The Most Holographic - 3D - Preamps You know Of.

nnck · « **Reply #100 on:** 28 Nov 2011, 04:03 am »

Quote from: jackman on 24 Nov 2011, 02:54 pm

Are you referring to the guy in this thread who owned a heavily modded Modwright with expensive aftermarket power cord and could not hear a difference between it and the 10A (or was it the 11A)? I guess it scored low in "emotional connectivity" or some other ginned up category.

Actually, I asked quite a bit earlier in this thread whether or not the Modwright LS100 was considered a 'holographic' sounding preamp. Nobody actually came forth to say yes or no to this question (still very interested in opinions regarding this). But it sounds like 1 or 2 folks in this thread have something against the Modwright anyway. Not sure I understand why.

InfernoSTi · « **Reply #101 on:** 28 Nov 2011, 04:08 am »

Quote from: Steve on 24 Nov 2011, 05:31 pm

(not bound for sound as they have been honest over the years)

That is good to hear you think highly of BFS. They are going to be reviewing a set of speakers I'm having built and the manufacturer had stated similar opinions to your comments. The speakers are off topic so I won't mention anything more on that point.

As I stated earlier, I appreciate your comments, Steve.

John

Steve · « **Reply #102 on:** 30 Nov 2011, 02:21 pm »

Quote from: InfernoSTi on 28 Nov 2011, 04:08 am

That is good to hear you think highly of BFS. They are going to be reviewing a set of speakers I'm having built and the manufacturer had stated similar opinions to your comments. The speakers are off topic so I won't mention anything more on that point.

As I stated earlier, I appreciate your comments, Steve.

John

You're welcome John.

Cheers.

ajzepp · « **Reply #103 on:** 18 Dec 2011, 12:19 am »

I've owned my SAS 10a for over a year now, and the sound stage I get is just huge with my Maggies. I've even been REALLY close to forgoing surround sound, because when I run my bluray player into the 10a directly, the sound is amazing. I have gone back and forth with a center over the years, but with the 10a it creates such a believable, holographic center fill that it's pretty ridiculous. The sound is even better when I fire up my music collection on my laptop

Indiansprings · « **Reply #104 on:** 19 Dec 2011, 06:32 pm »

I think the Audible Illusions 3A fits in this area nicely.

JoshK · « **Reply #105 on:** 19 Dec 2011, 08:57 pm »

So far I'd have to say my DIYHifiSupply Tram II OTL preamp is the most holographic preamp I've heard to date.

ncblue · « **Reply #106 on:** 19 Dec 2011, 11:41 pm »

I own the Modwright LS 100 and I would say that it's a very holographic preamp. I have owned Audio Reseach, Naim and Classe preamps in the past and I would say the Modwright beats them all. Soundstaging is not at the top of my personal sonic list, but the LS 100 throws a very large, deep soundfield with solid images placed appropriately. Great sense of space through the headphone jack as well. (my Grado GS 1000s may have a little to do with tag though).

rollo · « **Reply #107 on:** 20 Dec 2011, 05:33 pm »

How about a Preamp that captures what is on the recording better. Preamps do not create 3D images. It is in the recording. They can be better at extracting such and thats about all.

charles
SMA

woodsyi · « **Reply #108 on:** 20 Dec 2011, 05:39 pm »

Quote from: rollo on 20 Dec 2011, 05:33 pm

How about a Preamp that captures what is on the recording better. Preamps do not create 3D images. It is in the recording. They can be better at extracting such and thats about all.

charles
SMA

Speaking of 3D, I forgot to call you. I still want to audition that Q-thing. Where is it now?

rollo · « **Reply #109 on:** 20 Dec 2011, 05:49 pm »

Quote from: woodsyi on 20 Dec 2011, 05:39 pm

Speaking of 3D, I forgot to call you. I still want to audition that Q-thing. Where is it now?

Just PM me to set up a demo . My pleasure.

charles

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #110 on:** 20 Dec 2011, 07:01 pm »

A Precision Fidelity two channel tube pre; Counterpoint and Audio Research tube pre's. That's all I've used so it's all I know. Other than ARC, the other pre's are no longer available.

SteveFord · « **Reply #111 on:** 20 Dec 2011, 09:15 pm »

Moving right along, the list to date includes the ever-popular:

Aesthetix Callisto Signature
Atma-Sphere MP-1
Audible Illusions 3A
Audio Note M3
Audio Research LS27
Audio Resarch REF 40
Audio Research Ref 5
Aucio Valve Conductor
Burmester, all
Conrad johnson Art 3
Counterpoint
darTZeel
Decware SE84C
DIYHifiSupply Tram II OTL
Eastern Electric Minimax
eva-2
Klyne
Luxman, all
Manley 300B
MBL 5011
McIntosh C500
McCormack DNA 500
Melos
MFA Venusian
Modwright LS 100
NAT Audio Symmetrical
Precision Fidelity
Purity Audio Silver Statement
SAS Labs 7A
SAS Labs 10A
SAS Labs 11A
Sun 300B
TVC
VAC Ref Sig MkII
Vitus Audio
Warpspeed Octo

ajzepp · « **Reply #112 on:** 20 Dec 2011, 11:03 pm »

Quote from: woodsyi on 20 Dec 2011, 08:31 pm

I am only trying to avoid those gears that subtract "emotions" from music in the name of "neutrality."

