[whytejon]

Hello again chaps!

As some of you know, i have the VR5SE Anniversary speakers, which after getting a serious mix up with speaker cables sorted out, i absolutely love - a long story. 

Anyway, i also use VSA interconnects and speaker cables and i am very pleased with the results.

HOWEVER, having not bought any hi fi gear for a couple of years, I'm starting to think i may look at cable upgrades.

I just wonder if anyone has heard, or uses VSA cables, and how they compare with other brands, for example MIT and Kubala Sonsa....??

[kernelbob]

I also have the VSA Masterbuilt interconnects and speaker cables.  I'd suggest that before you switch to something else that you try the VSA Masterbuilt Signature power cords.  They seem to work synergisticaly with the MB cabling throughout the rest of the system.  This is the link to the thread with my impressions of inserting the MB interconnects, speaker cables, and (lastly) powercords in my system.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=93029.0

Regards,
Robert

[JackD201]

I switched from all K-S Emotion including power cords to all Masterbuilt Signatures. As I still love the K-S I didn't sell them, I just moved them to my bedroom system. My take is that my main system (Vr-9 SE Mk.2, Lamm M1.2 for mids and highs, Lamm M2.2 for the bass modules) has better extension and clarity with the Masterbuilts. The Emotions have a tendency to warm up the sound and this forgiving nature makes it wonderful cables if you've got something sterile up the chain. I haven't got that anywhere upstream since I got the EERA Tentation player and as I like to alternate between Mullard CV2492s and Telefunken CCa redtips for the M1.2s, things got overripe with the Mullards. All in all my main system calls for a more transparent cable and that is what the Masterbuilts are. The Elations are also very transparent and were candidates.

Like Bob however, I think the star of the show is the power cord. I run my amps straight into the wall as recommended by the manufacturer. The difference between these cables and all else I've tried was like going with a top notch PLC but without the dynamic penalties that even something as robust as my V-Ray 2s showed (Because the amps had to share one dedicated line as opposed to into their 4 dedicated ones). In any case I found them to act as well as a PLC without needing 4 boxes and another 4 power cords.

The Caveat! Stone cold these cables are BRIGHT. They are very good after 100 hours but come into their own after 300 hours or more at which time I got tons more detail portrayed in a very relaxed manner.

[htradtk]

Hello everyone,

As a belated Christmas present to myself, I decided to purcahase an 8 foot pair of VSA Masterbuilt Signature bi-wire cables for my VR5 Anni's!! I decided not to have them cooked, I wanted to experience the break-in experience all over again. Just heard from my dealer today, they are undr construction and should get them in three weeks time. Will report on the break-in experience when I get them. Can't wait!

Henry

[whytejon]

Hi Henry,

Im sure you will be impressed with them, what are you using now??

I didn't get mine cooked initially, and i was impressed with them straight out the box.  To be honest, i didn't notice a massive difference during the burn in process, so i ended up getting them cooked as i didn't feel like they burned themselves in sufficiently.

When i got them back from the cooking process, yes they seemed to have a bit more detail, and perhaps a bit more air, but they sounded too bright, and un-natural.  It took about a month for them to settle back into a natural sound.

I started with the standard cable, but then my dealer recommended that i double them up, to effectively end up with a set of signature cables, and boy, that made a huge difference in every area. 

[htradtk]

whytejon,

Right now I'm using Analysis Plus Oval 8's. Do you or anyone out there know about how long the break-in time is on the VSA's? My power amp that I am using is the McIntosh MC352, great amp with 350 WPC.

Henry

[JackD201]

See my post above Henry   That's about 5 days non-stop play.

[htradtk]

Thanks Jack!

I am looking forward to the break in experience again! I'll be sending out a report when the cables come in and get installed. Since I'm not an electrical engineer, I have a question: What are the benefits of a high quality power cord do to your system? I have a Richard Gray power conditioner that seems to work very well, this was recommended by my dealer. All you electrical engineers out there are welcome to chime in.

Henry

ps. Jack, LOVE your system, which I could come visit!

