[Rick Craig]

I'm still very disappointed that I was not able to attend the show.  A family committment prevented me from joining in on all of the fun.   

Seeing and hearing audio gear in person is probably the best way to make a decision or an assessment regarding which gear sounds best (to each of us and our highly subjective views) but shows can be tricky.   If someone is unfamiliar with a piece of gear or a manufacturer, they seem to grade very strictly, and they are quick and comfortable giving negative feedback.  People often say things like, "those speakers sounded awful", or "speaker XXX totally stomped all over speaker YYY" when they don't know the manufacturer or if they don't have a relationship with the manufacturer.  When their favorite manufacturer has a room that sounds bad, or that others criticize, they are quick to attribute it to bad synergy with associated equipment, bad room or that the speakers were new and did not have time to break in.   Others only make negative comments about brands that are safe to criticize and do not comment negatively on their fanboy brands. 

This is common human nature and I'm not sure people realize they are even doing it.  In many cases, the reasons for not commenting negatively are legitimate.  Many rooms are not suitable for certain pieces (large speakers often sound bad in small rooms and bass is often difficult to control in small rooms, etc.) and manufacturers are often forced to team up with other manufacturers (for budgetary or logistical reasons) whose equipment may not play nice with their stuff.  People are quick to defend their favorites but do not extend the same courtesy to brands they don't know or more mainstream brands that are "safe" to criticize.  There is probably no way around this but I hope people take this into consideration and do not substitute second hand accounts of people who audition gear at shows in place of actual auditions. The negative comments (and positive comments for that matter) are often not even handed. 

Just my opinion...

J

Thanks for making some good points. I think it's a lame excuse for a speaker manufacturer to blame the front end equipment. Most of the audible problems with these shows are one of three things (or a combination of) - room acoustics, recordings, and the speakers. The bass issues can be just as bad (or even worse) in the larger exhibit rooms.

 I would be hesitant to criticize a system that sounds bad if I don't know the recording. The system might be really good and just exposing flaws in the source material. I had a few visitors to our room bring in music that had obvious problems (miking,compression,etc). If I was a listener and judged the speakers based on those tracks my comments certainly wouldn't have been positive.

[stlrman]

Steve,
Aurora's have amazing bass. To me the bass sounded way more powerful then the Breeze or Cirrus.
I did not have a real long listen, but they sounded pretty amazing to me. I would say that maybe they did not have the detail and refinement of the Breeze or Cirrus, but maybe they would sound even better in a bigger room. The fit and finish of the Aurora was outstanding. I would think buying the stands would be mandatory due to their size and shape. At $2750 with stands I thought they were a steal. So if you are looking for a good to great all arounder , and don't want to add a subwoofer, I feel like the Aurora is a steal at their price point.
Todd

[roscoeiii]

I'd concur with what Todd said on the Auroras based on what I heard in Chicago. I was amazed at how well the Auroras pressurized the big room that they were in at the Chicago DIY event.

[saeyedoc]

Steve,
Aurora's have amazing bass. To me the bass sounded way more powerful then the Breeze or Cirrus.
I did not have a real long listen, but they sounded pretty amazing to me. I would say that maybe they did not have the detail and refinement of the Breeze or Cirrus, but maybe they would sound even better in a bigger room. The fit and finish of the Aurora was outstanding. I would think buying the stands would be mandatory due to their size and shape. At $2750 with stands I thought they were a steal. So if you are looking for a good to great all arounder , and don't want to add a subwoofer, I feel like the Aurora is a steal at their price point.
Todd

Where did you get $2750 with stands? The website has them at $2695 without stands.

[stlrman]

I overheard this. I may have heard wrong. Sorry. That said, $2750 may get done if you ask nicely.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Price is dependent on veneer type and level of gloss desired.
.....or so I'd assume.

[pardales]

Selah Audio








Rick (Selah Audio) brought a pair of bi-amp speakers he named the Gamechanger ($10-12,000).

Don Keele of Audio Artistry was also in the room explaining the technology behind the design and also his CBT36 kit ($2,000) that is being offered from Parts Express. 