I've been trying to wrap my head around this but it makes no sense to me. How can neutrality take away the emotions from the music? Unless it's changing the notes or causing the performer to play with less passion and conviction, this point is lost on me. I guess I'm just in the camp that believes the magic is in the recording and the more neutral and transparent the system is, the better. I like tubes because they allow the instruments and vocals to maintain the natural warmth and presence that they have naturally.

ajzepp · « **Reply #113 on:** 20 Dec 2011, 11:52 pm »

woodsyi · « **Reply #114 on:** 21 Dec 2011, 01:39 pm »

Quote from: ajzepp on 20 Dec 2011, 11:03 pm

I've been trying to wrap my head around this but it makes no sense to me. How can neutrality take away the emotions from the music? Unless it's changing the notes or causing the performer to play with less passion and conviction, this point is lost on me. I guess I'm just in the camp that believes the magic is in the recording and the more neutral and transparent the system is, the better. I like tubes because they allow the instruments and vocals to maintain the natural warmth and presence that they have naturally.

The way I understand it is that an active preamp just don't get out of the way. It's not just relaying source signals. Regardless of gain, a preamp is rebuilding the signal that came from the source. What the amp sees is the output voltage from the preamp which may or may not be exactly the same as the signal that went into the preamp. The preamp is responsible to produce it's own clean power that has to be manipulated to recreate the source signal. In the process, some information can be lost. Like the Dolby Noise Reduction (C anyway) on cassette tapes of yore, it can rob the music of it's artistic power.

I don't know all the technical details of distortions and phase shifts that a preamp has to clean up as it rebuilds the source signal. Some do it without sacrificing the soul of the music. Some lose it in the process. This is what I meant by "in the name of neutrality."

DTB300 · « **Reply #115 on:** 21 Dec 2011, 02:18 pm »

Quote from: jackman on 20 Dec 2011, 11:45 pm

Huh?

I'm looking for a preamp with an "emotions" knob that I can crank, full blast.

A friend of a friend was making a pre amp and when completed the buyer just did not get enough "love", "emotions", etc. So he installed a 2nd order harmonics knob and the buyer loved it. I even think it went to 11 - LOL

Steve · « **Reply #116 on:** 21 Dec 2011, 02:23 pm »

Quote from: ajzepp on 20 Dec 2011, 11:03 pm

I've been trying to wrap my head around this but it makes no sense to me. How can neutrality take away the emotions from the music?

You are correct it cannot, by definition AJ. Neutral means it leans in no particular way. If it adds or subtracts, then it is not neutral.

Quote

Unless it's changing the notes or causing the performer to play with less passion and conviction, this point is lost on me.

Again you are correct AJ. The only way is by the performer himself. Neutral means, by definition, that the emotions in the recording have not been lost through a component. To say otherwise is to equate "neutral" with "coloration", "sonic signature" etc. In otherwards a contradiction.

Cheers.

Steve · « **Reply #117 on:** 21 Dec 2011, 02:25 pm »

Quote from: Steve on 21 Dec 2011, 02:23 pm

It cannot, by definition AJ. Neutral means it leans in no particular way. If it adds or subtracts, then it is not neutral.

You are correct AJ. The only way is by the performer himself. Neutral means, by definition, that the emotions in the recording have not been lost through a component. To say otherwise is to equate "neutral" with "coloration", "sonic signature" etc. In otherwards a contradiction.

Cheers.

roymail · « **Reply #118 on:** 21 Dec 2011, 08:58 pm »

I don't have enough experience in this hobby to suggest a holographic sounding preamp, so maybe I should not post this question. But, since some of you guys do have lots of experience, I thought I'd go ahead and ask anyway.

What I'd really like to hear from my little system I can best describe as spacious or more space around the instruments and/or voices. How is this best accomplished? Thanks!

ajzepp · « **Reply #119 on:** 21 Dec 2011, 09:39 pm »

Quote from: Steve on 21 Dec 2011, 02:23 pm

It cannot, by definition AJ. Neutral means it leans in no particular way. If it adds or subtracts, then it is not neutral. In otherwards neutral is accurate.

You are correct AJ. The only way is by the performer himself. Neutral means, by definition, that the emotions in the recording have not been lost through a component. To say otherwise is to equate "neutral" with "coloration", "sonic signature" etc. In otherwards a contradiction.

Cheers.

Since we're talking about holographic reproduction, I have a great example...

I usually use my McCormack MAP (solid state) multi-channel pre for HT and my SAS 10a for music. Well, the McCormack is at a friend's place right now and I have been using the 10a for double duty. I happened to start watching "The Pacific" on this HBO-GO thing on my iPhone. I really enjoyed the first few episodes (made by the same folks who did "Band of Brothers"), and the other night I figured I'd just rent the next episode on Amazon streaming so that I could watch it on my 120" screen. Mind you, when I watched Band of Brothers, it was on bluray disc a few years ago and I had the same Maggie 3.6 speakers and Butler amps, but was still using my trusty-but-retired Outlaw Audio 950 pre/pro.

The sound back then was very good, but even though Band of Brothers was on bluray audio and this Pacific episode was through the lowly outputs on my little Roku box, the sound this time was much more engulfing and with a fair bit more depth. The 10a is fantastic with movie duty, even in 2-channel, and even with an inexpensive stock source and a streaming movie. I was watching with my lady friend, and she commented on how it felt as if we were fighting on Guadalcanal along with the U.S. troops! It was one of the most impressive audio performances I've had yet with the 10a, especially given the source material. And believe me, if you're goign to have a preamp that can produce "holographic sound", you want it to be when watching a war program! When the flares started goign off and the gunfire and mortar explosions began, I honestly had a vicarious experience and felt scared for my life!

By the way, God bless the U.S. military!!