Please help! Do I need a receiver or processor or switch? Which models?

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Ichinichi

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Hi gurus,

I need some direction to find a used receiver that will do what this converter switch does but with a better processor chip for better downmixing of multichannel hdmi audio (thanks wilsynet).

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011008&p_id=8146&seq=1&format=2



Please help?
« Last Edit: 27 Dec 2011, 08:49 pm by Ichinichi »

Phil A

Re: What has 3+ HDMI in, 1+ HDMI out, stereo analog preamp out?
« Reply #1 on: 23 Dec 2011, 06:46 pm »
have you looked at accessories4less.com.  They are authorized internet for a few manuf. and have factory refurbs. with warranty at good prices

Ichinichi

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Re: What has 3+ HDMI in, 1+ HDMI out, stereo analog preamp out?
« Reply #2 on: 23 Dec 2011, 06:51 pm »
Thanks, Phil A. I'll check it out.

I'm able to find some used receivers with the features I want, but with a huge set of extras that I do not want. Are there preamps with HDMI processing functions?

Or could I build one?

JLM

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Re: What has 3+ HDMI in, 1+ HDMI out, stereo analog preamp out?
« Reply #3 on: 24 Dec 2011, 12:50 am »
Not cheap, but there are tons of HT pre/pro (pre-amp/processors) that have lots of HDMI input/outputs.

rahimlee54

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Re: What has 3+ HDMI in, 1+ HDMI out, stereo analog preamp out?
« Reply #4 on: 24 Dec 2011, 03:40 am »
Anything new with a preamp will be costly.  Check Craigslist I found a few good marantzes there a few gens old but did what I needed.

Ichinichi

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Re: What has 3+ HDMI in, 1+ HDMI out, stereo analog preamp out?
« Reply #5 on: 24 Dec 2011, 03:53 am »
What about the Yamaha RX-V665? I have one lined up for $200 - but should I hold out for some other more obvious option? or a better price?

AGAIN: I am looking for USED.

wilsynet

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Re: What has 3+ HDMI in, 1+ HDMI out, stereo analog preamp out?
« Reply #6 on: 24 Dec 2011, 05:50 am »
HT preamplifier processor separates are usually pretty expensive.  So receivers are sort of it for you, they're typically built to lower dollar, high value price points.

The reason why it's hard to find something bare bones with the features you want is because as soon as you need pre-amp outputs, most manufacturers move up a few classes in their product line.

If the Yamaha makes you happy, go buy it.  The truth is that most of the chatter on this board is 2-channel.  Not a lot of HT, multi-channel, video talk here.

Ichinichi

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Re: What has 3+ HDMI in, 1+ HDMI out, stereo analog preamp out?
« Reply #7 on: 24 Dec 2011, 11:25 am »
HT preamplifier processor separates are usually pretty expensive.  So receivers are sort of it for you, they're typically built to lower dollar, high value price points.

The reason why it's hard to find something bare bones with the features you want is because as soon as you need pre-amp outputs, most manufacturers move up a few classes in their product line.

If the Yamaha makes you happy, go buy it.  The truth is that most of the chatter on this board is 2-channel.  Not a lot of HT, multi-channel, video talk here.

I messed up the jargon. I don't need preamp out. I only need audio out and hdmi processing. Your point about preamp outs jumping a few classes applies only if I want multichannel preamp out; but I just need audio out...

what if I only want audio out? I need a dac+hdmi processor.

jermmd

Re: What has 3+ HDMI in, 1+ HDMI out, audio out?
« Reply #8 on: 24 Dec 2011, 02:45 pm »
How about Pioneer VSX-521-K 5.1-Channel 3D Ready A/V Receiver for $229 with no tax and free shipping? Newegg has some nice deals on receivers. I'm partial to Onkyo but in your price range, they're all pretty similar. If you want to use your own amp, you need pre-amps out. The Pioneer has 2.1 pre amp outs. A cheap receiver can do video switching but you'll have to use the built in amplifier for audio processing unless you double your budget.

Joe M.

Ichinichi

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Re: What has 3+ HDMI in, 1+ HDMI out, audio out?
« Reply #9 on: 25 Dec 2011, 12:27 am »
Would this work??

http://www.octavainc.com/HDMI%20switch%203x1_Stereo_Audio.html

I fear the HDMI is just vid and the analog audio, which is fed separately is just shunted out of the analog outs.

From their demo setup diagram (below) it looks like it should work. Anyone have any experience with the manufacturer?



Ichinichi

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Re: What has 3+ HDMI in, 1+ HDMI out, audio out?
« Reply #10 on: 25 Dec 2011, 04:54 am »
Anyone have experience with monoprice products? Is there a receiver that includes this functionality?