I have heard several line array speakers in the past and not been moved by them. 

I really liked the appearance and size in person.  I understand that some will not understand.  I apologize for the poor phone pictures I posted.  Hopefully there will be some high resolution photos posted here or on Selah audio website to see how high quality the workmanship is on the speakers.

This system was spectacular with all types of music I heard on them over the course of both days.  These were built as a fully active pair with electronic crossover and eq duties being handled by a DEQX.  Multichannel amp and source from Marantz. 

The dynamics I heard on this system were in another league from most systems I have ever experienced.  This system had a jump factor that has to be experienced. 

I have to agree with the name Rick gave them 

Several days later I simply cannot get the sound of this system out of my audio memory.

If I was starting a new reference system these would likely be the speaker I would build around.

-Nick

Great coverage, Nick!   

[saeyedoc]

Did anyone get the specs on the Aurora? Sensitivity, Freq response, size, etc. The idea of an 8" woofer in a stand-mount has some appeal.

[klaus@odyssey]

It's all good.  Very good.

First off,  thanks to so many of you guys stopping by our room.  Secondly,  mega thanks to Bryan.  Without his gear the room would have been indeed completely and utterly  impossible with anything above 70 dB or so.  Anybody having any acoustical problems should get with him yesterday,  and the arts series looks very nice with a high quality print.  Excellent stuff !!!!!!  This should be widely known by now......

As for our room,  we pretty much had the same exact gear playing as we did in Denver last year,  which was pretty damn triumphant.  Can be seen at TAS, Stereophile, Soundstage, Stereomojo, Dagogo, Positive Feedback, etc. etc. and especially  here from Pez and Tyson... http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=99215.20

So,  what is different this time ??? First,  we had a $ 200. Marantz CD Player,(on Sunday we had vinyl up and running, on a $ 500. VPI,   and that made a nice difference)  just to make a point,  and second, obviously the room itself.  Jackman and others nailed it.  To be short,  it is a pig of a boombox (we did make the mistake of getting the biggest room,  %^#%*^*%^$%$*$^#^(^&^&$),  and for the most part we had to bring the music down.  However,  who can really resist rocking out ????  Some of the comments are more than fair,  and if that is what some of you heard,  so be it.  At times, I heard the same problems, of course.  Now,  this show was more of a happy go lucky  friends first show in comparison to other more hardcore business approaches.  Very noticeable in the absence of most magazines, and dealers, etc.  Made it a fantastically relaxed atmosphere in which, unfortunately,  we probably got too relaxed at times and let volume get out of hand a bit. 

Anyway, we had to counteract the room, and   at the end of the 2nd day we ended up with only 3 (Three) listening chairs.  From the get-go we did a more nearfield approach with the monitors wayyyy into the room to take the boombox out as much as possible.  Helped.  A lot.  However,  it is always the mystery of the wandering chairs,  especially when there is a crowd.  When there is a lot going on,  which was for the most part of Saturday,  you tend to push up the volume,  which could have been a mistake,  yes.

However,  several times I found myself with a great and serious listening group,  and voila, lights off, shutting up, and Masekela and, especially Miles Live Time after Time or the Swedish "The Rose" version.  When this happened, I was able to get people situated right, and adjust the volume,  and then,  in this situation,  the system sounded as it should...... Actually,  we had applause from some in these sessions 4 times.  Great .  This kind of Jekyll and Hyde weekend thus results in these mixed opinions.  Hindsight 20/20,  it is very understandable. 

Now,  as for harsh words from Stirman,  no problem.  Actually,  I have a standing invite for you.  Indy is not too far.  Come on over.  Make a road trip,  maybe with some buddies.  Even bring your gear,  and listen to the system and the monitors as they are in a more realistic setting.  Not for business,  but to have fun.  We can bbq, have fun,  but be aware that I'll make you eat your words,  hehehehehe.   

With that few rooms I could actually get around as compared to other shows.  As for my impressions for the show itself,  here is what I liked:

-Salk.  Nice.  I liked it,  and man,  Jim is a freaking wild man with his veneers.  Awesome.

