[Rob Babcock]

Well, I guess I don't have to fear taking this thread off-topic!     So I gotta ask, DVV- what can your Yugo do in the standing quarter mile?  Er, okay, you're European- I guess that'd be about 1280 meters?  

Stoplight-to-stoplight is a good 'street measure', but to be a bit more precise, can you estimate a 60 foot time or an 1/8 mile?  (Sorry 'bout the lack of metric conversion, but it's Saturday nite & I'm a few brewski's into it!   ).

[DVV]

The key point regarding amps I was trying to make is that an amplifier is a set of elements. To make it into a great sounding one, one needs not only to get it all right in electrical design, dimensioning, circuit board layout, etc, but also to choose each and every link specifically for the given job in the given amp.

Therefore, a successful amp is just as much a matter of the designer's hearing as it is of his knowledge of electronics. Getting it right envolves much in situ experimenting, trying this and that, a process which is very time consumning and frankly, also costs quite a bit. For example, you need to keep 10,000uF/63V caps in pairs by Elna, Nichicon, Panasonic, Siemens, Philips, Fischer&Tausche, etc, because you have no idea which will fit in best. The only way to know is to try and see/hear.

Exactly the same applies to semicondictors. You make a list of likely candidates for say drivers, transistors which drive the actual output stage; if you've done your job well in design terms, its operating conditions will be fairly relaxed, but this also enlarges the lits of possible candidates. And believe me, they DON'T all sound the same, so more often than not, you do hear the difference. It may be small, but then such differences are definitely cumulative.

In the end, you spend like 7-8 days getting it right electrically, and then the next month, 2 or 5 experiemnting and tweaking it until you feel it sounds right. This despite previous experience with most such parts.

But it's fun.

Cheers,
DVV

[Rob Babcock]

So, I guess you're not gonna make an American tour to drag race any of us!     Still, an interesting discussion.

I guess the hot-rodded Yugo vs the hotrodded Camaro will have to wait for another day.

[DVV]

Well, I guess I don't have to fear taking this thread off-topic!     So I gotta ask, DVV- what can your Yugo do in the standing quarter mile?  Er, okay, you're European- I guess that'd be about 1280 meters?   [\quote]

Tsk, tsk, tsk. 1/4 mile, given that one mile has 1,650 meters, is just one quarter that, Rob.

I don't know the answer to that. I can tell you what it will do 0-100 km, or 0-62 miles in: using standard 95 octane fuel, with just me inside, it will hit 62 mph in 9.6 seconds. A standard Yugo, from which mine was derived, will do the same in 17.5 sec.

Its current top speed, under the same conditions, has moved from 150/91 km/miles per hour to 178/108 km/miles per hour.

At this time, its original 1,116 ccm engine has grown to 1,301 ccm, and its nominal power is up from 55 bhp to about 90 bhp. Unfortunately, some essential things have not been done yet, I need to throw in the fuel injection (right now, it's running off one Weber 32/32 ICEV twin carb, way too small for it now, but it's a temporary arrangement anyway), new head with larger valves, different intake manifold, oil cooler, front and back bracing, a larger clutch and to change its 13" to 14" wheels, its current 165/70 R 13 (originally 145/80 R 13) Avon tires to Yokohama 185/55 R 14.

Calculations show that I can expect 0-62 mph at just over 8 seconds, since it will have 110 bhp at 7,100 rpm. Will it actually make it, we have to wait and see, my injectors have been ordered from the US and should be arriving any day now. They are all that's missing.

Stoplight-to-stoplight is a good 'street measure', but to be a bit more precise, can you estimate a 60 foot time or an 1/8 mile?  (Sorry 'bout the lack of metric conversion, but it's Saturday nite & I'm a few brewski's into it!   ).

No such thing as too many brews if you can still write. Rob, they ain't no brews, you have just been prescribed a strong vitamin B complex diet, and being practical, you know beer has a lot of the B vitamin complex, so in effect, you are supporting your health. Anyway, beer is a damn site better than bananas; who wants to be seen killing off a lot of bananas, the associations that might raise are most uncomplementary, right? Another reason to stick to traditional methods of augmenting the vitamins.

Just a matter of how you look at it, Rob. I understand you just want to be healthy, that's all, and if that's John Adams you're knocking off, download me one too, please. I loved that beer, sorry, health.

