Song towers in the house

Bigfishhk · « **on:** 30 Oct 2011, 06:07 pm »

Happy to announce I can finally listen to my new ST's instead of just reading about everyone else listening to theirs!

Despite the less than ideal placement in corners (approx 1ft from front wall, and 7ft apart), they sound wonderful. I have even tried them as close as 8" to wall. Didn't detect boominess, and bass response seemed even better. Will keep testing different placements, but they seem pretty easygoing in this regard.

Replacing my Infinity Kappa 8.1's with 12" woofers, the ST's sound more musical, detailed, esp in mid range.. and the bass is more articulate, if not quite as pronounced as my Kappa's (which was boomier).

I know I will enjoy the ST's for years to come. At some point may add a sub, we'll see, but certainly in no hurry. And would love to hear them with tubes since I keep reading about what a good match that is.. Currently I am powering with a Krell 400xi (200 watts int).
Q- Does a tube amp provide as much bass slam as a decent SS? If any ST's owners reading this have compared tube/ SS amps with their speakers, I'd be grateful for feedback on the pros and cons. many thanks

Color is a slightly darker version of honey oak, kind of amber oak..

Finally a Salk family member!!!

best,

Tom Barnes.

jsalk · « **Reply #1 on:** 30 Oct 2011, 06:41 pm »

Quote from: Bigfishhk on 30 Oct 2011, 06:07 pm

Q- Does a tube amp provide as much bass slam as a decent SS? If any ST's owners reading this have compared tube/ SS amps with their speakers, I'd be grateful for feedback on the pros and cons. many thanks

Tom -

Generally, a tube amp will sound somewhat warmer and smoother in the mids, but it will not control the bass as tightly as a good solid state amp. With solid state, the bass will generally be tighter and more well-controlled. These are generalities and results will differ from amp to amp. But this is often the case.

- Jim

R Swerdlow · « **Reply #2 on:** 30 Oct 2011, 06:48 pm »

Congrats on your new speakers

! After the 30-day return period expires, we will teach you the secret handshake.

Once your ears are more accustomed to the STs, after a few weeks or months of listening, you might it interesting to drag out your old Infinity Kappas, and listen to them again. You might find your old speakers sound more muddy than you remember.

I'm glad to hear you actually tried the STs close to wall behind them and heard no ill effects. Your experience has been observed by more than a few others. In my opinion, a lot of people worry too much about that, and over-react by getting front mounted ports in anticipation of a problem.

I personally doubt your Krell amp lacks any thing for your STs. There will certainly be other opinions on this subject.

Mag · « **Reply #3 on:** 30 Oct 2011, 06:55 pm »

>>Q- Does a tube amp provide as much bass slam as a decent SS? If any ST's owners reading this have compared tube/ SS amps with their speakers, I'd be grateful for feedback on the pros and cons. many thanks<<

SS has what I call vitality, that tubes lack. Fast, aggressive, quick response, whereas tube sound lags, slow response, mellow for lack of a better term.

You really have to listen to both to know which you prefer.

kingdeezie · « **Reply #4 on:** 30 Oct 2011, 07:13 pm »

Quote from: Mag on 30 Oct 2011, 06:55 pm

>>Q- Does a tube amp provide as much bass slam as a decent SS? If any ST's owners reading this have compared tube/ SS amps with their speakers, I'd be grateful for feedback on the pros and cons. many thanks<<

SS has what I call vitality, that tubes lack. Fast, aggressive, quick response, whereas tube sound lags, slow response, mellow for lack of a better term.

You really have to listen to both to know which you prefer.

Completely generalized and not at all truth.

I have a Purity One preamp that is fast, dynamic, with excellent transient speed. It also adds 3D sound staging and tone that SS preamps can't even dream about.

The ONE place I would always recommend tubes is preamp.

R Swerdlow · « **Reply #5 on:** 30 Oct 2011, 08:12 pm »

To directly answer the OP's tube amp question, I have heard many different SS amps (from 30 wpc to over 200 wpc) driving SongTowers and only one tube amp with them, the 35 wpc AVA UltraValve http://www.avahifi.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=250&Itemid=235.

Frankly, all of the amps I heard did rather well with the STs including the UltraValve. The higher powered amps do tend to control the bass better than the lower powered amps.

Other than that, I heard no obviously distinct difference with that AVA tube amp driving STs. According to lore from the tube amp devotees, the AVA amps don't have that characteristic tube amp sound.

adydula · « **Reply #6 on:** 31 Oct 2011, 01:19 am »

Congratulations on your SongTowers, I have had a set for more than 2 years now and never have I once regretted the puchase.

They have brought me countless hours of bliss!