- Bogdan.  First of all,  a truly nice guy.  And his big speakers sounded pretty darn good, rich in texture and voices,   albeit the same room problems as ours with his big room at the end of our floor.  Meeting rooms suck.

- Swap rooms.  What can I say ??? Came home with 38 more records,  hehehehe.

- Hawthorne.  Actually,  very, very  nice approach of the o.b. design.  Liked it better than other OB's.

- Vapor.  Also very good.  And another really good person with Ray. 

- The pumpkin speakers from Oasis have to be one of the freshest designs in years.  What an idea,  and what a great workmanship.  As for sound,  have no idea,  and have reservations,  but this family deserves success,  if not for their artistic approach in the first place.

-Selah.  What an arc !!!!

- And let's not forget all of the AK member's rooms.  You guys are positively nuts in doing all of this work and expense just for the exhibitionist satisfaction.   Fantastic.  And some of the gear you came up with !!!!!!!

- RAAL tweeters.  Of course, awesome,  BUT for me,  the Scan Speak Berylliums simply take the cake.  The best in natural and controlled timbre and tonality.  Simply the best.!!!

So,  even with its pitfalls, this weekend was great.  And when do you really have a chance in having an elevator ride or a conversation with some Zombies that are actually hot and show long legs and cleavage ????
The bottom line of the weekend was great people, great music, and hey,  selling 1 stand, a Candela,  3  amp upgrades and 4 new amps as well as 4 pairs of speakers (3 x Kismet Monitors) isn't shabby either.

It's all good.  Very good.

[Bob in St. Louis]

You're a class act dude. 

[studiotech]

Thanks for making some good points. I think it's a lame excuse for a speaker manufacturer to blame the front end equipment. Most of the audible problems with these shows are one of three things (or a combination of) - room acoustics, recordings, and the speakers. The bass issues can be just as bad (or even worse) in the larger exhibit rooms.

 I would be hesitant to criticize a system that sounds bad if I don't know the recording. The system might be really good and just exposing flaws in the source material. I had a few visitors to our room bring in music that had obvious problems (miking,compression,etc). If I was a listener and judged the speakers based on those tracks my comments certainly wouldn't have been positive.

So true Rick.  Every show I go to, I make a custom track with short clips of material I am familiar with all faded and edited together into something that can give a me very quick idea of the capabilities of a room.  If I cannot play my disc, I try to refrain from making any comments on the sound.  People just browsing in and out of rooms, hearing material they are not familiar with and making comments is downright unfair.

Also, rooms continuously playing, light "chick" singers and soft jazz can be misleading.  This kind of material can sound OK on most systems an does not give a full picture of what a speaker can reproduce.  Tracks with wide ranges of frequencies and dynamics are more telling.

Greg

[Pete Schumacher]

Did anyone get the specs on the Aurora? Sensitivity, Freq response, size, etc. The idea of an 8" woofer in a stand-mount has some appeal.

The Aurora enclosure is roughly 1.1 cubic feet, tuned to 33Hz, producing modeled F3 of 36Hz, with a baseline calculated sensitivity of 91dB/2.83V.

I voiced it in my living room, which has vaulted ceilings, very open rear wall, and 18 x 15 wall dimensions.  Final sensitivity runs right about 88dB/2.83V, or about 3dB baffle step compensation.  For smaller rooms, the overall voicing could be altered slightly, to offer a bit more sensitivity, 90dB, and letting the room do some of the heavier lifting down low.

Here's a shot of the in-room response, on axis, as well as a series of off axis plots showing the excellent performance offered by the waveguide loaded dome.

The first plot also shows the THD performance at 1W.  The bass region distortion is swamped by room interactions.  That said, from 100Hz on up, distortion is below 1%, and below .3% from 300Hz on up.  They're very clean speakers with a neutral voicing and smooth power response.  Crossover in this version is 1100Hz, LR4.

[roscoeiii]

Beautiful measurements Pete. Wow.

