[seadogs1]

To me they look alot like the Old Gilmore Audio Loudspeakers at 10x the Gilmore price.

[berni]

seadogs1, look my previous post, now that we have discovered that the prices aren`t so "scary" anymore, we can relax ...
Maybe they look similar on paper, but we all want to listen to speakers,not only read the specs and adds.

[doug s.]

from what i read, $100k for the impulse is likely a minimum price.  the wave is $65k.  no pricing that i could find on the impact.  but, i would suspect, based on its using the same ribbon and two of the four 10" drivers in the wave, it would be at least $35k.  i think the mfr needs to charge 1/3-1/5 his asking price in order to be successful.

ymmv,

doug s.

[berni]

Please read my reply nr. 19, otherwise we will be stuck forever!

[doug s.]

Please read my reply nr. 19, otherwise we will be stuck forever!

i read that before i posted, thanks.  yust expressing my opinions, based on what i have read about these on the 'net...

ymmv,

doug s.

[Davey]

Actually, I guess, this type of speaker system is outside the normal business model and the price point almost becomes arbitrary.  100k...200k....what's the difference when the customer is most probably someone with a very large amount of disposable income.
In fact, the higher the price the more cache' the customer attains.    They would probably just be used on board his yacht tied up in Monaco harbor.
Another example of how upside down the "high end" audio industry has become.  It's no wonder this industry has ceased to be taken seriously.

Cheers,

Dave.

[ajzepp]

Actually, I guess, this type of speaker system is outside the normal business model and the price point almost becomes arbitrary.  100k...200k....what's the difference when the customer is most probably someone with a very large amount of disposable income.
In fact, the higher the price the more cache' the customer attains.    They would probably just be used on board his yacht tied up in Monaco harbor.
Another example of how upside down the "high end" audio industry has become.  It's no wonder this industry has ceased to be taken seriously.

Cheers,

Dave.

I've actually pondered this idea of ultra high end quite a bit. I work in the medical field and earn a solid income, but if I were ever to become legitimately wealthy I still don't think I could ever see myself buying speakers that cost tens of thousands of dollars. It really does get pretty crazy in terms of the pricing on some really high end gear. When you get into the ballpark of $10-15k, and you're looking at something like a Maggie 20.7, it's just really hard for me to believe that a $35-100k speaker is going to get me much further in terms of sound reproduction. I'm not referring to the SoulSonic stuff specifically, I'm just speaking in general terms here. I'm a firm believer in the law of diminishing returns, and when you start thinking of moving BEYOND a speaker like the 20.7, or maybe a DeVore Fidelity Silverback (just another higher end speaker I've spent time with) I think those returns are diminishing like a mofo!

[cujobob]

I don't know about sound quality but as far as looks, it's been thought up before.

[josh358]

I've actually pondered this idea of ultra high end quite a bit. I work in the medical field and earn a solid income, but if I were ever to become legitimately wealthy I still don't think I could ever see myself buying speakers that cost tens of thousands of dollars. It really does get pretty crazy in terms of the pricing on some really high end gear. When you get into the ballpark of $10-15k, and you're looking at something like a Maggie 20.7, it's just really hard for me to believe that a $35-100k speaker is going to get me much further in terms of sound reproduction. I'm not referring to the SoulSonic stuff specifically, I'm just speaking in general terms here. I'm a firm believer in the law of diminishing returns, and when you start thinking of moving BEYOND a speaker like the 20.7, or maybe a DeVore Fidelity Silverback (just another higher end speaker I've spent time with) I think those returns are diminishing like a mofo!

I think the law of diminishing returns does set in. Still, if you're Bill Gates -- the trick I think, at any price point, is to find the few components that outshine the others. There are always a few.

[doug s.]

Actually, I guess, this type of speaker system is outside the normal business model and the price point almost becomes arbitrary.  100k...200k....what's the difference when the customer is most probably someone with a very large amount of disposable income.
In fact, the higher the price the more cache' the customer attains.    They would probably just be used on board his yacht tied up in Monaco harbor.
Another example of how upside down the "high end" audio industry has become.  It's no wonder this industry has ceased to be taken seriously.

Cheers,

Dave.

it is definitely true that in many cases what is being sold is the high price itself.  some buyers might actually not be interested if it has a somewhat reasonable price.  in this particular case, looking at the product itself, it seems to me that $20-$30k might be considered reasonable.  still not cheap...

regarding the comment that the industry is not taken seriously, i respectfully disagree.  afaik, this has always been the case since the beginning of the industry.  hi-end audio has always been a lunatic fringe pursuit, and there have always been different segments of it - those who try to sell high price as a product itself, those who try to offer walue, but the product is still necessarily expensive, and those who try to offer hi-end sound for relatively bargain pricing.  and everything in between.  same as it ever was.   

ymmv,

doug s.