I have had several amps both solid state, receivers, tube.

The one I like the best is the AVA Ultravalve....bass is very tight, taunt and just overwhelming good and all the rest of the spectrum is very nice too.

All my music is now played from a laptop, flacs to a USB DAC (HRT Music Streamer ii +) to a AVA Insight + Pre Amp to the Ultravalve.

Its a wonderful, wonderful sounding system...the SongTowers are a classic and I am sure
you will enjoy them very much.

All the best and Enjoy!!
Alex

Bigfishhk · « **Reply #7 on:** 31 Oct 2011, 01:34 am »

Thanks for the feedback folks. I will hang onto the info.
The song towers do prove the maxim that all good things come to those who wait.

Tom

Nuance · « **Reply #8 on:** 31 Oct 2011, 02:04 pm »

Quote from: Mag on 30 Oct 2011, 06:55 pm

SS has what I call vitality, that tubes lack. Fast, aggressive, quick response, whereas tube sound lags, slow response, mellow for lack of a better term.

You really have to listen to both to know which you prefer.

I completely agree with this, word for word.

Welcome to the Salk family, Bigfishhk!

adydula · « **Reply #9 on:** 31 Oct 2011, 10:47 pm »

Q- Does a tube amp provide as much bass slam as a decent SS? If any ST's owners reading this have compared tube/ SS amps with their speakers, I'd be grateful for feedback on the pros and cons. many thanks

I just got thru listening to Gordon Goodwins
"Property Of Gordon Goodwin's Big Phat Band XXL "

http://www.amazon.com/Property-Gordon-Goodwins-Phat-Band/dp/B0000CABHC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1320100694&sr=8-1

Play this really loud and if you survive,

You will have no doubt if your amp and your songtowers are fast or slow. period.

OMG this CD with a measly 35 watts from and Ultravalve with a pair of SongTowers is truly
amazing...not once did I think that tube sounds lags or has a slow response...golly gee batman this music is a tell-tale keep your audio chain honest all around piece.

The sound is FAST, dynamic, slams and after 20 min of this I was smiling SO big I had to stop....maybe all tube amps are not the same, but this tube amp is not slow or lagging in any way...

Your SS amp you now have is a good piece of gear....if you ever decide to try a tube amp, get one to audition and make your own comparison....

Get a copy of this CD if your system can keep up with the energy in this material its time to sit back and just enjoy those really neat SongTowers!!

All the best
Alex

Bigfishhk · « **Reply #10 on:** 1 Nov 2011, 02:33 am »

You are right, time to just enjoy the music. Am listening to Ry Cooders Paris Texas soundtrack at this moment and it's blissful. Clearly the krell-Salk match is fairing pretty Ok.
The song towers are every thing they say.
Tom

Saturn94 · « **Reply #11 on:** 2 Nov 2011, 03:00 am »

Quote from: adydula on 31 Oct 2011, 10:47 pm

........I just got thru listening to Gordon Goodwins
"Property Of Gordon Goodwin's Big Phat Band XXL "

http://www.amazon.com/Property-Gordon-Goodwins-Phat-Band/dp/B0000CABHC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1320100694&sr=8-1

Play this really loud and if you survive,
You will have no doubt if your amp and your songtowers are fast or slow. period.........

Just took a listen to the samples. Sounds like I'll have to buy this.

Thanks for the suggestion.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #12 on:** 2 Nov 2011, 06:02 am »

All of the Gordon Goodwin albums are winners....

http://www.amazon.com/Gordon-Goodwin/e/B001LHOWZK/works/ref=ep_artist_tab_w

Enjoy those Song Towers....

Nuance · « **Reply #13 on:** 2 Nov 2011, 02:24 pm »

Quote from: Bigfishhk on 30 Oct 2011, 06:07 pm

Q- Does a tube amp provide as much bass slam as a decent SS? If any ST's owners reading this have compared tube/ SS amps with their speakers, I'd be grateful for feedback on the pros and cons. many thanks

Oops - I missed this... In my experience, no it doesn't. The last tube amp (actually it was a hybrid) I had gave a fuller bass sound, but it was slower and a bit fat. With my Parasound SS amp, the bass slam is hard, tight and fast. Even my wife and brother noticed a difference, though oddly enough they preferred the Butler to the Parasound. To get the "tube" sound I much prefer a tube preamp or DAC; my amp will always be solid state due to reasons explained above. YMMV, of course. It's all about system synergy, so there is no wrong or right as long as you're happy.

Bigfishhk · « **Reply #14 on:** 2 Nov 2011, 10:29 pm »

To get the "tube" sound I much prefer a tube preamp or DAC; my amp will always be solid state due to reasons explained above.