Cheers,
DVV

[JohnR]

Ahem, 1 mile = 1609.344 meters.

[gonefishin]

Hmmm...racing, cooking and audio.  Let's just add fishing and music and I won't need to read any other threads on the internet


  DVV, I'd love to see pictures of your car, if you get a chance.  


   Our local track is actually pretty decent.  So far the quickest time is a 4.721 (which ain't too shabby).  The Fastest speed is 333.00mph in the quarter.


    Cooking?

   I really love food, which may be a reason why I enjoy cooking so much.  Tho I'm a stinkin' rookie...this is one of the things I really enjoy doing.

  I do better in the kitchen than I do on the grill...but I enjoy both.  I'm a believer in getting the basics down right...which is why I've actually (just recently) started taking a couple classes.  I can only do this as money and time provides...but it's something that's fun...and I'm learning a TON, in the short classes that I've taken.
   So far I've taken the Soups, Stocks and Sauces class (told ya it was basics;) )  This was really an eye opener for me.  I've always know that my sauces weren't turning out "just right" and now I know some of the reasons.  I was making critical mistakes from beginning to end     I was!  
   The next classes I hope to take will be cooking meats, poultry, game and seafood...then...after that the wife is demanding I take the desserts class.  Actually, she wants me to take that one before the meats...but she'll have to wait.
    If anyone has some tips or tricks...I'd love to hear them!  Best advice I can give right now would be to start with good flavor.  Make a proper stock, demi-glacé and glacé when making sauces.  Because, if you don't put the flavor in from the bginning...it ain't gonna be there later.  Again...I'm just learning...but...and having fun.


   Smokes?  Well, I've got a number of them in the humidor...but I haven't been smoking them.  In fact, I'm not sure if I will.  I quite smoking cigarettes at the beginning of the year.  I'm just not sure yet if I'm going to smoke an occasional cigar yet or not.  I think I'd like to wait a minimum of one year before making a decision either way tho.  
  Right now I've got a decent variety in there.  Some of my most favorites are some Fuente Hemingway Classics, Padron 1964 series and the very tough to find Padron 1926 series among some others from hard to get places and easy to get places.

   
    Hugh and DVV,  

   It has been such a joy reading the threads here and the threads I've found at DIYaudio  regarding your design philosophy.  

   Tho I can have questions regarding your philosophy, and I can have general questions regarding parts used and circuits type used.  I really can't have an intelligent conversation with you guys about circuit design.  So don't feel as tho I'm not reading and taking notes, just because I'm not responding to your posts here.  
   I'm guessing that I won't actually progress to the next level, of SS design.  I'm likely to stay right in the current level of audio enthusiast...but hopefully (as time goes on) an audio enthusiast with a little better understanding of "the inner working of a SS amplifier" than I had before.  I will continue to read and question things that seem unclear to me.  But (even tho I may at times)...I will try not to simply parrot what I may think I know...(even tho it can be tough not to believe you have knowledge on things you know nothing about but have read on extensivly...squak )
   Again...thanks so much, to both of you, for actually helping me understand this topic just a little bit better.

   Can I ask you guys what your subjective impressions are on various tube amps (of fairly good design...SET or PP...or OTL)?

   I wouldn't say that these amps do everything well...but they do seem to get some things right.  What are your subjective impressions (take the designer hats off, if possible) on (well designed) tube amps.  

 



    (to everyone....thanks for the comments!)

[DVV]

So, I guess you're not gonna make an American tour to drag race any of us!     Still, an interesting discussion.

I guess the hot-rodded Yugo vs the hotrodded Camaro will have to wait for another day.

As an admirer of Camaros, I'd love to take up the challenge, however, not with my present incarnation. For that, I'd have to borrow a friend's Yugo, that's more in the class.

But I fear your Camaro is dead before we even start. Now, I'm a freak, but that guy is a nut. His Yugo is beyond practical limits, meaning its acceleration can only be calculated, it can never be actually done because no tire that can be installed in a Yugo could ever fully transfer that kind of power onto the road. Speaking of which, he has a turbo blown FIAT 2 litre engine, delivering app. 280 horsepower. That's about 7 lbs per horsepower, so his theoretical 0-62 mph time is below 4 seconds, nearer to 3 seconds. His top speed should be around 190 mph - if he could ever actually test it, which he can't, because no local road will ever support anything around that kind of speed. His record is around 160 mph on German motorways (before they introduced the ~!@#$%^&* speed limits!). He never told us what it cost him; I wonder why?

