nnck's Daedalus-Modwright 2-channel system

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jtwrace

Re: nnck's Daedalus-Modwright 2-channel system
« Reply #40 on: 12 Jan 2012, 12:55 pm »
In my room I have book and record cases behind the listening position for dispersion and diffusion.
Laura
:nono:  Which doens't do anything...

vinyl_lady

Re: nnck's Daedalus-Modwright 2-channel system
« Reply #41 on: 12 Jan 2012, 02:27 pm »
:nono:  Which doens't do anything...

Not true. They do an effective job dispersing, diffusing and scattering the sound waves because the books, records and other items create multiple uneven (not flat) surfaces. They are part of the acoustical treatment design engineered by Rives Audio for the room. There is a picture in my gallery.

Laura
« Last Edit: 14 Jan 2012, 02:24 am by vinyl_lady »

jtwrace

Re: nnck's Daedalus-Modwright 2-channel system
« Reply #42 on: 12 Jan 2012, 02:31 pm »
Not true. They do an excellent job dispersing and diffusing the sound waves because the books, records and other items create multiple uneven (not flat) surfaces. They are part of the acoustical treatment design engineered by Rives Audio for the room. There is a picture in my gallery.

Laura
OK.  So you've measured the affect?  I'd love to see it!

FYI
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=91632.msg910697#msg910697

http://www.realtraps.com/video_diffusors.htm


I've never seen a measureable change with bookshelfs or Cd racks.  Never.

vinyl_lady

Re: nnck's Daedalus-Modwright 2-channel system
« Reply #43 on: 12 Jan 2012, 07:20 pm »
OK.  So you've measured the affect?  I'd love to see it!

FYI
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=91632.msg910697#msg910697

http://www.realtraps.com/video_diffusors.htm


I've never seen a measureable change with bookshelfs or Cd racks.  Never.

Jason,

I have never been into measurements, I leave that to the engineers. I trust my ears. All I know is that before I put up the bookshelves and filled them with records, books and a few nick-naks, the reverberation and reflection off the back wall was very pronounced, especially at any decent volume level. When I first discussed room treatments with Rives Audio they said I would need treatments on the back wall. I told them I intended to have floor to ceiling book cases filled with books and records across most of the back wall and they said that will work. I noticed a a very audible improvement in the clarity of the music at the listening position with the bookcases before I installed the bass traps, front wall dispersion, side wall absorption and dispersion panels and back ceiling absorption panels. That's all I need to know. I could care less about measurements.

Cheers,

Laura

dodgealum

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Re: nnck's Daedalus-Modwright 2-channel system
« Reply #44 on: 15 Jan 2012, 05:39 pm »
Since the subject has transitioned to room treatments I was wondering if any of you are aware of products that work to reduce bass anomalies and absorb sound that look like art and not audio geek products. For example, if you look at the gallery photos of Dan Wrights listening room he appears to have flat panels that look pretty nice. (I have asked him what they are but he is at CAS right now). I have the ability to place bass traps in the rear corners of my listening (living) room and also would like to hang something above my head on the rear wall to absorb or diffuse or deflect sound. However, because this is our living room and not a dedicated listening space (i.e. "man cave") I cannot use the typical products--they must have a high WAF. Thoughts? BTW, you can normally see my system photos (which show the room a little) on the Audiogon under the same user name but that site is under construction so you may not be able to look there at the moment. Thanks for your suggestions.

vinyl_lady

Re: nnck's Daedalus-Modwright 2-channel system
« Reply #45 on: 15 Jan 2012, 06:19 pm »
Mark, I believe the art panels in Dan's room are made by GIK Acoustics.

nnck

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Re: nnck's Daedalus-Modwright 2-channel system
« Reply #46 on: 4 Feb 2012, 10:01 pm »
Well I believe my DA 1.1 speakers have completely broken in now. I've spent quite a bit of time doing some critical listening the past week or so. All I can say is "OMG!" and "WOW!". And I should add "Holy S***!" and "F***ing-A!"

Seriously, these some mighty impressive speakers. Certainly, the best little ol' me has heard. There really isnt much I could say that hasnt already been covered. But bottom line is that the music just sounds SO REAL. They have a very full, life-like sound that is just palpable. It's so easy to hear the body of the instruments, the attack of the drums - it's like they are just presented to you.

There is some substantial weight to the bottom end, and they also have a (very) slight added midrange warmth. This works great in my room and with my listening habits. IMO, this makes them a bit forgiving. So my high-end audio recordings sound fantastic, and my not-so-high-end recordings sound...well...fantastic! I have A LOT of recordings, so this is important to me - I love music too much to limit myself to only the most pristine sounding recordings.