Do you mean you have a tube pre amp and ss power amp combo now? How does the dac fit in re tubes?
My integrated ss is doing well, though i do remember the pleasing warmth and soundstage I heard on the songtowers/ ultra valve pairing. But it was such a quick listen I didn't have time to get very far in my comparison.
Not trying to ignite the old tube vs ss amp debate, but really appreciate the various songtower owner's experience. Thanks again.

Tom

Nuance · « **Reply #15 on:** 3 Nov 2011, 01:02 pm »

Quote from: Bigfishhk on 2 Nov 2011, 10:29 pm

To get the "tube" sound I much prefer a tube preamp or DAC; my amp will always be solid state due to reasons explained above.

Do you mean you have a tube pre amp and ss power amp combo now? How does the dac fit in re tubes?
My integrated ss is doing well, though i do remember the pleasing warmth and soundstage I heard on the songtowers/ ultra valve pairing. But it was such a quick listen I didn't have time to get very far in my comparison.
Not trying to ignite the old tube vs ss amp debate, but really appreciate the various songtower owner's experience. Thanks again.

Tom

I don't currently have a tube preamp or DAC right now, no. One of the reference systems I listen to frequently (TJHUB's - he has a tube preamp, tube DAC and solid state monoblock amps) does, though, and it sounds great. Having heard many systems, I've always felt the bass was a bit slow and fat with a tube amplifier. However, a tube preamp and/or DAC doesn't seem to lose control of the bass; it more effects the midrange, highs and soundstage in my experience. I am one who subscribes to the "tube magic," but I'm very picky and don't yet have time to go on the "perfect tube preamp/tube rolling" journey. What they do to the midrange and soundstage, though...it's pretty awesome!

Concerning your question about tube DACs, it depends on the manufacturer. Some allow tube rolling, such as the EE DAC+ (which is on my short list), and some do not. Experimentation and system synergy is key, and your experience may differ vastly for mine due to various reasons (especially the differences in room acoustics/dimensions).

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #16 on:** 3 Nov 2011, 01:16 pm »

The SongTowers are an easy load to drive so a tubed amp will work just fine. A decent 40 to 50 watt integrated like a Jolida or Rogue would be cool. Tubed amps on difficult loads like HT3's or SoundScapes require more sophisticated designs and much more moola to get control of those woofers and integrate well.

If you are after ST's performing in a primarily 2 channel set-up then the world is your oyster when it comes to low cost amps.

Most of us, not all, enjoy the tubed pre and SS amp combo. With the ST's I would be less concerned about controlling those smaller woofers with a tube amp and enjoy.

Quote from: Bigfishhk on 2 Nov 2011, 10:29 pm

To get the "tube" sound I much prefer a tube preamp or DAC; my amp will always be solid state due to reasons explained above.

Do you mean you have a tube pre amp and ss power amp combo now? How does the dac fit in re tubes?
My integrated ss is doing well, though i do remember the pleasing warmth and soundstage I heard on the songtowers/ ultra valve pairing. But it was such a quick listen I didn't have time to get very far in my comparison.
Not trying to ignite the old tube vs ss amp debate, but really appreciate the various songtower owner's experience. Thanks again.

Tom

Vulcan00 · « **Reply #17 on:** 3 Nov 2011, 03:12 pm »

Quote from: Big Red Machine on 3 Nov 2011, 01:16 pm

The SongTowers are an easy load to drive so a tubed amp will work just fine. A decent 40 to 50 watt integrated like a Jolida or Rogue would be cool. Tubed amps on difficult loads like HT3's or SoundScapes require more sophisticated designs and much more moola to get control of those woofers and integrate well.

If you are after ST's performing in a primarily 2 channel set-up then the world is your oyster when it comes to low cost amps.

Most of us, not all, enjoy the tubed pre and SS amp combo. With the ST's I would be less concerned about controlling those smaller woofers with a tube amp and enjoy.

Hey Bigg'n:

In regard to HT2-TL's what type and power tube amp would you recommend?

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #18 on:** 3 Nov 2011, 03:18 pm »

Quote from: Vulcan00 on 3 Nov 2011, 03:12 pm

Hey Bigg'n:

In regard to HT2-TL's what type and power tube amp would you recommend?

I'm pretty confident these will work:

http://www.tuberesearchlabs.com/products/gt400.htm

jtwrace · « **Reply #19 on:** 3 Nov 2011, 03:19 pm »

Quote from: Big Red Machine on 3 Nov 2011, 03:18 pm

I'm pretty confident these will work:

http://www.tuberesearchlabs.com/products/gt400.htm

Y to the YES!