Favorite pentode/tetrode, and why?

JohnR · « **on:** 6 May 2004, 02:13 pm »

Hi Bill and others, just wondering what folks think to be their favorite output tubes. I've found in my vintage wanderings that I prefer EL34 amps, with the only other contender being a very "sweet" El84 amp. What are your thoughts?

lcrim · « **Reply #1 on:** 6 May 2004, 05:10 pm »

I have been trying to find a reasonably priced substitute for the NOS EL84 Mullard for my Decware Select.
Someone I trust told me that NOS Ei Elite EL84EG gold pins are really good tubes. I bought a quad from Revolution Guitar for $40 and I've been very pleased. The trick is to only buy tubes made before the plant was destroyed (in Yugoslavia) in the revolution. Apparently, present production is junk.
I hope I'm not cutting my own throat by posting this. Prices of NOS tubes are rising faster than the price of gasoline.

Bill Baker · « **Reply #2 on:** 6 May 2004, 05:40 pm »

Interesting. I use to think I had a favorite but after hearing various versions of many different tube amps the past year or so, I am having a diffiult time picking a "favorite".

Lately, I have been exposed to some very nice pieces and really like the 805 SET and 6P3P (6L6/KT66) tube types.

The EL34, followed by the 6P3P is a long time favorite for smooth, seductive listening...... KT88 for authority and dynamics and the EL84 for that sweet sound.

I do have to agree that there are not to many options for good, current production EL84s but as far as the EL34 and 6550/KT88 tubes, I do like a few of the newer productions with a personal favorite being the SED.

JohnR · « **Reply #3 on:** 9 May 2004, 12:40 pm »

6P3P?? I'm out of touch!!

I need some 6L6 types, I better look into those

Bill Baker · « **Reply #4 on:** 9 May 2004, 12:52 pm »

Quote

6P3P?? I'm out of touch!!

Hello JohnR,
The 6P3P and/or 6P3 are Chinese variations of the 6L6. I have actually come to like this tube quite a bit but I don't think you will come across it in the US. They are supplied with our Ming-Da MC34-B and also in our Jolida JD707.

Another option would be to try to find a good KT66 if you are bored with the 6L6.

I have played with the Svetlana and EH 6L6 in these amps as well as the ASL AV-20. I could not come up with a personal preference between these two tubes. Needed more time to listen.

Lucas_G · « **Reply #5 on:** 15 Mar 2006, 04:35 pm »

Quote from: Response Audio

Quote
6P3P?? I'm out of touch!!

Hello JohnR,
The 6P3P and/or 6P3 are Chinese variations of the 6L6. I have actually come to like this tube quite a bit but I don't think you will come across it in the US. They are supplied with our Ming-Da MC34-B and also in our Jolida JD707.

Another option would be to try to find a good KT66 if you are bored with the 6L6.

I have played with the Svetlana and EH 6L6 in these amps as well as the ASL AV-20. I could not come up with a personal preference between these two tubes. Needed more time to listen.

Hello Bill,

I have bought a chinese Amplifier that uses the 6P3 as a driver for the 2A3. Do you think I could better substitute that chinese tube?
Is the 6L6 a 100% equivalent, and can I substitute the 6P3 for a 6L6 without altering the amp?

Any help appreciated,

Lucas

Bill Baker · « **Reply #6 on:** 15 Mar 2006, 04:45 pm »

Quote

I have bought a chinese Amplifier that uses the 6P3 as a driver for the 2A3. Do you think I could better substitute that chinese tube?
Is the 6L6 a 100% equivalent, and can I substitute the 6P3 for a 6L6 without altering the amp?

Does you tube read 6P3P or just 6P3? Doing some research, I am not 100% sure about the 6P3 being a substitue for the 6L6. I have a chart here that list the 6P3 but who knows if this is accurate.

If it is a 6P3P, yes, the 6L6 or KT66 can be used. If it is a 6P3, hold off a bit. Can you tell me what amp it is?

Bill Baker · « **Reply #7 on:** 15 Mar 2006, 05:05 pm »

Just to follow-up. Many of the Chinese amplifiers do come with 6P3 output tubes which ARE 6L6/KT66 variations.
For example, many of the Ming-Da/Meixing products have 6P3 labeled tubes.

miklorsmith · « **Reply #8 on:** 15 Mar 2006, 05:13 pm »

Great topic! I've been tube-amp curious for some time. My tube experiences have been limited to a Modwright preamp and a CDP. So far, I feel like I'm chasing a chicken but all I can see are feathers. No, I'm not a farmer, just like the expression.

While there are many tube amp fans and many of them are happy to report on their experiences on tubes and amps, these experiences are not easily transferrable from one system/listener and another.