[kernelbob]

Hi Henry,

If you're asking why power cords make a difference, I don't have answers other than opinions I've heard along the way-- I'm not an electrical engineer.  If you hear a good explanation, please share it.  I can tell you that they can make a huge difference.  The largest improvement I've heard, by far, has been with the VSA Masterbuilt Signature power cords.  See the link above where I detailed my experience moving to the VSA interconnects, speaker cables, and power cords.

The only way I've found to get someone to take powercords seriously is to have them hear the difference when I swap the VSA powercords out of my system.  I have to say, up until I first plugged them in, I didn't believe they could make the improvements they do.

One other note, mention has been made that they sound bright at first.  That wasn't my experience.  To me, out of the box they generate a much more accurate presentation of the timbre of instruments, making is much more easy to hear the clarinets, oboes, various types of horns, etc. differentiated from the rest of the orchestra.  I liken the initial presentation like a finely detailed line drawing of a scene.  As time passes during the break-in period (give them three to four weeks) the line drawing is fleshed out with colors, shadows, and palpability.

Regards, Robert

[es347]

Well I AM an electrical engineer and I would have to attribute the power cord phenomena to magic    Seriously now, I used to roll my eyes like most objectivists when it came to PCs but after trying a Lessloss PC on my cd player, to quote the Monkees, "now I'm a believer".  From an electrical standpoint it really makes no sense.  There should be no difference but there certainly is.  So, now to quote the Lovin' Spoonful, "Do you believe in magic?"....yep, sure do when it comes to power cords 

[JackD201]

Same here Gavin. I remember the first time I got after market PCs. I didn't hear any difference but I did it because they looked cool  It was weird having ICs that looked thicker then the power cords. Then I got my first Shunyata Python and it was all downhill from there. Granted the rest of my system and the rooms had changed too but I believe I am at a point where a blind folded guy would know if I switched PCs on them or not.

[htradtk]

Robert, Gavin and Jack,

Thanks for you info on power cords. I guess that will be my next purchase , not right now, down the road. I had thought of upgrading to the VR5 Mk2, but after I heard the price from my dealer (7,000), I had second thoughts. I was thinking of upgrading if the price had been between 2 and 3k. For 7k, that must be some damm good copper wiring!!

Henry

[Albert Von Schweikert]

Hello Audiophiles,
The VR-5 SE upgrade to the Anniversary Mk2 is expensive, but the upgrade consists of much more than just the internal wire (Analysis Plus is switched to Delphi Aerospace Single Crystal lab-grade copper with Quantum Noise Shielding).  We replace the old-version Audax Aerogel midrange with a new version that Audax and I designed together; the new midrange has a silver/aluminum color while the original cone was black, so that is how you can tell if the VR-5's have been upgraded from the outside of the cabinet.

We also add a new damping product made from rubber and carbon sheets inside the cabinets that act in conjunction with the artificial stone damping blocks to absorb internal sound waves.  This latest cabinet design sounds as good as solid aluminum, but is a fraction of the price, making it a very cost effective alternative to the really expensive systems made by Magico and YG.

Although the stock Mundorf top-of-the-line caps sound great, we add bypass caps made from pure copper foil and Teflon to the mix, which adds another degree of detail and harmonic richness.

The total upgrade requires the disassembly of the entire speaker system and the build-up of new crossover boards, along with the cost of the new parts, so all taken into consideration, it is a very good value if you wish to achieve the highest possible level of fidelity.  Jonathan Valin of The Absolute Sound told me that our RMAF demo was one of his favorite rooms, and at CES, we sold so many pairs that we are now back-ordered for three months.

Happy Listening!
Albert Von Schweikert

[Albert Von Schweikert]

A note regarding "why" power cords can make a difference in an audio system: the power cord is actually the first component in your system, and does not necessarily have to be lumped with the house wiring to be examined on a theoretical level. 

As Jack and others have mentioned, the Master-Built Signature power cords have noise reduction built into the design, enabling you to use your amplifiers or other components without line conditioners.  Although a few line conditioners sound great, almost all of them limit the current when power amplifiers need more current during crescendos, so you will easily hear the compression and loss of "jump" factor with many line conditioners.  Many reviewers tend to believe that active line conditioners add as many problems as they solve....

