[HsvHeelFan]

Hi all,

I'm still on the fence if I should use a good sound card or a DAC for a personal computer based music server.

I'm considering the ASUS Xonar Essense XTS in PCI Express.

An alternative would be a USB based DAC.   

Any recommendations on different sound cards to consider or potential DAC to use?

The music server will replace my current redbook/SACD Denon CD player. It's the DCM-390.


HsvHeelFan

[Aleg]

IMO it is best to bring the conversion outside of your PC.
I think a (battery-operated) USB DAC which is not dependent on USB-power best

[motorcitym3]

I originally had my Asus Xonar Essence ST sound card  (PC i-7 8g memory and 1.4 Tb of music as my server) driving my Modwright pre-amp, but for giggles, I threw an old MSB dac in the mix and it sounded better.   

After the experiment, I ended up buying a Bolder Cable modded EE minimax DAC and it sounds 500% better!

The external dac IS the way to go.

[wushuliu]

IMO it is best to bring the conversion outside of your PC.
I think a (battery-operated) USB DAC which is not dependent on USB-power best

I also agree that it would probably be best to use an external DAC. Computer is too noisy environment to use a soundcard IMO - and the really good cards are expensive.

The Dacport LX is usb-powered and is an outstanding DAC, having compared it to HRT II, V-DAC, Audio-GD NFB-3 and several others.

[srb]

I would also agree on the external DAC.  Internal soundcards may or may not have their analog output affected by other noise producing components or fans, etc. in the PC enclosure, and this obviously varies widely with the thousands of possible component combinations and physical PC layouts.
 
If your PC has an S/PDIF coaxial or optical output, this could also be an alternative digital connection to USB.  My motherboard has both, and I prefer the coaxial output to the optical.  A USB DAC is a little more versatile being able to interface with most any PC or Mac, even if there are no S/PDIF outputs (more than half of PC laptops).
 
One new DAC of interest is the USA-built Schiit Bifrost, which has an optional asynchronous USB module that can be added at any time, but at $350 ($450 with USB) this might be outside of the ~$200 soundcard budget that you were looking at.  Also, I think they have a number of backorders, as initial interest was more than anticipated.
 
Steve

[audioseduction]

Like everyone said, the computer is a noisy environment to have your DAC implemented inside. I feel one of the best way to reach that golden sound is to connect your music server to a good USB to S/PDIF converter and then to your DAC via S/PDIF. Below is my signal path.  My music server setup ended up sounding better the $10K Esoteric SACD/CD standalone player I owned.

I use WASAPI - Event Style which is VERY GOOD! I tried FooBar2K and found it cumbersome and had issues with the WASAPI plug-in working properly. I like JRMC 17 as it's very polished and clean. WASAPI - Event Style just kicks azz for me on my system. Playing 24/192 is such a dream come true.
 
I have swapped out the PC for a more robust laptop which is an Asus Intel Core i5-2430M 2.40GHz, 8GB DDR3 1333 RAM, 120GB SSD. What’s nice about this laptop it has both USB 2 & USB 3 ports. I connect the USB to S/PDIF converter to the USB 2 port and connect the 3TB USB 3 external drive which I store my music files on to the USB 3 port. With this setup both USB 2 & 3 have their own pathways so there will be no constraints due to single congested pathway which would negatively affect playback. This arrangement works better then streaming through my LAN because the throughput for the USB 3 is 5 Gbit/s. This also allows me to play back from memory in another words the laptop is now a killer memory player. It can’t get no better.

SIGNAL PATHWAY:
Uncompressed Lossless FLAC - Dedicated Windows 7 64bit Intel Core i5-2430M 2.4GHz, 8GB 1333 MHz DDR3 Laptop/JRiver Media Center 17 > Audioquest Carbon USB cable > WaveLink HS 24/192 USB to SPDIF Converter > Nordost Silver Shadow BNC Digital Cable > Bel Canto e.One DAC3.5VB/REF VB Cable/VBS1 Power Supply > Tara Labs ISM XLR Cables > Pass Labs XP-20 Preamp > Tara Labs ISM XLR Cables > Pass Labs xa160.5 Class A Mono Blocks > Tara Labs ISM The One Speaker Cables > Martin Logan Summit X speakers

[skunark]

if you are buying new I would probably steer you something like Bryston BDP if it's going to be a dedicated computer.  It's hand's down beat any computer and cd setup i've heard.   You can avoid the wallwart electrical noise from the cheap switching power supply & fan noise from both laptop and desktops.   The BDP is a computer, but there's no fan and it doesn't have a switching power supply. 

If you are augmenting an existing system, there's only so much benefit a Windows or a Mac computer can provide until you start addressing application, driver, OS, cable, configuration issues along with the switching power supply and perhaps fan noise.    And then you might want a remote or some way to control it, and with every digital file setup, you also need to address how to back up the files.   

[audioseduction]

skunark curious, what was the makeup of the PC based music servers that you heard? Not true for all PC/Mac based music servers, just stop by and have a listen. Like I said, my current setup replaced a $10K Esoteric SACD/CD player. It all depends on hardware, software and implementation.

HsvHeelFan, take a trip over to http://www.computeraudiophile.com/forum and asked there. Now keep in mind that site is big into MACs.