Those are in room folks. I'd guess that ~200Hz dip of -5dB is likely due to the room. That's a good deal smaller in-room dip than you usually see in such measurements (for example, in the most recent Stereophile in-room measurements of the $7k Joseph Pulsars see the trough from ~200Hz that is about 5dB down until close to 100Hz, where it DIPS again to -10 dB, before climbing to a +5dB peak around ~50Hz. This was for a speaker that Fremer was raving about).

And great off-axis measurements. Very very nice. And I thought I was a fan before seeing those measurements.

1100Hz crossover point to boot? Damn.

OK gotta stop raving before someone starts hurling "fanboy" accusations at me.

[Pete Schumacher]

Beautiful measurements Pete. Wow.

Those are in room folks. I'd guess that ~200Hz dip of -5dB is likely due to the room. That's a good deal smaller in-room dip than you usually see in such measurements (for example, in the most recent Stereophile in-room measurements of the $7k Joseph Pulsars see the trough from ~200Hz that is about 5dB down until close to 100Hz, where it DIPS again to -10 dB, before climbing to a +5dB peak around ~50Hz. This was for a speaker that Fremer was raving about).

And great off-axis measurements. Very very nice. And I thought I was a fan before seeing those measurements.

1100Hz crossover point to boot? Damn.

OK gotta stop raving before someone starts hurling "fanboy" accusations at me.

The 200Hz dip is indeed wall/floor boundary interaction.  When close-mic'd, the woofer is textbook smooth.  On one other note, the woofer non-linear spectrum is almost entirely 2nd order.  The Vifa NE225 has a very advanced motor design, with some of the lowest measured inductance seen in a woofer, much less one categorized as a sub by Vifa.  Lot's of copper and a very open frame, along with an advanced curvilinear wood composite cone, contribute to a very natural reproduction of upper bass and mids.  They're really great performing woofers that have liquid mids to go with their powerful low end.  Those woofers, in Ed's "black hole" cabinets, is a match made in heaven.

By the way, those are un-gated measurements, with simple 1/6th octave smoothing applied.  No splicing of near and far field data. 

That's 1m, 2.83V, in-room, raw, 1/6th octave smoothed.  Needless to say, I smile when I look at those plots. 

[saeyedoc]

Pete, how would you compare the sound of the Aurora to the Cirrus?

[Pete Schumacher]

Pete, how would you compare the sound of the Aurora to the Cirrus?

It's pretty stark actually.  Both are voiced with the same overall approach, but the character of the tweeter is so pronounced when listened to in close succession.  While the Aurora simply has more capacity to energize the room in the lower registers, the transparency offered by the Cirrus is something that the Aurora doesn't quite do.  That sentiment was echoed by someone in this thread, where they described it as relaxed, or something like that, by comparison. 

And this is where ears or measurements are the final arbiter on what constitutes "better."  I find it very difficult to find any fault at all with what we accomplished in the Aurora.  They sound great, measure great, look great, and really deliver.  When I want to turn it up and feel the music, I might lean toward the Aurora.  But when I really want hear the detail of an excellent recording, full of harmonic richness in the upper registers, I would prefer hearing the RAAL for what it delivers to my ears, despite not seeing much difference in the measurements.  And the cabinet construction employed in the Cirrus, with the huge roundovers, contributes to a very smooth diffraction signature, which can only improve imaging.  That, and they're as dead as the Aurora, contributing nothing to the exterior sound via panel vibration.

And if you know Ryan, the search for better is never over.  And to approach that certain sound the Cirrus/Breeze deliver, we're looking at other tweeter options, exotic domes with uber powerful motors and lightweight domes, that can also work with this waveguide, to perhaps eek out just a bit more of the underlying detail that these RAALs seem to so effortlessly deliver.

All that said, I sat listening to the Auroras for hours and hours, to a wide variety of music, at low levels and high, and never got tired of listening.  I'd start at 6 in the evening, and before I realized it, 2:00am showed up on the computer.  They do so much, so right, and deliver tactile music when needed, like very few monitors can.

[sharpsuxx]

Well said Pete.