Acoustic Room Treatment

DVV · « **Reply #20 on:** 3 Feb 2003, 10:25 pm »

It just struck me, what with Marbles' joint - we are wrong people.

Why bother with treating the room, when we can treat ourselves with some cool psychotropic additives and enhancements to listening pleasure? Why do bits and pieces, when we can go for the BIG picture?

Marbles, you are a genius!

Where was it you worked, DEA?

Cheers,
DVV

Marbles · « **Reply #21 on:** 3 Feb 2003, 10:37 pm »

Quote from: DVV

Dig the unsmoked joint in the right lower corner!

Hey Marbles, your wife know about this? The joint, I mean?

Cheers,
DVV

I think that sofa must have been left over from my college days

Psychicanimal · « **Reply #22 on:** 4 Feb 2003, 01:07 am »

Try this site and save money:

www.foambymail.com

eric the red · « **Reply #23 on:** 4 Feb 2003, 02:15 am »

Nice link with great selection and prices-Thanks

MaxCast · « **Reply #24 on:** 4 Feb 2003, 03:19 am »

Dan Banquer, you said to cover all the back wall and the sides....then you said cover behind the speaekrs and out along the sides. By back wall, do you mean the wall behind the speakers or the wall behind the listening position?

Dan Banquer · « **Reply #25 on:** 4 Feb 2003, 10:44 am »

Max: The wall behind the speakers. On the side walls come up about 3 to 4 feet or so. Cover as much of this area as possible. I have listed a place and part number earlier in this thread for acoustic foam panels; others have given their recommendations also. Thicker is usually better because it will extend the absorption to lower frequencies. Hope this helps.

Dan Banquer · « **Reply #26 on:** 4 Feb 2003, 01:41 pm »

I would like to ask a small favor to folks who have posted on this thread and to those who have not but are reading it.
For those of you who mange to implement as best as you can the Live End/ Dead End, I would like you to post your evaluations of before and after. I would also like you to report the cost of implementing Live End/ Dead End, and do you think it was worth the effort.
I would like to thank everyone who has posted on this thread, ( even Pimp Daddy Marbles) and especially to those who have posted different sources of vendors.
Gentleman: I await with your results.

Marbles · « **Reply #27 on:** 4 Feb 2003, 02:17 pm »

Dan,

My room is not setup for that, as I have a built in bar near the back of my room (what a surprise!) with my listening sofa right in front of it.

I have a brick fireplace wall floor to ceiling 10' wide that starts immeadiately at the speaker on that side, and an open room on the other side.

I have a TV and 2 equipment racks between the speakers approx. 6" behind the speakers.

Imaging with the "open side" speaker was always great. Before the acoustic treatment the fireplace side speaker didn't get much outside that speaker. With 4" of foam from hearth to mantle (48" high) and 48" in front of the speaker the imaging is now almost perfectly balanced.

I then put a 2' x 2' x 4" panal on the TV side of each speaker to stop any reflections from hitting the TV.

This helped to unsmear some of the higher frequencies (didn't even know they were smearing) but did not seem to help much with the depth of the soundstage. I've only recently tried this so it could be software related as well.

Xi-Trum · « **Reply #28 on:** 4 Feb 2003, 02:39 pm »

Sure, Dan. I'll definitely post my impressions when I have things in place.

I see now that the thicker the foam, the lower frequency adsorption. But which type of foam is most effective: eggcrate, wedge foam, pyramid foam, or wall tiles? Or are they pretty much the same and really depends on taste and style?

Thanks.

Dan Banquer · « **Reply #29 on:** 4 Feb 2003, 02:55 pm »

Check the part number at parts express that I posted earlier. Parts express has a picture with it. I believe it's a pyramid structure.

MaxCast · « **Reply #30 on:** 4 Feb 2003, 08:09 pm »

I bought 16 2'x2'x4" wegies from Danny (thanks Dan!) I have yet to put them up, but will shortly. Only $85 shipped. Report to follow.

There is also a company that advertises on Agon that sells foam in many different colors. If I remember correctly it also wasn't too bad of a deal.

Anyway, my room is 20x25. Speakers are on the sides of a 65" tv/rack (I know) and about 8" in front of it. The left speaker is 48" from the rear and side wall. There is an open stairs and couch dirctly to the left of this speaker. The right speaker is 48" from the rear and about 64" from the right wall. This right wall has a double door that opens to another room. I listen about 8' back. I have a fireplace behind me about 7'. I was going to put a 4'x4' section behind each speaker and use the rest to put on the fire place (removeable so I don't burn the basememt up). My speakers are monitors and I will center the 4x4 foam behind the speakers. If there are no recommendations I will report on this setup later.