[jimdgoulding]

$100k.  Oh my goodness.  I take it these are just "statement" products and he doesn't expect to sell more than a few copies?

I don't understand the logic. 

Dave.

A 100k!  You have GOT to be shitting me?  What on earth could be the justification for that kind of price?  What, moon metal?   Remember diamond dust tweeters?  Magnepan just keeps lookin better and better for value in planar speakers and good for them.  I think value is healthy and sane.  I suppose that's because I'm middle class and appreciate rational thinking and wouldn't begin to appreciate music any more than if I weren't.  Think about it.  Real hard cause our future depends on it.

[berni]

Let's get it this way,your distributor wants to create the price,  your production costs are some 10% of the price, your profit another 10% and the distributor wants the 80% left, do you want to have a distributor like that?!!!
Such a small series production can be sold directly and to much normal price. As I was told that is the way it is going to be.
Alltough we must calculate and see that the production cost for a 20.7, 3.7 and 1.7 are much more similar that their price! The manufacturing costs to produce 20.7, 3.7 or 1.7 are roughly the same, they  probably differ for some $100, but the end prices are very different.
Why?
Rubber magnets, mylar foil and thin metal and wooden frame cost a lot less than neodymium magnets, AE woofers, thick ribbon poles, massive wooden frame and glass.
A speaker in small series and with much higher manufacturing must be more expensive than a MG.

[jimdgoulding]

To me they look alot like the Old Gilmore Audio Loudspeakers at 10x the Gilmore price.

They do.  I have a friend with Gilmores.

[JohnR]

What is it that makes this a "planar" loudspeaker?

[jimdgoulding]

Oh, yeah, right.  Misnomer on me, .  Wait, I didn't say they were.  I think the ribbons are planar, right?

[ajzepp]

A 100k!  You have GOT to be shitting me?  What on earth could be the justification for that kind of price?  What, moon metal?   

 

[berni]

Gilmore is a copy of Carver Amazing and all planar speakers of today like ribbons, planar magnetics, air motion transformers  (except ESLs)   evolved out of the first Schottky and Gerlach ribbon patent from 1924, are they all copies???


Are all boxed speakers copy of the Acoustic Research AR-1 and all cars with four wheels copy of Ford T model??

To say it again the price at CES2010 was put on the table by the distributor!!
The company wanted to sell them ranging from below 10k$ to about 30k$ ...

Also similar but different, and with no moon materials  :


Lotus group

$125.000

http://www.stereophile.com/ces2010/the_lotus_group_granada/index.html

$75.000

http://www.stereophile.com/content/lotus-groups-granada-g2

[josh358]

it is definitely true that in many cases what is being sold is the high price itself.

I learned a while back on the Asylum that economists refer to products of that kind as "Veblen goods":

"In economics, Veblen goods are a group of commodities for which people's preference for buying them increases as their price increases, as greater price confers greater status, instead of decreasing according to the law of demand. . . . The Veblen effect is named after economist Thorstein Veblen, who first pointed out the concepts of conspicuous consumption and status-seeking."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good

[josh358]

Berni, I think the cost difference of the various Maggies is more than you think. Sure, it doesn't cost much more to make a bigger MDF frame. But if you look at the more expensive Maggies, you add true ribbons -- much more expensive to build than quasi-ribbon or planar magnetic panels. More surface area -- that's also labor intensive, since the foil/wire is attached by hand. Double magnet assemblies -- again, they cost twice as much and require more elaborate construction. More drivers -- the small ones have essentially a single driver, the 3.x's have two, the 20.x's have three. More elaborate crossovers, you can see that on the schematics. Heavier, so shipping is more expensive. Costlier packing materials. So at every level you're adding labor and parts. In addition, the larger the model, the fewer are sold, so you have to amortize the engineering costs, production jigs, promotional costs, etc. over fewer units.

[doug s.]

To say it again the price at CES2010 was put on the table by the distributor!!
The company wanted to sell them ranging from below 10k$ to about 30k$ ...

this is fine - pricing in line w/what would seem normal.  curious that the mfr wouldn't speak up, and that he would let the distributor babble on, if this is the case.   at ces2011, the $100k/$65k numbers were being presented, w/the company owner there. 

berni, yust curious as to what relation you have w/these speakers?  you see pretty defensive about all this.  or, are you simply a proud slovenian?  this, i could understand!     these speakers do certainly look nice, even if the pricing seems to be a bit over the top.

doug s.