And to top it all off, I dont hear what I would call a lack of detail at all. I was a little afraid that if anything, this would be where the trade-off would lie with this model. But all the detail I want is still there. When it come right down to it, they are just really EASY to listen to.

Kinger

Re: nnck's Daedalus-Modwright 2-channel system
« Reply #47 on: 5 Feb 2012, 12:56 am »
Awesome.  I've never heard the Daedalus speakers, but hope to some day even though they are out of my price range for the foreseeable future.

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Re: nnck's Daedalus-Modwright 2-channel system
« Reply #48 on: 5 Feb 2012, 06:21 pm »
Well I believe my DA 1.1 speakers have completely broken in now. I've spent quite a bit of time doing some critical listening the past week or so. All I can say is "OMG!" and "WOW!". And I should add "Holy S***!" and "F***ing-A!"

Seriously, these some mighty impressive speakers. Certainly, the best little ol' me has heard. There really isnt much I could say that hasnt already been covered. But bottom line is that the music just sounds SO REAL. They have a very full, life-like sound that is just palpable. It's so easy to hear the body of the instruments, the attack of the drums - it's like they are just presented to you.

There is some substantial weight to the bottom end, and they also have a (very) slight added midrange warmth. This works great in my room and with my listening habits. IMO, this makes them a bit forgiving. So my high-end audio recordings sound fantastic, and my not-so-high-end recordings sound...well...fantastic! I have A LOT of recordings, so this is important to me - I love music too much to limit myself to only the most pristine sounding recordings.

And to top it all off, I dont hear what I would call a lack of detail at all. I was a little afraid that if anything, this would be where the trade-off would lie with this model. But all the detail I want is still there. When it come right down to it, they are just really EASY to listen to.

thank you! it really does make the work worthwhile when someone truly appreciates them. I spent a bit of time with John trying to help him select the right model. the DA-1.1 does have very slightly added body and can be a bit more forgiving of lesser recordings which I felt would be important here. Glad it worked out.
thanks again!

lou

dodgealum

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Re: nnck's Daedalus-Modwright 2-channel system
« Reply #49 on: 7 Feb 2012, 07:32 pm »
Hey:

Glad to hear you are enjoying your DA-1.1's. I wonder now that you have them broken in whether you would be willing to share your thoughts on how the DA-1.1's compare to the Acoustic Zen Adagio's which you replaced. I think there may be folks out there who have not heard of Daedalus or have and are interested but have yet to hear the speakers in person who may be wondering how they compare to other models with which they are familiar. I have written and spoken often about how my Daedalus compared with the Harbeth Compact 7ES-2's that they replaced and have gotten emails from folks who appreciated the contrast since that is such a well known design. Anyway, just a thought if you can tear yourself away from your new speakers for a few minutes!

On another note, I was reading in the recent TAS about the design refinements that went into the new Wilson Alexandria XLF. Interestingly, after experimenting with a wide range of exotic tweeter materials David Wilson chose a silk dome for the new model. The reviewer was able to compare the latest with the earlier version and noted an increased smoothness in the upper midrange/lower treble region. Just wondering Lou why you also selected a soft dome for your models rather than some type of metal or exotic and what you think is special about the Eton, which is rarely seen in the field. I was thinking about this last night while listening to some acoustic guitar and then later chamber music and really find the high frequency response on the DA-1.1's to be extended, natural and sweet--lovely to listen to and never drawing attention to that range.

Daedalus Audio

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Re: nnck's Daedalus-Modwright 2-channel system
« Reply #50 on: 7 Feb 2012, 10:10 pm »
Hey:

Glad to hear you are enjoying your DA-1.1's. I wonder now that you have them broken in whether you would be willing to share your thoughts on how the DA-1.1's compare to the Acoustic Zen Adagio's which you replaced. I think there may be folks out there who have not heard of Daedalus or have and are interested but have yet to hear the speakers in person who may be wondering how they compare to other models with which they are familiar. I have written and spoken often about how my Daedalus compared with the Harbeth Compact 7ES-2's that they replaced and have gotten emails from folks who appreciated the contrast since that is such a well known design. Anyway, just a thought if you can tear yourself away from your new speakers for a few minutes!