OK Rob, off we go to a private discussion.

Cheers,
DVV

[Rob Babcock]

Yep, getting that power to the road is an age old problem drag racers have had to face since the beginning.

But I'd pay cash to see that car smoke a Mustang in a stoplite-to-stoplite race!  

[Rob Babcock]

BTW, I had a buddy that, back in HS, shoehorned a 350 smallblock into a freakin' Chevy Vega!     And, no, that motor doesn't really fit a chassis that size without some major surgery.  He blew it up shortly thereafter, and it was way too much power to hope to have it hook up properly, but it was an interesting project anyway.

[DVV]

Hmmm...racing, cooking and audio.  Let's just add fishing and music and I won't need to read any other threads on the internet [\quote]

Only on AKSA's forum!

DVV, I'd love to see pictures of your car, if you get a chance.  
[\quote]

Sure, no problem, as soon as it's done. Not much to see, though, I made VERY sure nothing, but NOTHING on the outside betrays its Dr Jeckyll / Mr Hyde nature. Well, of course that's impossible to do completely, and one who knows where to look will see it's beed fiddled with, but most unsuspecting MB, Audi, BMW and other owners ain't that smart. And they are my best customers, or should I say patients?

   Our local track is actually pretty decent.  So far the quickest time is a 4.721 (which ain't too shabby).  The Fastest speed is 333.00mph in the quarter. [\quote]

Now, just try to visualize this - a cop blue Yugo hitting say 190 mph??? A Yugo, for chrissakes? A passenger car, because I never ever removed anything from it, it can still seat four in a pinch and with much prayer. I mean, this is no dragster, it's an honest to God passenger car - just a crafty one, is all.

Hugh and DVV,

It has been such a joy reading the threads here and the threads I've found at DIYaudio regarding your design philosophy.

Tho I can have questions regarding your philosophy, and I can have general questions regarding parts used and circuits type used. I really can't have an intelligent conversation with you guys about circuit design. So don't feel as tho I'm not reading and taking notes, just because I'm not responding to your posts here.
I'm guessing that I won't actually progress to the next level, of SS design. I'm likely to stay right in the current level of audio enthusiast...but hopefully (as time goes on) an audio enthusiast with a little better understanding of "the inner working of a SS amplifier" than I had before. I will continue to read and question things that seem unclear to me. But (even tho I may at times)...I will try not to simply parrot what I may think I know...(even tho it can be tough not to believe you have knowledge on things you know nothing about but have read on extensivly...squak  )
Again...thanks so much, to both of you, for actually helping me understand this topic just a little bit better.

Can I ask you guys what your subjective impressions are on various tube amps (of fairly good design...SET or PP...or OTL)?

I wouldn't say that these amps do everything well...but they do seem to get some things right. What are your subjective impressions (take the designer hats off, if possible) on (well designed) tube amps.

(to everyone....thanks for the comments!)
[\quote]

Speaking for myself, you are welcome, anytime you want to ask, ask here or PM me, whatever is best for you. My feeling is that knowledge, or whatever of it I possess, is at best half-used if it's not shared, sharing it is half the fun. I'll always try my best to answer a reasonable question, even if only to admit being ignorant of the answer.

I think you'll find Hugh about the same, as best witnessed by his success as a designer and somebody who sure seems to have made a lot of people very happy. But Hugh can speak for himself.

To answer your question on tube audio, in general, I admit it's seductive, but over longer periods of time, I tend to be bothered by the way tube audio generally tends to round off the sound and because it doesn't compare with SS precision. This is purely subjective view.

Of those I have heard, I find I have a strong preference for Audio Research gear; somehow, it seems to me they manage to get the best of both worlds, in preamps certainly, and in power amps better than most others I have heard. VTL also made some outstanding products. Again, quite subjective.

