

So you see, the trick isn't in the technology, just the application of it.

That old servo stuff was primitive technology compared to what the Super-V uses. No comparison.

[brj]

At RMAF, every year that he's brought the Super V's, they have had the best bass of any room in the show.  We are talking about $75k speakers it's going against.

Not to take anything away from the speakers, but a big part of bass performance you reference is a direct result of the fact that Danny is smart enough to treat the room.  Most floor standers and certainly all speakers that I can think of in the price class you mention produce far more bass than rooms of the typical RMAF size can handle without treatment.

[Cheeseboy]

So those other speaker manufacturers haven't figured out how to treat a room?   I wouldn't want to buy anything from somebody that hasn't figured that out yet.  I do see room treatments in most pictures from the RMAF.  They must have the wrong treatments. 

[Tyson]

Room treatments will help the mids/highs, but won't help much in the bass.  OB bass is a nice improvement over box bass specifically because it interacts with the room in a different way, resulting in less modes, which equals better bass for the listener.  Throw in dual 12 inch servo subs and you have a world class bass solution.

[Jonathon Janusz]

Michael, the speakers (and room!) look great. . . and you are making it very hard on me!

See, with all my house cleaning lately, I found myself basically without speakers.  After about a week and a half, it dawned on me that I still had the p-audio coaxials and the crossovers from my sealed speaker build.  I figured, "well, it has got to be better than nothing", so I currently have the coaxials sitting on the floor out in the open pointed straight up with the wiring from the crossovers clamped to my speaker cables/amp.

I know the crossover is totally wrong, and the speaker placement (if you want to call it that) is poor at best, and there is no bass to speak of, but darned if every once in while a little bit of "magic" shines through. . .

[Danny Richie]

OB bass doesn't load the room like a boxed speaker but there can still be standing waves in the corners of the room that can have a negative effect on the sound.

At RMAF we not only have a curtain around the room, but some foam wedges in the corners of the room. Then we used diffusors to improve image focus and sound stage size.

And yes, we are one of the only exhibitors at RMAF that understands how to set up a room. And that is not just because of me. The guys that I show with are the best in the industry when it comes to knowing how to set up a room. And they all have great ears too.

[Cheeseboy]

And thats why I own GR Designed Speakers.

[MichaelHiFi]

I am blessed to have full control over my room. My wife cares about sound as will stick 20lb bags of sand on components if that improves the sound. And she has.

That being said I don't have a great deal of treatments in my room because;

There's a lot to consider!
I need to shore up the foundation with piers (what a total PIA)
I have the appropriate bass traps in the corner
I'm open in the back of the room
I've got a lot of S on the sides including my damn Indian rugs  (no smilies for Indians - racists  )
The bass sounds great in this room, best I've heard and I don't hear much difference with the no-rez.
I'd like to add a diffuser to our ceiling.

There's supposed to be a tweak with the plate amps. Danny, can you elaborate?

Still waiting for sub interconnects and wire.

Would someday like to have my Torii amp. I have 2 of them but none of them. 

Thanks for the kind words Jonathon! Sorry to make it tough on you but come on over for a listen and see if it's worth it.

[MichaelHiFi]

You'll like this;

I come home today excited to play the Super V's for the wife who was at work yesterday evening. We had listened to Radiohead last night and it was mind bending.

So I warmed the system and queued RH. I sat her down in the sweet spot and let er rip. It sounded good. Pretty good. She really liked it. After a few songs though I thought to myself, "sounds better in the evening when there's better AC". Still though, it didn't seem right. Nothing changed from last night so what gives? I looked at my pre, at my borrowed amp, at the Oppo, what gives? I looked down at the amp boxes. The amp box on the right had all the controls altered. The volume was turned ALL THE WAY DOWN. Jr had found the amp box.

Ah-hem, OK dear, let's try this again. 

[Jonathon Janusz]

Michael, thanks for the invite, but I think I'm a little far out to make a road trip of it (I'm in WI).  Would really like to (hopefully) meet a bunch of you all at RMAF this year (I'm going to try harder to make it out this time around!)

Let's just say that I'm fairly confident it would be "worth it" - all I ever seem to hear about these speakers is "best I've ever heard" from a lot of people who have heard/owned some gear far above my humble pay grade.  I've just got some logistics issues right now that keep me from just pulling the trigger (room, moving, and lack of DIY woodworking to keep it short).

Regarding room treatments and such, I know I might take some heat for this statement from folks who swear by measurements above all else, but bottom line (IMHO and all that, of course) - if your room looks great, sounds great, and makes you happy, you've done it "right", plain and simple.  Theory and measurements can be then used to "prove it" as well as give a more focused idea as to how to go about making "great" better without as much extra cost, trial, and error.   

Re: the kids -    Precious!

[HAL]

That old servo stuff was primitive technology compared to what the Super-V uses. No comparison.

Yes it was primitive, but I will say this.

When I heard the Infinity IRS Reference III's in 1979 at an audio show, I was in awe!   With 12 -12" sealed servo woofers and 3000 watts of power behind them, they made bass response in a large room that was awesome!  The 30Hz content of Mannheim Steamrollers Fresh Aire III " Tocatta" made your chest resonate!