Although I am not at liberty to fully explain how the Master-Built noise reduction works, I can give you a few things to think about.  Hint #1: study the Bybee Quantum Noise Filters to get some idea of how a mix of different elemental metals work in powdered form when encapsulated around a wire.  Jack Bybee is a physicist who has worked for NASA and the military and has developed a new type of "filter" that eliminates the noise created when electrons flow down a conductor. Although it is true that Delphi Aerospace is not using this exact technology, their design is based on similar principles, as there are several visible types of powder coatings on the surface of the three "outer hull" shielding jackets, lying under the mesh.

Hint #2: the Master-Built Signature power cords have two patents resulting from aerospace technology that is used in space craft and satellites to reduce the effect of radiation from the Van Allen Belt and sun spots that contaminate the electrical signal when picked up by the wiring inside the space craft.  Essentially, their patents are based on cross-field interaction of the alternating signal flowing down six different conductor paths, which are spiraled out-of-phase with each other, resulting in a "null" and rejection of RFI and EMI that enter the cables from the exterior. Another patent is based on an "outer hull" shielding scheme, which is not quite visible through the exterior mesh, but can be felt if you squeeze the thick cable; there are three different types of metalized jackets that cover the wire bundles (25mm thick).

The shielding of interference from external noise from going into the power cord and then being fed into the component's power supply is half of the story; just as important is the effect of the 60Hz cycling of the 117V power line that radiates from the power cord into the interconnects and speaker cables lying closely together on the rear of the component stand and on the floor - shielding is critical to ensure the elimination of a.c. signal contamination.  Most power cords simply don't have noise reduction and are just large "hoses" of a heavy gauge to supply more current to the component.  Claims that cryogenic freezing of the wire is a major breakthough is just that: a claim.  Delphi tested this claim and found it to be of no value, the cables didn't measure or sound better.  However, "cooking" of the cables by using high current oscillation does align the molecules faster than playing music, but induces a bit of brightness initially that smooths out with a few hours of music.  I find that our cable cooker reduces the break-in time by 75% but is not a complete solution, you will also need to be patient and wait a couple of weeks before your system can finish the job.

Although the M-B Signature power cords are fairly expensive, they cost a fraction of a standard-design power cord (advertised to be the latest "wonder product") when combined with the cost of a noise reduction line conditioner. As we are the US Distributor for the Delphi Aerospace-designed "Master-Built" cables, we offer them with a 90-day money back guarantee.  To date, after selling more than 200 of these power cords, not one customer has returned them - in fact, our customers call to order the rest of the Signature cables when they hear the dramatic difference.  One of the Delphi engineers told me that the biggest improvement you can make to any stereo system is the reduction and/or elimination of "cable sound" by using the same technology in every cable of the system.  That is why we are now offering Mk2 versions of our speakers, so you can hear this dramatic effect from the power cord all the way to the speaker drivers.

Happy Listening,
Albert Von Schweikert

[es347]

Hi Albert...

You said...We replace the old-version Audax Aerogel midrange with a new version that Audax and I designed together; the new midrange has a silver/aluminum color while the original cone was black, so that is how you can tell if the VR-5's have been upgraded from the outside of the cabinet.

My nearly two year old annies have the silver colored midrange so does that mean that I have the latest and greatest Audax midrange?

[JackD201]

Yes you do Gavin. This midrange was found only on the Annies until late last year when Manny, Jim and I got them on our 9s and 11s. A rare case of trickle UP technology. In fact it was when Jim and I heard the Annies that we were totally convinced to bite the bullet. Mk.1 9s and 11s were after all 5 SEs on steroids, more accurately they were the core of 9s and 11s shoehorned into an internally modded SR body. Now they are Annies on steroids. Albert was referring to the 5 SE to Annie 2 upgrade. 

[htradtk]

Since Jonathan Valin raved over the Anni II, can we expect a review in a upcoming issue of TAS?

Henry

[es347]

Yes you do Gavin. This midrange was found only on the Annies until late last year when Manny, Jim and I got them on our 9s and 11s. A rare case of trickle UP technology. In fact it was when Jim and I heard the Annies that we were totally convinced to bite the bullet. Mk.1 9s and 11s were after all 5 SEs on steroids, more accurately they were the core of 9s and 11s shoehorned into an internally modded SR body. Now they are Annies on steroids. Albert was referring to the 5 SE to Annie 2 upgrade. 