On a rational level, a good designer will get it right no matter which technology he uses, the key being his mastery of technology. Lord knows I have heard some horrid SS amps in my time. I find most Krell designs, for example, to have bass to die for, but the rest is to my mind below par for the class they are supposed to be in and actually cost. With the exception of New Zealand's Perraux, nobody ever made me believe that MOSFETs were good for audio.

Apologies to everyone not interested in gasoline fumes, roar of tuned engines and the smell of blood befitting true sports fans for my small exchange with Rob Babcock, we switched to a private discussion.

Cheers,
DVV

[Rob Babcock]

And don't let me get started on cooking!   That's another love of mine (along with eating! ).  I used to work as a chef until job pressure & some family issues led me to take a job less demanding on my time.  I really do yearn to return to cooking one day, but it's just so damn much more work than my bank job...

[Double Ugly]

DVV-

I've really enjoyed reading your posts, as I'm sure everyone here has.  

However, your posts would be much easier to read if you'd use this slash ( / ) when ending a quote (like so: [/quote].      

This [\quote] doesn't work.    

Thanks!  

DU

[DVV]

DVV-

I've really enjoyed reading your posts, as I'm sure everyone here has.  

However, your posts would be much easier to read if you'd use this slash ( / ) when ending a quote (like so:

.      

This [\quote] doesn't work.    

Thanks!  

DU[/quote]

Ooops! Duh - so dat's why it ain't woikin' ..... Sorry.

Cheers,
DVV

[DVV]

Ahem, 1 mile = 1609.344 meters.

I stand corrected - thank you, John.

Cheers,
DVV

[AKSA]

Dejan,

Very gracious of you, mon, but don't be unnerved;  I NEVER get posting images right, takes me about three goes.  I have a Masters degree in BIT but can't drive software.  I guess I'm the perfect academic!!

Your story with the Yugo amuses me.  I'm about to acquire a Nissan Sunny, the successor to the 120Y which was a dreadful car with a marvellous engine.  I have an A15 I have worked on a little, with a loud cam, a decent exhaust system and reprofiled distributor advance with electronic ignition.  A few days ago I visited a motorcycle wrecker, and perused the 20 metre shelf of carbs from four cylinder machines.  It got me thinking  

It would be a nice project for me to fit a brace of Fireblade Mikuni carbs to my A15 just for the hell of it;  this would give the car electric performance, something I would quite enjoy....  It's just a thought, who know what I might do......  just a little machining of a spare manifold I have lying around, n'est pas??

Cheers,

Hugh

[Carlman]

I thought about this the other day... if (or when) I have children, I wonder if they'll be modifying electric cars... and I started playing the dialog of the kids in my head... and how they were going to get more voltage, amperage, etc. to the ground... And I realized all this hifi tweaking knowledge could really come in handy! (for something else, anyway)    

-C

[DVV]

Dejan,

Very gracious of you, mon, but don't be unnerved;  I NEVER get posting images right, takes me about three goes.  I have a Masters degree in BIT but can't drive software.  I guess I'm the perfect academic!!

Your story with the Yugo amuses me.  I'm about to acquire a Nissan Sunny, the successor to the 120Y which was a dreadful car with a marvellous engine.  I have an A15 I have worked on a little, with a loud cam, a decent exhaust system and reprofiled distributor advance with electronic ignition ...

Way to go, Hugh. However, I suggest you go for a proper EFI (electronic fuel injection) system, because it will afford you greater economy if you have a light foot, or better performance if you put your souvenir army boots on.

There's a Nissan Sunny over here, owned by the good wife of a now retired race track driver, herself a race track driver. Catching that lady takes a Ferrari, no less, and one you don't mind ruining in the process of overrevving it. I have seen her in action a few times - she is the perfect driver, she never starts a hassle, but she always finishes it.

"Dreadful" is a word which takes some explaining. In all honesty, a typical Yugo is a throwback to 25 years ago, it's totally outdated now, and poorly made to boot. I can't think of one thing to recommend it, except the low, low price (app. $5K US brand new all told). Add another $5K and you're in business - it's still an uncomfortable, way too small car, but at least it will kick ass.