[AVnerdguy]

I have an ASUS Xonar D1 in the office system I like. Very smooth and doesn't seem to have that digital bite - to me anyway.

I also have a Bryston BDP-1 and it uses the Juli@ card. That sound so good I was thinking of getting one for the tower system. I was online looking at them and almost pulled the trigger but thought better of it since Christmas is around the corner and that's a priority around here. Especially with all the hi fi gear I've bought recently. Hmmmm, maybe I leave a few hints.

If I could only have one I'd go for the BDP-1 and the BDA-1 DAC as a companion (great combo IMO).

[audioseduction]

AVnerdguy, I think it would be much better to use a converter like one of these (Wavelink HS, M2Tech hiFace Evo, Stello U3, Audiophilleo 1, Berkeley Alpha USB...) for attaching a computer to a external DAC to get the best out of digital playback. These converters provide vital features like...

1) 192Khz 24bit sample rate capablity
2) Asynchronous Mode
3) Galvanic Isolation

[HsvHeelFan]

Everyone,

Thanks for the feedback.  I'm sure these results will be useful for other readers in the future.

HsvHeelFan

[HsvHeelFan]

Just an update:

I went with the ASUS Sonar Essence STX. 

I'm running J River Media center and ripping FLAC onto the hard drive. 

Once it's on the hard drive, I'm using WASAPI - exclusive for playback.

I've listened to all of the playback modes that J River provides.   I'm not resampling anything, so I'm playing all of my ripped redbook cd's back a source bit depth and 44.1 khz.

When resampling (using either JRiver or the ASUS s/w), I got some unusual results, primarily in the lower frequency registers such as the big bass drum hits on the Fredrick Fennel Reference Recording with the Dallas Wind Symphony. 

I'm continue to play around with the options between JRiver and the ASUS soundcard software.  At the moment, I'm really happy with the sound.

Note that I wasn't when I first set it up.  The ASUS software had all kinds of reverb and special effects.  Once I went with Hi-Fi mode,  and 44.1 khz, the sound is as good as the Denon DCM-390 that I'm replacing.

Last thought,  I needed some way to get digital data out of my pc, if I wanted to go with an external DAC, down the road.  The ASUS will be the way I get there, if I go that way.

HsvHeelFan

[HsvHeelFan]

I did some more critical listening last night and compared the Denon DCM-390 to the music server.

The music server has a deeper and wider sound stage.  Instrumentation location is more clear and their placement on the soundstage is more focused than the Denon.

I'm using a wireless Logitech Keyboard and mouse and I can use it to move around the playlists.  The LCD, using JRiver media center's Theater View Display, does a good job of letting me see what I need to see to move around my playlists.

HsvHeelFan

[wushuliu]

Just an update:

I went with the ASUS Sonar Essence STX. 

I'm running J River Media center and ripping FLAC onto the hard drive. 

Once it's on the hard drive, I'm using WASAPI - exclusive for playback.

I've listened to all of the playback modes that J River provides.   I'm not resampling anything, so I'm playing all of my ripped redbook cd's back a source bit depth and 44.1 khz.

When resampling (using either JRiver or the ASUS s/w), I got some unusual results, primarily in the lower frequency registers such as the big bass drum hits on the Fredrick Fennel Reference Recording with the Dallas Wind Symphony. 

I'm continue to play around with the options between JRiver and the ASUS soundcard software.  At the moment, I'm really happy with the sound.

Note that I wasn't when I first set it up.  The ASUS software had all kinds of reverb and special effects.  Once I went with Hi-Fi mode,  and 44.1 khz, the sound is as good as the Denon DCM-390 that I'm replacing.

Last thought,  I needed some way to get digital data out of my pc, if I wanted to go with an external DAC, down the road.  The ASUS will be the way I get there, if I go that way.

HsvHeelFan

I take back my earlier statement. I decided to give the Asus Essence ST a try (apparently it sounds better than the STX and has an additional chip to reduce jitter) in place of my MF V-link w/ Pangea silver usb feeding a Peachtree DaciT. But first I decided to try out the ST as a dac and test its analog out. What a pleasant surprise to find that the ST sounds *wonderful*. Every DAC offers something different; so far the ST has the low noise floor/black background cornered, and  even a little of the 'I never heard that before' in recordings. I am going to let it settle in before making a firm judgment but the DaciT/V-link/usb combo came to $659 and I can't say that it's $450 better than the ST!

Also, if using a PC for music you *have* invest as much as you can in cleaning up the power. Use the best power/line conditioner you can, use the SotM sata filters for all drives and fans, SSD drives for the OS, and at the very least get the best power supply you can preferably fanless with good low ripple specs like Seasonic or Antec Earthwatt. All that has to be maximized first.

[wushuliu]

I did some more critical listening last night and compared the Denon DCM-390 to the music server.

The music server has a deeper and wider sound stage.  Instrumentation location is more clear and their placement on the soundstage is more focused than the Denon.

I'm using a wireless Logitech Keyboard and mouse and I can use it to move around the playlists.  The LCD, using JRiver media center's Theater View Display, does a good job of letting me see what I need to see to move around my playlists.

HsvHeelFan

Also you may want to try the UniXonar drivers instead of the Asus drivers. The UniXonar are maximized for low latency and bypasses the Asus Dsp bloatware.

http://brainbit.wordpress.com/category/uni-xonar/