Oops, my bad.  I failed to see that Albert was referring to the VR5 SE upgrade.  How unlike me to miss something like that...ha

[htradtk]

OK, now I'm confused over this Anni Mk2 upgrade.  Since Albert explained about the VR5 SE to Anni Mk2 upgrade. What about the original Anni to Anni Mk2 upgrade? I, like Gavin, have the silver/aluminum midrange. Any explaination?

Henry

[hometheaterdoc]

I dropped out of the upgrade path there for a while, but if my history is correct:

VR-5SE was the first of the new VR-5 models introduced (not to be confused with the old style single floorstanding box VR-5 models)... it ended up being 6 months to a year after the VR-4SR first made its debut.  Both of them used the exact same raw cabinets made in China in 4 veneer choices.  The standard veneer choices were african hazelwood and red cherry.  for $2K MSRP more, you could get African Ebony (my personal favorite) or Sycamore (more maple like light choice).  This was back when the VR-1, VR-2, VR-4jr were all made complete in china and sent via container back to the USA to be distributed.  VSA wanted to keep final assembly (and the intellectual property around their crossovers, etc.) in house for the upper end models starting with VR-4SR and wouldn't have the complete speakers made overseas.  So they got raw cabinets shipped to them with the container loads of the "retail line" VR-1, VR-4jr, etc. and they did final assembly at the factory in CA.

VR-4SR were originally $8K MSRP standard veneer and $10K for upgrade veneer.
VR-5SE was originally $16K MSRP for standard veneer and $18K for upgrade veneer.

The only way they were able to hit those price points was because of the cabinet costs being so low by being made in china.  I think they got quotes of $5K their cost from USA cabinet shops to do the same boxes.  No way you can hit $8K MSRP for the finished speaker when the raw boxes cost the manufacturer $5K...

The VR-5SE had only been out for around a year when the audax aerogel woofer situation came up.  I think the plan was to buy up all the stock of the aerogel woofers and use them on the 5, 7, 9, and 11 models for as long as they could.  They would use a new midrange on the 4SR and call it the MKII or something.  I think the MKII version of the VR-4 came first... then they eventually had to cave and do a new midrange version of the 5SE as well because they didn't have enough stock, or Albert just couldn't stop tinkering and improving the speaker and that's where the collaboration with audax came in on the new midrange....

Around this time I backed away from the line for a while.  So I'm a bit blurry on versions from this point.  They were in the process of eliminating the whole retail line of speakers and going back to the core product of upper end 2 channel speakers.  So no more VR-1s, 2s, LCR-15s, 4jrs, etc.  That was one of my core products given that I have the business name "The Home Theater Doctor".  I sold a *lot* of the modestly priced stuff because it was a steal at its price points and you could put together killer complete surround packages with it that also did very good 2 channel sound.  The large two channel speakers didn't sell as briskly for me because of the price points.. so when you stopped the chinese manufacture of VR-1s, etc., so too went the source for the raw cabinets for 4SR and 5SE..... By bringing the cabinet construction back to the USA, the prices had to go up pretty substantially to offset those significantly higher cabinet manufacture costs... and the resulting increases in MSRP prices for VR-4 and VR-5 further pushed them out of the reach of my typical home theater customer.

I know the multi-layer damping technique came along somewhere in this mix as well...So with USA built cabinets, a new midrange driver, and the triple layer cabinet construction, the VR-5SE speaker model was no more....  VR-5 Anniversary was a new edition of the original VR-5SE.  I'm sure there was a transition phase there where there might have been some hybrid models...  But the version 1 of VR-5 Anniversary has been in existence now for a while.

I think the new MKII version of the Anniversary is a small tweak to the design.  From what I've seen posted, the only difference is that instead of using Analysis Plus internal hookup wire from binding posts to crossover boards and crossover boards to drivers, it comes wired with the Delphi wire used in the VSA branded speaker cables.... other than the hookup wire, I don't think there are any other differences...  I'm sure someone will correct me, though if I'm wrong...