Run your tubes all day or what?

doug s. · « **Reply #40 on:** 29 Mar 2012, 05:19 pm »

Quote from: bunky on 29 Mar 2012, 03:23 pm

you could probably run a tube preamp 24/7 if it is SS rectified but the types of tubes that i like to run in them are very rare and very expensive.that being the case it is not a very smart thing for me to do.to leave a tube power amp on 24/7 is very dangerous and if something goes wrong with no one around you could lose a transformer like Charles did or you could cause a fire

agreed that leaving a tube amp on 24/7 can be risky - i have had a couple scary incidents, even when someone was around.

doug s.

medium jim · « **Reply #41 on:** 29 Mar 2012, 07:42 pm »

Quote from: cheap-Jack on 13 Dec 2011, 02:44 am

Hi.
(1) Theoretically, tubes get lifespans.

However, maybe my 50-year-old Dynaco phono-preamp & power amp both are lucky ducks as they are still kicking around bigtime like kids. The 50-year-old tubes inside sing like nightingales.

(2) This is always a good practice to give the tubes some good rest by switching them off pending for next startup. I always switch them on a couple of hours before my music session to get the tube heaters working at their optimum temperatures.

Save the good Earth as well as our wallet.

c-J

Dynakit/Dynaco while inexpensive in the day still used outstanding transformers and Tubes. NOS vintage tubes can with proper care will last 10 to 20K hours, not like modern tubes from the mid 70's forward where getting even a few thousand hours out of them is impressive.

Jim

medium jim · « **Reply #42 on:** 29 Mar 2012, 07:51 pm »

As already aptly noted, tubes do have a lifespan, some more than others, then consider the heat and energy they consume while one, even at idle, and the fact that while the tubes may not go bad, other components can and will cause major damage to your gear and potentially start a fire.

If one turns on their respective tube gear 22-30 minutes prior to musical enjoyment, the tubes will have heated up and all the capacitors will be fully charged. If I anticipate listening to music several different times, I might leave them on so there isn't that initial flash that does diminish the lifespan...however, most quality tube gear usually have a slow start circuit that does spare the tubes from this.

Jim

Wayner · « **Reply #43 on:** 29 Mar 2012, 08:07 pm »

I turn my stuff on, go find an album to play and start playing. By then, bias is settling in, things are good. No need at this house to wait an hour (if you've eaten, then you have to wait an hour before you go swimming

), just get the house rockin'.

Tube life is unpredictable, so why waste it? They are not cheap, so I ignore any 24/7 concepts.

Wayner

Old timer · « **Reply #44 on:** 31 Mar 2012, 02:25 pm »

24/7/365 for me. You can do it without worry if you own gear that is built military tough.

I was a missile tech in the Navy. Our drive amps for the radar director and the missile and gun mounts were on 24/7 anytime we left port. So, they were left on for 6 months at a time. We tested the tubes occasionally, as per the Navy's Periodic Mainenence Scedule, using a TV-7D tube tester. They ALWAYS made spec within the 3 year period that I was on the ship - Not a single one of the 70 to 80 tubes were ever replaced. There was a "Lifer" Fire Control Tech that had been on the ship for 6 years prior to me. None were replaced the 6 years prior to my arrival, so there was a 9 year period that these 6SN7 tubes made spec.

I should note that our ship consistantly won the highest Battle Efficiency record for our battle group. Battle Efficiency tests your accuracy for hitting a metal sleeve that is the size of an aircraft, pulled behind a drone, and NGFS (Naval Gun Fire Support) which consists of hitting various land targets.

This said, I have no worries leaving my Dude preamp on 24/7/365.

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #45 on:** 31 Mar 2012, 04:20 pm »

Quote from: medium jim on 29 Mar 2012, 07:51 pm

As already aptly noted, tubes do have a lifespan, some more than others, then consider the heat and energy they consume while one, even at idle, and the fact that while the tubes may not go bad, other components can and will cause major damage to your gear and potentially start a fire.

If one turns on their respective tube gear 22-30 minutes prior to musical enjoyment, the tubes will have heated up and all the capacitors will be fully charged. If I anticipate listening to music several different times, I might leave them on so there isn't that initial flash that does diminish the lifespan...however, most quality tube gear usually have a slow start circuit that does spare the tubes from this.

Jim

Most of the components within an amp and preamp are more stressed from the thermal cycling between on and off. I have never had a tube 'wear out' though I have had tubes (and other components) go at turn-on or turn-off, like light bulbs.

Wayner · « **Reply #46 on:** 31 Mar 2012, 04:33 pm »

Comparing MIL SPEC tubes to current production tubes is like comparing apples to oranges. Military tubes are designed to last and take rugged abuse.

Current production tubes probably do not have the same mission, at all.

I thought everyone here at AC wanted to be green? I guess when it comes to tubes, electricity consumption doesn't make no mind. Burn away.

Wayner

Quiet Earth · « **Reply #47 on:** 31 Mar 2012, 05:12 pm »

If you want to be green then you need to unplug EVERY modern appliance in your home when you are not using it. They all consume electricity as long as they are plugged in. Yes, even when in off mode.

5 star energy efficient when they are on, wasting electricity while waiting for your command when they are off.

Modern logic.

Wayner · « **Reply #48 on:** 31 Mar 2012, 06:08 pm »

A little bit difference in power consumption don't ya think? 1/2 or maybe 1 watt, waiting for a remote control command verses, in my case, 13 vacuum tubes, running all day, all night, whether I'm home or not, listening to music or not.