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10110&cs_id=1011008&p_id=8146&seq=1&format=2




wilsynet

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Re: What has 3+ HDMI in, 1+ HDMI out, audio out?
« Reply #11 on: 26 Dec 2011, 08:49 pm »
In your 2 channel setup, what amplifier and preamp are you using?  I assume because you didn't mention your preamp that you're using an integrated amplifier with multiple line level inputs.

If this is the case, all you need is a pair of RCA interconnects to bring the XBOX analog outputs into your two channel rig.  As for your HTPC and BD player, same deal, I'm sure there are analog outputs available from your HTPC and BD player.

I don't know too much about the Monoprice unit, but I am concerned that the downmix from multi-channel to 2-channel may not be done well given that it's advertised as a switch and not a processor.  In that respect, you're far better off with a receiver.


Ichinichi

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Re: What has 3+ HDMI in, 1+ HDMI out, audio out?
« Reply #12 on: 27 Dec 2011, 01:53 pm »
In your 2 channel setup, what amplifier and preamp are you using?  I assume because you didn't mention your preamp that you're using an integrated amplifier with multiple line level inputs.

If this is the case, all you need is a pair of RCA interconnects to bring the XBOX analog outputs into your two channel rig.  As for your HTPC and BD player, same deal, I'm sure there are analog outputs available from your HTPC and BD player.

I don't know too much about the Monoprice unit, but I am concerned that the downmix from multi-channel to 2-channel may not be done well given that it's advertised as a switch and not a processor.  In that respect, you're far better off with a receiver.

thank you for sharing your concerns, wilsynet. That's exactly the kind of thing I am afraid I am missing.

I have not come across any receiver that explicitly states it will output digital audio through audio out. Most manuals say they will output digital a/v from hdmi-in through hdmi-out and the 7.1 speaker posts or 7.1 preamp outs. The audio-out will only output analog in signals. When I went to try out that Yamaha 665, we could not get it to output hdmi audio through analog out.

are there receivers that can do what I want this switch to do? Or can I crack this switch open and replace the dac chip?


Let me address your questions:

I have a very modest 2ch setup. My integrated amp is a modified jolida 102b. But before the signal gets to the jolida, it is fed through the high/Low filter of an aci force subwoofer first. The 102b does not have an audio out either. So using the jolida as the entry point for all the audio signals is not n option, I don't think.

furthermore:
the Xbox slims do not have analog out. They will output audio and video over only one of either hdmi or their proprietary port that carries the yellow video plug and analog out. My understanding is that the yellow plug (s video?) will compromise the video signal.

my htpc is a micro-atx machine. There is no room in my case for an audio card with audio out. The motherboard does not have analog  out either.
 

randytsuch

The Yamaha receiver should be able to send analog out from HDMI audio in.  There is probably a setting you need to configure in it to do this.

I have an Onkyo receiver, a 705, which is a few years old now, and has been replaced, but handles HDMI audio fine.  It can take HDMI audio/video from my blu-ray or HTPC, and send the HDMI video to my TV, while playing audio through the analog outputs.  I have a seperate amp for my front three speakers, and it works fine.

A preamp will cost more, receivers probably have more than you need, but because of economies of scale, a receiver is the cheapest way to get there, and if you find a used one, a few years old, should work fine.  The newer ones probably support 3d, where my 705 wouldn't.

EDIT
I was just looking at the Yamaha manual.  Were you using "analog out"?  That looks like it will only be the analog in.  If you use the front left right preout, that should work, but it will be volume controlled.  Analog out will probably be a constant level, not vol controlled.

Randy


Randy

Ichinichi

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The Yamaha receiver should be able to send analog out from HDMI audio in.  There is probably a setting you need to configure in it to do this.

I have an Onkyo receiver, a 705, which is a few years old now, and has been replaced, but handles HDMI audio fine.  It can take HDMI audio/video from my blu-ray or HTPC, and send the HDMI video to my TV, while playing audio through the analog outputs.  I have a seperate amp for my front three speakers, and it works fine.

A preamp will cost more, receivers probably have more than you need, but because of economies of scale, a receiver is the cheapest way to get there, and if you find a used one, a few years old, should work fine.  The newer ones probably support 3d, where my 705 wouldn't.

EDIT
I was just looking at the Yamaha manual.  Were you using "analog out"?  That looks like it will only be the analog in.  If you use the front left right preout, that should work, but it will be volume controlled.  Analog out will probably be a constant level, not vol controlled.

Randy


Randy

Thank you for looking into the Yamaha for me, Randy.