On another note, I was reading in the recent TAS about the design refinements that went into the new Wilson Alexandria XLF. Interestingly, after experimenting with a wide range of exotic tweeter materials David Wilson chose a silk dome for the new model. The reviewer was able to compare the latest with the earlier version and noted an increased smoothness in the upper midrange/lower treble region. Just wondering Lou why you also selected a soft dome for your models rather than some type of metal or exotic and what you think is special about the Eton, which is rarely seen in the field. I was thinking about this last night while listening to some acoustic guitar and then later chamber music and really find the high frequency response on the DA-1.1's to be extended, natural and sweet--lovely to listen to and never drawing attention to that range.
Someone else pointed out that Wilson had changed to a soft dome... maybe they're on to something?    When I did the redesign in 2007 I evaluated many tweeters including some of the very 'top rated' popular ones (Revalator etc)and to my ears the Eton won hands down in terms of clear, natural sound. the exotic and metalized domes all were fatiguing and I felt drew excessive attention to the highs... (what is referred to as showroom wow).
In some sense that is legit as some people do want their very expensive speakers to draw attention... to 'stand out', those are certainly the easier sell.  I prefer that the speaker simply be as much an open window to the source as possible, so the natural fiber dome tweeter is a no-brainer. just part of the voicing for an accurate yet non-analytical sound, eh?

on comparing the AZ Adagio, there is a substantial price difference so any comparison would have to bear that in mind.  even if he felt the Adagio are no match for the DA-1.1 it is not a slam on the AZ, Robert Lee did a great job in raising the bar on what a $4000 speaker can do.
of course I like to think the DA-1.1 raises the bar on what a $10,000 speaker can do :wink:

thanks,
lou


Bill Baker

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Re: nnck's Daedalus-Modwright 2-channel system
« Reply #51 on: 8 Feb 2012, 12:39 am »
I am a fan of ribbon tweeters as well as textile come tweeters. I find that the textile domes offer a smoother, more natural presentation. In many speakers using textile domes, I desire a bit more extension in the upper end which may simply be in the design as they use tweeters I know are capable of a better sense of air. With the Ulysses, I do not find myself wanting more and very happy with the upper end presentation. They never comes across as lacking up top nor are they ever overwhelming in any part of the presentation. Daedalus are still one of my favorite speakers after all these years.

figcon

Re: nnck's Daedalus-Modwright 2-channel system
« Reply #52 on: 8 Feb 2012, 02:07 am »
After owning a lot of speakers over the years, it's pretty obvious to me that Lou has done a great job integrating all the drivers into his different speaker systems. The tweeter is a great example and after so many years listening to Daedalus speakers, the one word we all keep coming to with them is musical.  If a speaker is not balanced properly, which most are not, they won't sound musical, no matter what electronics you throw at it.

One thing that separates Lou's speakers from rest is his belief in using all natural materials in the construction of his speakers. From the unique cabinets, to the driver materials to the surrounds on those drivers, all the materials are found in nature.

I also want to relay a story that serves as an example of another aspect of Daedalus speakers and that is their sensitivity and power handling. I recently celebrated my 60th birthday and my wonderful wife, Hellen, decided to throw me a party. We ate, drank, listened to music on my stereo and then the dancing started. We played stuff very loudly, including Michael Jackson's Thriller, and played it for several hours, with only our bodies tired. I can't think of another speaker I've heard that I could stand to listen to for that long and that loudly. We sure did have a good time.

Oh.....and I know who told Lou about the Wilson speaker using a soft dome. It the best speaker Wilson makes now and should be at it's price...The tweeter they have been using all these years has been the main reason I've never been even the slightest bit interested in owning a pair of their speakers. Great company and great products, but as different from the Daedalus sound as the night is from the day.

nnck

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Re: nnck's Daedalus-Modwright 2-channel system
« Reply #53 on: 8 Feb 2012, 04:47 am »
Hey:
Glad to hear you are enjoying your DA-1.1's. I wonder now that you have them broken in whether you would be willing to share your thoughts on how the DA-1.1's compare to the Acoustic Zen Adagio's which you replaced. I think there may be folks out there who have not heard of Daedalus or have and are interested but have yet to hear the speakers in person who may be wondering how they compare to other models with which they are familiar.

Well, I have to say that these 2 sets of speakers sound quite a bit different from one another. And Lou is right - considering that the DA1.1s cost considerably more, I'd be pretty surprised (not to mention, upset) if they didnt perform quite a bit better. And the short answer is that they most definitely do. But IMO, they especially excel in the areas of the smoother and more liquid midrange that provide so much body to the instrument and vocal sounds, and in the deeper and more extended bass. I really think this has a lot to do with why they sound so natural and musical. And why so many people consider them to be so non-fatiguing.