I'm sorry, call me old fashioned, but it just doesn't make any sense to do the 24/7/365. However, it's your money, your equipment, so do as you see fit. I don't agree that it's a lifestyle that should be promoted.

Unattended products have exploded, burst into flames, or have had any number of other fault conditions happen, and the track record of home fires is led by electrical malfunctions, not your fireplace, as many would have you believe.

I thought I heard the other day that clothes dryers cause 15,000 home fires annually.

Wayner

Quiet Earth · « **Reply #49 on:** 31 Mar 2012, 06:22 pm »

All of our modern day appliances are unattended products. Seems like a double standard to me.

As for the green thing, walk around the house and count how many items you own that are plugged into the wall. Another double standard I think. Unless you are Al Gore.

Wayner · « **Reply #50 on:** 31 Mar 2012, 07:12 pm »

I did the walk around 20 years ago. The point is that tube equipment, like many other (taken for granted products) are potential fire starters if their use is abused, and I think 24/7/365 is abuse.

I have taken many courses of the NFPA-79e and don't need any lectures about the safety of electrical devices. You may not like my position, and I don't really care. There are lots of UL approved devices that have burned down houses and killed people. There is no double standard here at all.

Rule number one: There is no such thing as a safe electrical product. PERIOD.

W

JerryM · « **Reply #51 on:** 31 Mar 2012, 07:36 pm »

Quote from: Wayner on 31 Mar 2012, 07:12 pm

There is no such thing as a safe electrical product. PERIOD.

Sure there is.

Getting back OT... Here is the OP:

Quote from: roymail on 13 Dec 2011, 02:11 am

When do you usually turn your tube amp or preamp on, and do you leave it on all day. With my SS stuff I don't think about it, but I'm betting tubes required more attention. Since tubes get pretty hot, my guess is that it's best just to let them run and turn them off at bedtime.

Share your on/off routine. Thanks!

I leave them on all day, and well into the night, if I am listening. Background music all day; fun, enjoyable listening at night.

If I am not (or not going to be) listening soon, they are not on. That having been said, they are nearly always on.

Have fun,

Jerry

Wayner · « **Reply #52 on:** 31 Mar 2012, 08:18 pm »

Quote from: JerryM on 31 Mar 2012, 07:36 pm

Sure there is.

NO THERE IS NOT!

Quiet Earth · « **Reply #53 on:** 31 Mar 2012, 08:24 pm »

Wayner,

I'm not lecturing you or debating your personal position, I'm just replying to the subject in general. What I was getting at about the double standard is that most of us don't give it a second thought while our solid state devices are powered up and running all day, but we feel like we need some special advice when we see the glow of a tube in front of us. Keeping on topic :

Quote from: roymail on 13 Dec 2011, 02:11 am

With my SS stuff I don't think about it, but I'm betting tubes required more attention.

I personally don't see the difference in attention required as long as the product is made correctly and you are using it as intended. Fwiw, the only amplifiers that I ever had "blow up" on me used field effect transistors. I have had a power tube go out on me once before, but I should have changed that tube when I saw the getter material was nearly gone.

Wayner · « **Reply #54 on:** 31 Mar 2012, 11:09 pm »

OK, it's my failure to get my point across. Products have failure due to tolerance deviation. What may work at your house, may not work at my house.

Products fail all the time. I feel that it is my duty to inform the general public at large that their sense of security with electronic products is false. This does not mean that they are bad products, nor does it mean that UL is a bad organization, but UL or other safety organizations can't be a watch dog at every assembly line, either on shore or off shore. And if you think your safe with something that is listed with an EC label, think again. Those labels are a joke. They are self watching watchdogs. Fewey on all of those.

Wayner

Old timer · « **Reply #55 on:** 1 Apr 2012, 09:25 am »

It sounds to me like Wayner should turn off his main breaker whan he leaves his home.

Can't trust the water heater, ... You know.

Wayner · « **Reply #56 on:** 1 Apr 2012, 12:12 pm »

Water heater is gas. I'm not saying that at all. We all have to trust our electrical devices, but to the point of this thread, good not to take unnecessary risks. When we eliminate risks, we reduce the odds of having a failure, especially one that results in fire (or worse).

It's common sense, I guess.

macrojack · « **Reply #57 on:** 1 Apr 2012, 12:19 pm »

Wayner is demonstrating the respect for Murphy's Law that most of us only develop from age or bad experience. Do you really need to burn your finger, to accept that the stove is hot?

I'm just now getting past living with teenage sons. Some of what I'm reading here conveys the same cockiness and contrary insistence that the boys demonstrate.

"Better safe than sorry" is more than just a slogan.

Old timer · « **Reply #58 on:** 1 Apr 2012, 02:20 pm »

I share my personal experience from my Navy days over 30 years ago (I am an old man who has had a few life experiences) and Wayner tries to support his arguement that "Comparing MIL SPEC tubes to current production tubes is like comparing apples to oranges. Military tubes are designed to last and take rugged abuse", without knowing that perhaps I use 5692's in my preamp.

I've left my tube preamps on 24/7/365 for YEARS and will continue to sleep well at night. I will agree with Doug S here, who stated that he would only remove expensive phono stage tubes in the event that you owned a pre with a built in phono stage.

I suppose the next tactic will be to shame me for the power used, without knowing how I save power around my home. Or maybe that my tube preamp isn't built military enough to run 24/7, ... like the radar director, gun and missile drive units on the Destroyer Escort that I lived and worked on for 3 years in my youth?

What's next?

DARTH AUDIO · « **Reply #59 on:** 1 Apr 2012, 02:24 pm »

Only on the weekends.