The Super-V's produce great bass in my setup.  But I still drool over the the IRS III's!

[Uncle Elvis]

Michael,
Beautiful job on those speakers! When are you going to have a listening get together? I'd love to hear and see them in person.
Ken

[corndog71]

The amp box on the right had all the controls altered. The volume was turned ALL THE WAY DOWN. Jr had found the amp box.

I found it's a good idea once you get the amps settings locked in to take a picture of them for reference.  Especially if kids have access to them. 

[BobRex]

That old servo stuff was primitive technology compared to what the Super-V uses. No comparison.

No argument from me Dannny, but remember LarryB's original comment was " I am curious as to how long it will take other manufacturers and designers to recognize the benefits of servo-controlled subs."  I was just trying to explain that there is a long history of manufacturers using servo control on bass drivers.  Yes, it was primitive compared to today, but it was SOTA back then.  I'm sure that 30-40 years from now your current implementation will also be considered primitive.

[MichaelHiFi]

I found it's a good idea once you get the amps settings locked in to take a picture of them for reference.  Especially if kids have access to them.

I'm still playing with the settings and trying to get to know what does what. To be honest, it's kind of confusing. It's also difficult to change setting from behind the speaker, run to the couch and judge whether you made and improvement or went backward. Wouldn't it be cool if there was an app that allowed adjustments from the couch.    I'm also moving the speakers around trying to gain separation of instruments and vocals. I have great depth and a fairly good central image. And the bass is frickin awesome.

I'd really like to have my Decware amp before the GTG. Unless of course I get Morgan and Creta to join us. Are you listening Morgan? He's got a Torii and an EE DAC  I'm waiting on sub amp interconnects which should arrive in about 2 weeks.

I'm totally pissed off at Magnolia lo-fi. Why is it that we can order something from say Sweden or China and get it within 2 weeks, but Worst Buy and Lo-Fi tell you 10 business days, then 4 weeks later they tell you it takes at least 6 weeks. We have a equipment stand for the TT ordered. Is it coming from the moon? Still, it shouldn't take 6 weeks! If I want to play a record, I need to reinstall my arm (no big deal) and reset the settings then remove when I'm done or Jr might remove for me. He's a born audio guy but hasn't learned "tracking force" yet. 
Rant over.

Plan on a GTG in about 2 to 4 weeks. I'll post a new thread on that event.

[morganc]

Hi Michael.....of course we would like to come and bring the Torii and I have two DAC's to bring, the EE Plus and the latest Tranquility SE.  and yes the 2-4 week range would be best for us also.


So glad that you are loving your system    It must be extra gratifying to know that you built them yourself

[MichaelHiFi]

Michael, thanks for the invite, but I think I'm a little far out to make a road trip of it (I'm in WI).  Would really like to (hopefully) meet a bunch of you all at RMAF this year (I'm going to try harder to make it out this time around!)

Let's just say that I'm fairly confident it would be "worth it" - all I ever seem to hear about these speakers is "best I've ever heard" from a lot of people who have heard/owned some gear far above my humble pay grade.  I've just got some logistics issues right now that keep me from just pulling the trigger (room, moving, and lack of DIY woodworking to keep it short).

Regarding room treatments and such, I know I might take some heat for this statement from folks who swear by measurements above all else, but bottom line (IMHO and all that, of course) - if your room looks great, sounds great, and makes you happy, you've done it "right", plain and simple.  Theory and measurements can be then used to "prove it" as well as give a more focused idea as to how to go about making "great" better without as much extra cost, trial, and error.   

Re: the kids -    Precious!

The Super V's seem very room friendly speakers. No doubt due to there open baffle design. Mine are well out into the room, and spread wide apart, maybe too wide right now. They are toed in but not facing the listener or "sweet spot" In fact, speaking of sweet spot, it seems pretty generous on the V's. It's not MBL territory, but it's definitely not Audio Physic territory either, the latter being "hold your head still and be amazed" otherwise, forget it.

I still wish to fix that first reflection point on the ceiling.

[MichaelHiFi]

Hi Michael.....of course we would like to come and bring the Torii and I have two DAC's to bring, the EE Plus and the latest Tranquility SE.  and yes the 2-4 week range would be best for us also.


So glad that you are loving your system    It must be extra gratifying to know that you built them yourself

My Hero's   

and you have the latest Tranquility. Would you mind picking up a DAC-41 too. I wish to compare all three... 

You bet, it's cool. I'll post a "lessons learned" for others. An ML (material list) would also be extremely useful!

[PDR]

I'm still playing with the settings and trying to get to know what does what. To be honest, it's kind of confusing. It's also difficult to change setting from behind the speaker, run to the couch and judge whether you made and improvement or went backward. Wouldn't it be cool if there was an app that allowed adjustments from the couch.   

When I built my V-1s I thought about that as well. I put 9' long cables from the amps to the speaker, lets me adjust while in my seat,although I have to bend down to the floor. Was afraid this might be a problem, but turns out not.
I have been playing around with REW.....its amazing how such a small adjustment or two on the sub amps can change the graph so dramatically.
Room treatments for me brought out the best in my V-1s...Glad I took the plunge
Your supers look beautiful Micheal, congrats!!

Perry