Thanks,

Dan Banquer · « **Reply #31 on:** 4 Feb 2003, 08:55 pm »

Hi Max;
If the fireplace is not behind the speakers that is not an immediate concern. If the fireplace is behind the speakers than be careful here. Please check the area you are going to cover on the fireplace and see how hot it gets and also check with the manufacturer of the acoustic foam for any undesirable effects if the foam reaches a cetain temperature. Most reputable companies have made the foam to be flame retardant, however the fumes due to overheating could be a problem. Safety first Max.
I'm not sure from your description of the room but if you cover the wall behind the TV rack I think that will help too.

MaxCast · « **Reply #32 on:** 4 Feb 2003, 09:34 pm »

Thanks Dan. The FP is on the oposite side of the room of the speakers. I would only place them there if they were removable to avoid a fire hazard

I am going to try some there temporarily because that is the only place I can detect a slight echo from a "clap" or "hey." All I need is some very valuable time to implement.

Others, what have you used to mount the foam to? I am thinking of gluing it to some peg board as long as the peg board is rigid (wont warp) enough.

Dan Banquer · « **Reply #33 on:** 4 Feb 2003, 09:43 pm »

Hi Max;
I stapled the stuff right to the wall. Remember; my lab is in the attic and wife acceptance factor is not an issue. Your idea of using peg board sounds like a good way to start. That way you can move the stuff around for best results. As for me I just went and stapled it up strait out.

DVV · « **Reply #34 on:** 4 Feb 2003, 10:24 pm »

Quote from: Marbles

Quote from: DVV
Dig the unsmoked joint in the right lower corner!

Hey Marbles, your wife know about this? The joint, I mean?

Cheers,
DVV

I think that sofa must have been left over from my college days

Hah, a likely story! But then, that might explain the strange stains ...

Cheers,
DVV

Xi-Trum · « **Reply #35 on:** 4 Feb 2003, 10:46 pm »

Quote from: MaxCast

I am thinking of gluing it to some peg board as long as the peg board is rigid (wont warp) enough.

MaxCast, that's my plan also. Glue the acoustic foam to the peg boards and hang them. That way, it's also easy to A/B to determine the effectiveness of the treatment, since the peg boards are removable.

BOK · « **Reply #36 on:** 5 Feb 2003, 03:19 am »

Guys, you may want to try affixing a small strip of velcro (instead of glue) to hang/secure the foam squares in place.

You may abandon the pegboard concept some day --- and lo and behold, you are tearing off the glued foam and leaving chunks behind on the board.
Small "dual" pieces of velcro work fine, as the weight of each foam piece is nothing. Also allows you to spot treat and move the velcro foam pieces around with ease.
Just a thought. My own experience led me to the velcro.

DVV · « **Reply #37 on:** 5 Feb 2003, 07:42 am »

Odd nobody mentioned acoustic treatment of tweeters in speakers.

I refer to dome tweeters. It's always a good idea to cut out a surround for them, using say velcro or some such, box edge to box edge, surrounding the tweeter as much as you can without inhibiting it. It's an old trick, for example, AR have been using it since about 1984.

The idea is to cut tweeter refraction off speaker sides, extending the effect of narrow boxes. It usually produces a cleaner and clearer tweeter sound. At first, it may appear to be a little dryer than it was, but listen carefully and you'll notice it's also better defined, with less smearing.

However, while to the best of my knowledge it always works, the ultimate effect will depend on actual speaker and tweeter. Some react more, some less, but given the price, it's a tweak well worth its while.

Cheers,
DVV

Jay S · « **Reply #38 on:** 5 Feb 2003, 07:53 am »

I'm using strips of velcro to hold my Echobuster acoustic panels to the wall. Works fine. These panels have a wood frame so I supplemented the glue on the velcro strips with staples to secure them to the frame. The matching strip of velcro attached to the wall with the adhesive on the strip.

MaxCast · « **Reply #39 on:** 5 Feb 2003, 12:40 pm »

Quote from: DVV

Odd nobody mentioned acoustic treatment of tweeters in speakers.

I refer to dome tweeters. It's always a good idea to cut out a surround for them, using say velcro or some such, box edge to box edge, surrounding the tweeter as much as you can without inhibiting it. It's an old trick, for example, AR have been using it since about 1984.

The idea is to cut tweeter refraction off speaker sides, extending the effect of narrow boxes. It usually produces a cleaner and clearer tweeter sound. At first, it may appear to be a little dryer than it was, but listen carefully and you'll notice it's also better defined, with less smearing.

However, while to the best of my knowledge it always works, the ultimate effect will depend on actual speaker and tweeter. Some react more, some less, but given the price, it's a tweak well worth its while.

Cheers,
DVV

I am assuming you are talking on the out side of the speaker. I did that with a pair of Paradigms and it had a nice subtle effect in a rather live room. But since the wife and kids commandeered the living room I have been banished to the basement....which as worked well as there is no WAF down there

BOK, the velcro is a good idea too. If I use glue I plan on using small amounts for the reasons you described.