From a great amount of reading and thinking on this, I can forward the following thoughts:

Tube amps and their tubes are tremendously variable in properties, far more than their SS bretheren;

Power ratings first are hugely variable - SET amps are available with as little as 1 watt of output power. The SET crowd seems to think the lower the power, the more magical the amp. Elitist dogma? "If your speakers can't "do" 1 watt, don't even grace this room with your breath, sir. Everyone knows your hugely overblown 300B amps can't create the magic of a 205D." [Rule 1]

Within the SET crowd, the camps are further divided. 845 tubes can produce 18 standard watts, which is huge for SET. These amps could be used with most conventional speakers, as long as they don't present a difficult load. 300B's, 2A3's, and 45's are the most common tubes used for SET amps and provide a standard 8, 3-4, and 2 watts respectively. The current wisdom is that 45's make the best SET amps, but chances you have speakers that will work with those are slim. 300B's are considered meatier and prototypically tubier, but possibly fuzzier and slower by comparison. 2A3's are considered "the best", depending on the listener, falling somewhere between the 45's and 300B's.

Push-pull amps have the advantage of power, as two circuits are used and tubes are doubled up. These have the reputation of bigger dynamics and superior bass, which makes sense with their added output power. Of course, SET-heads point to Rule 1 and add that the added complexity translates to reduced life in the midband. Some people prefer PP amps, as the added power and headroom remove some of the limitations that SETties live with.

There are a huge number of PP amps and tubes to choose from. 200-watt tube farms are available, though it makes me shudder to think of retubing these monstrosities, but if you like big, inefficient speakers and love the sound of tubes, this might be the way to go.

Of course, there are also OTL amps which combine the wonderful attributes of low power and many, many tubes. I know nothing of them and they are truly a sect within a cult wrapped in an enigma.

Ultimately, it seems every tube-amp story is different. It's far from a plug-and-play decision. Bill at Response Audio is lucky enough to actually hear a lot of this stuff. Most of us aren't.

Me? I have very efficient speakers and have ordered a Yamamoto Sound Craft A-08s; a 45-based SET amp. It should be here in a couple weeks.

Lucas_G · « **Reply #9 on:** 15 Mar 2006, 06:24 pm »

Quote from: Response Audio

Quote
I have bought a chinese Amplifier that uses the 6P3 as a driver for the 2A3. Do you think I could better substitute that chinese tube?
Is the 6L6 a 100% equivalent, and can I substitute the 6P3 for a 6L6 without altering the amp?

Does you tube read 6P3P or just 6P3? Doing some research, I am not 100% sure about the 6P3 being a substitue for the 6L6. I have a chart here that list the 6P3 but who knows if this is accurate.

If it is a 6P3P, yes, the 6L6 or KT66 can be used. If it is a 6P3, hold off a bit. Can you tell me what amp it is?

Hi Bill,

thanks for your info.
I have ordered the amp in Hong Kong and it is still underway.
The seller calims they are 6P3P.
They look a bit strange though... Here is a picture: http://www.lingching.com/amp-06/R-2A3030.jpg

It should be those 2 black tubes on the right.

Any idea?

Lucas

Bill Baker · « **Reply #10 on:** 15 Mar 2006, 11:30 pm »

Wow Lucas, After seeing the picture, I don't know. They don't look like any 6L6 variation I have ever seen.

JoshK · « **Reply #11 on:** 16 Mar 2006, 12:39 am »

What about the vintage 46? suppose to be a fine tube.

I also acquired some Siemen C3G's and C3M's, which according to some are the bomb...

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #12 on:** 16 Mar 2006, 12:36 pm »

Quote from: miklorsmith

Great topic! I've been tube-amp curious for some time. My tube experiences have been limited to a Modwright preamp and a CDP. So far, I feel like I'm chasing a chicken but all I can see are feathers. No, I'm not a farmer, just like the expression. While there are many tube amp fans and many of them are happy to report on their experiences on tubes and amps, these experiences are not easily transferrable from one system/listener and another.

From a great amount of reading and thinking on this, ...

Ever the wordsmith, miklorsmith. And, you are clearly a farmer of sorts....you just get no dirt under your fingernails twiddling knobs in Seattle.

Thanks for that succinct synopsis - helpful as I, too, am investigating tube amplification for the first time and trying to sort it all out.

Bill, or anyone else, how do the 6V6 equipped amps rate?....they are revered by guitarists (as anyone that loves Mark Knopfler's crunchy guitar sound can relate)

Dusty Chalk · « **Reply #13 on:** 18 Mar 2006, 04:06 am »

I actually really like current production Ei Elite EL84G gold pins -- I spend several hours each day listening to them every day in my headphone amp at work, and will probably load my Manley Stingray with a matched octet of them once the current set of 6BQ5's give up the ghost. They do need lots of burn-in -- more so than any NOS tube I've ever heard. All new production tubes benefit from major amounts of burn-in time (like a full week of being on 24/7), some to surprisingly impressive levels.

Oh, and why do I prefer EL84's? I just like the way they sound -- it's the perfect balance between accurate and euphonic.

Lucas_G · « **Reply #14 on:** 19 Mar 2006, 12:13 pm »

Quote from: Response Audio

Wow Lucas, After seeing the picture, I don't know. They don't look like any 6L6 variation I have ever seen.

Hello Bill,

They are strange indeed. Here is another picture where one can see the letters 6P3P:
http://www.lingching.com/amp-06/r-80700050037.jpg

In fact they do resemble a 6V6 GT like pictured here:
http://www.supertnt.com/default/image/large/6V6GT.jpg

Bill, in case I would try to swap these 6p3p for others; what brand would you recommend?

With kind regards,

Lucas