We were trying with the Yamaha's analog-out, which the manual says will only route signal from analog-in. I wanted analog out because I read that I should have as few volume controllers in the line as possible; is that incorrect?

I am also confused what happens in the situation where my source sends a 5.1 signal and I only use the front L/R preamp outs - will the receiver collapse the multichannel into stereo and push it out of the Yamaha (or any other receiver) preamp-out?

The switch is a bad choice in any case, right?

srb

Many AV receivers will let you engage or assign a 2 channel downmixed stereo mode to override multi-channel Dolby Digital or DTS signals, but how it is implemented will depend on the receiver model.
 
On my receiver (Rotel), I can assign each digital input a default sound mode (2 Channel PCM, Dolby 3 Channel, 5/7 Channel Stereo, proprietary Music modes and Dolby processing modes), but I cannot assign the default as Dolby Digital 2 Channel Downmix.  The receiver automatically goes into the Dolby Digital mode when receiving a Dolby Digital signal, and must be manually toggled to the Downmix mode (each time) if that is what is desired.
 
So it would probably be a good idea to download the owner's manual of any receiver you're interested in to see how the sound modes are implemented and how defaults can be assigned.
 
When the receiver is in a 2 channel downmix mode, then the L and R pre-outs will output a stereo signal with the multi-channels downmixed.
 
Yes, it is technically better to have only one volume control (and preamp stage), but most receivers (and HT processor-preamps) do not output analog from digital inputs through their fixed-level record out jacks, so you don't have much of a choice but to use the pre outs.
 
Steve

Delta Wave

If you're wanting to route everything through your HTPC have you considered an external sound card since it's too small to install an internal card? There are some good ones out there with tons of flexibility with ins/outs. I would check Newegg.com. 

Ichinichi

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Many AV receivers will let you engage or assign a 2 channel downmixed stereo mode to override multi-channel Dolby Digital or DTS signals, but how it is implemented will depend on the receiver model.
 
On my receiver (Rotel), I can assign each digital input a default sound mode (2 Channel PCM, Dolby 3 Channel, 5/7 Channel Stereo, proprietary Music modes and Dolby processing modes), but I cannot assign the default as Dolby Digital 2 Channel Downmix.  The receiver automatically goes into the Dolby Digital mode when receiving a Dolby Digital signal, and must be manually toggled to the Downmix mode (each time) if that is what is desired.
 
So it would probably be a good idea to download the owner's manual of any receiver you're interested in to see how the sound modes are implemented and how defaults can be assigned.
 
When the receiver is in a 2 channel downmix mode, then the L and R pre-outs will output a stereo signal with the multi-channels downmixed.
 
Yes, it is technically better to have only one volume control (and preamp stage), but most receivers (and HT processor-preamps) do not output analog from digital inputs through their fixed-level record out jacks, so you don't have much of a choice but to use the pre outs.
 
Steve

Thanks for the pointer, Steve; I am totally going to review the manuals as available for any model I consider. The nugget AC has provided me is that downmix signal will go out of the front L/R preamp, not the analog out. I will also bet that an extra volume controller in my setup won't perceptibly affect my experience. 

Please tell me if I understand your description of your Rotel correctly: 2ch stereo-output from digital input is a selectable mode that the user must manually select each time (it cannot be set as a default).

Ichinichi

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If you're wanting to route everything through your HTPC have you considered an external sound card since it's too small to install an internal card? There are some good ones out there with tons of flexibility with ins/outs. I would check Newegg.com.

I don't want to route anything through my HTPC. HTPC is one of three HDMI sources that I want to connect to the switch/processor/receiver.

srb

Please tell me if I understand your description of your Rotel correctly: 2ch stereo-output from digital input is a selectable mode that the user must manually select each time (it cannot be set as a default).

Yes, on the Rotel, "2 Channel PCM Stereo Downmix" is not one of the selections available to assign as a default to each input.  So if I have the default for the input set to "2 Channel PCM", when I am playing back 2 channel music from my HTPC I will get stereo output from the L and R pre-outs.  If I switch to Media Center or a DVD on the HTPC with Dolby Digital soundtrack, the receiver will automatically switch to Dolby Digital and the L and R pre-outs would only have partial (L and R front channel) information.
 
If I want stereo downmix, I have to press the "2 CH" button on the remote or front panel, which will toggle back and forth between "Dolby Digital 2 Channel PCM Downmix"  and multichannel "Dolby Digital".

I don't know if some other receivers may be able to set Downmix as a default and not have Dolby Digital or DTS automatically override it.
 
Steve
« Last Edit: 1 Jan 2012, 07:37 pm by srb »