When I got the Adagios, I was replacing a pair of Vandersteen 2Ci's that I'd lived with for about 25 years! I felt the Adagios were a nice step up. They are all around excellent speakers, well worth the money, and a great value at their price point. Anyone looking for a pair of speakers in that price range can definitely put them towards the top of their audition list. IMO, they do detail (jaw-dropping) and imaging at a level quite close to the DA1.1s. This is most likely due to that circular ribbon tweeter. However, because the sound isnt quite as "full-bodied" in the midrange and bass regions to balance it out, this ultra-level of detail does call attention to itself somewhat. This is not so much of a knock at the Adagios - Frankly, I find that this is what many, many hi-end speakers at that particular price point actually do. A lot of people seem to love that sound. And I cant argue with them really - it can be very striking to hear. And after all, it is all just a matter of personal preference.

I myself, also loved the added detail and the better imaging that I got from the Adagios over the Vandersteens. But for me personally, I decided that if I wanted a speaker that I could stick with (hopefully for 25+ years again), I needed a speaker that approached things in a different way - something that could do the detail and imaging like many of these hi-end speakers, but added a 'bigger', 'fuller' and more balanced sound. I also quickly determined that I was going to have to spend considerably more money.

After I chose the DA 1.1s, and while I was waiting for the new speakers to arrive, I have to say that I was actually a bit worried that I might lose some of that greater detail and imaging I got with the Adagios. I thought that, if anything, that is where the trade off might be. But after a lot of critical listening, I find that all that very fine detail that comes along with the higher frequencies is still present in the DA1.1s - it just doesnt call attention to itself so much. Again, it's personal preference, but this is the type of sound I prefer - 'natural' and 'musical', instead of just 'hi-fi'. So far, I'm thinking I made a great choice.

Rocket_Ronny

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Re: nnck's Daedalus-Modwright 2-channel system
« Reply #54 on: 15 Feb 2012, 06:11 pm »

Thanks for sharing your journey. Much appreciated.

You asked: 

Quote
I'd like to get yours and others impressions of my initial question. Let me phrase it again: What would be more ideal: A) having speakers 8' apart, 1.5' from the wall behind them and sitting 10' away (current placement) or B) having speakers 10' apart, about 3' from the wall behind them and sitting 18-20' away

For me, a realistic, large soundstage, as 3D as possible, is my first criteria. So I would answer neither option.

Have you tried your speakers in the opposite direction, so you are sitting along the short wall? I would try putting your seat about 1-2 feet from either short wall, try both, and your speakers near mid way into the room, or near where the dividing wall ends.

With only 14' width you will have to have the speakers close to the side walls. Try pulling the speakers as far forward as you can and as far apart as possible. Angle them in to help stop reflections off the side walls. I am talking about having the speakers about 9' away and 9-11' apart. This will give you 12 or more feet behind them. You will give up some bass and impact perhaps, but you will gain a stunning, real 3D soundstage.

Of course, I am highly biased.

Rocket_Ronny

diofan56

Re: nnck's Daedalus-Modwright 2-channel system
« Reply #55 on: 13 Apr 2012, 03:42 am »
Hi there!

What does "AP" the speakers mean?

Dave

nnck

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Re: nnck's Daedalus-Modwright 2-channel system
« Reply #56 on: 13 Apr 2012, 01:43 pm »
Hi there!

What does "AP" the speakers mean?

"AP" is an option available for the crossover of most Daedalus speakers:

"With this option we have removed any electrolytic capacitors in our crossovers and replaced them with high voltage poly and teflon capacitors and the highest quality resistors, carefully matching all components for perfect balance. This has been a painstaking process as we didn't just substitute new parts but selected specific capacitors and resistors for optimum synergy."

Read more about it here:
http://www.daedalusaudio.com/AP-Option.html

and see this thread:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=80203.0

Daedalus Audio

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Re: nnck's Daedalus-Modwright 2-channel system
« Reply #57 on: 13 Apr 2012, 03:00 pm »
"AP" is an option available for the crossover of most Daedalus speakers:

"With this option we have removed any electrolytic capacitors in our crossovers and replaced them with high voltage poly and teflon capacitors and the highest quality resistors, carefully matching all components for perfect balance. This has been a painstaking process as we didn't just substitute new parts but selected specific capacitors and resistors for optimum synergy."

Read more about it here:
http://www.daedalusaudio.com/AP-Option.html

and see this thread:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=80203.0
thanks NNCK!
the AP crossover is now standard on the Athena and Ulysses, I highly recommend it on the other models. the AP makes a huge difference in many ways, among them it makes an already easy to drive speaker pretty much effortless for any amp.

thanks,
lou