While I get a tremendous kick out of it, and especially from the looks on the faces of owners of famous brand jalopies when they get overtaken, or can't keep up with a Yugo, whenever I have any serious driving to do in terms of distance, I do sit in the Daewoo/Chevrolet, it's one of the most comfortable cars I've ever sat in. And it's very quiet on the inside, not to mention the air con. That's the Dr Jeckyll part of me. And I am a 51 year old geek, although I tend to forget that sometimes. I still feel more like 24.

But Hugh, forget the carbs, they are shit by default, go for EFI, and tweak it. If you need any help, my friend Nick will come to your aid. He graduated electrical engineering with a reworked Weber-Marelli EFI system, which unlike all other systems in commercial use, does not have two or three operating regimes, but has a sliding bias - it changes parameters every 10 revs. Pure class A, if you like. His professor told him that people get their doctorates for less. Well, that's the system I want in my Yugo, and will have it.

Anyway, what the hell is wrong with a decent Holden Torana? There's Pontiac in the US using it as a basis for their reincarnated GTO from the muscle car era. If is was good for Mel as Mad Max, it should be almost as good for you. Just add that mean looking, kick-ass DeHavilland supercharger, and you're off with around 600 horsepower or so.

Cheers,
DVV

[EchiDna]

DVV, I think you are meaning the Holden Monaro, not the Torana...

see here: http://www.holden.com.au/www-holden/action/modeloverview?modelid=12001

the crazy thing is, you can't buy the normal high octane fuels in Australia, so they de-tune the engines intentionally to increase engine life, hence the proposed Pontiac GTO will outperform the parent car on the street.

[AKSA]

Yes, indeed Glen, we are starved for high octance fuels in Australia, but that's probably a good thing......  

The Gen III 5.7 liter V8 is presently causing many problems with piston and ring failures, notably excessive oil consumption and gudgeon knock.  GM now say they've solved the problem;  it remains to be seen.  In competition environments the hipo Al blocks are rapidly losing favor and many racers here are returning to cast blocks since at high output - up around 500 horsepower plus - heat distortion, gasket failure and oil control are real problems.  Many stock auto engines have had to be rebuilt because of ill-fitting pistons;  insufficient care is taken and the GM reputation has suffered badly.

GM US regards Holden Motor Company (HMC) in Australia very favourably because evidently innovative development and efficient productionizing can be done in Australia in about half the time.  The Melbourne HMC plant is about to start production of a 3.6 litre, 190 Kw quad cam V6 which will be exported around the world like the Family II 2.2 litre OHC four cylinder;  with the dollar dropping this makes good sense.  Meanwhile Ford has responded with a 4 litre DOHC, VVT 24 valve turbo of 268 Kw which is marketed at 240 Kw so as not to steal sales from the long stroke, 260Kw 5.4 litre V8.  A friend has one of the turbo sixes, and the economy and performance is remarkable.  This is a very good engine, though cam wear rate is high, but this appears to be the only fault.  Rather smoother than a balance shaft V6, too, and based loosely around the old iron block Ford 6 sold here since the early sixties.

The number of Gen III V8s of 260Kw on the streets here in Australia is quite surprising;  a very popular muscle car despite our 92 octane fuel.  They lack bottom end grunt - the current 3.8 litre pushrod V6 in truth is more impressive - but their top end performance is blistering.

Yesterday I drove with a friend, a race car driver, to the west of the State to pick up a large, 14 foot tandem trailer weighing 1250 kgs.  We drove a 2002 VX Commodore Holden, an Opel by another name with the V6 3.8 litre motor.  It towed this heavy trailer (laden with two 5.5HP gasoline powered pumps) with trifling ease;  economy at 70 mph was around 9 kms to the litre, which is around 20 miles to the US gallon.  It is difficult to see why an even more powerful, and presumably economical engine, is required, particularly as Victoria has one of the most strictly enforced highway codes in the world!  If you drive at 63 kph in a 60 zone here you are hit with a large fine, there are hidden cameras everywhere on the roads, and demerit points are slapped on your license.  It is extremely punitive, and has cost the Government dearly with an angry electorate.

Sorry about off-topic;  automotive technology is a passion for me!!  

Cheers,

Hugh

[E TYPE PHIL]

Hugh

The problems with rings on the Gen 111 engine -- are these cases all using standard 92 ron unleaded?

Everyone I know who has a 260kw or more vehicle uses the 98 ron Shell product -- no problems that I have heard.

Phil.