[Pez]

You think you can compare components in a meaningful way in different rooms and setups a year apart?    

Study after study (plus personal experience) shows people can't do this days or even hours apart, yet you can do it a year apart?

Sorry, not buying it.

George

Study after study of who exactly? I don't give a f#%€ what joe schmo can or can't do, but a trained ear of someone who is used to 'hearing' as a way of life is capable of a lot more than what any study would 'prove'. Most people can't tell the difference between two instruments slightly out of pitch, but a trained conductor can not only do so they can pick that instrument out of an entire section. Try and tell me that auditory memory is limited to a few hours and I'll show you an audiophile that needs a new hobby.

Jason

[Crimson]

Yeah, baby!!

Agree 100%.

Just got back from a jam session with my band (me, my son, and the third guy) and we always know who's been tapping the Jack. And who hasn't. 

The ear is king. That's what it's all about.

Either you got it. Or ya don't.

[doug s.]

You absolutely can judge individual components. Some manufacturers like nordost actually force you to hear the difference between many of their products at the show. Also if you are familiar with setups from one year to the next and the manufacturer makes a few changes often it is those few changes that make huge differences. Last year the Daedalus room was pretty bad for most of the show, the problem was pretty clearly the Atmasphere amps. This year the Daedalus room was better than ever with new modwright amp and first Sound preamp. Clearly those were the largest contributing factors to the increase in sound quality albeit the whole system was excellent from the bolder modded touch to the Ulysses and bow speaker setup.

This year I called it perfectly in the Purity / VSA room. The McCalister amps were most definitely the problem in that room. I could tell it was the individual component and not the system as a whole that was the problem. I even said as much prior to the discovery by Bill et al that the amps were indeed the issue and came to the very same conclusion after closer investigation.

You become familiar with many of the vendors 'house sound' and based on that combined with a solid foundation of experience with a lot of equipment will allow a truly discerning ear to judge individual components.

sometimes you can do it.  as you just demonstrated, jason, when you're familiar w/the "house" sound of something.  or when something is actually malfunctioning, as was the case w/the amps mentioned here.  but, i agree that, in general, if you walk into an unfamiliar room w/unfamiliar equipment, you most likely will not have a clue as to what is or is not happening w/a single given piece of gear.  even as lou of deadalus said a coupla posts after yours:

"I know that as an exhibitor it can be very very difficult to identify exactly what is going on in my own room ( or a show if doing live sound).  I'll agree that "sometimes" we can identify the individual component problem in a show room situation, BUT it is important to remember that other times we are mistaken in our judgments."

and lou is a pro, who does it for a living.  and, he's talking about his own room! i certainly don't think he's an audiophile that needs a new profession, let alone a new hobby.

of course, i do realize that there's a few folks out there like tyson who can walk into an unfamiliar room w/an unfamiliar system and tell you what the footers sound like...  because he's that good... 

doug s.

[rascal]

Do we all agree that speaker+room interaction constitutes majority (ok 70%) of sonics?

[Pez]

Yes, I agree completely Doug. If I implied at all that I can just walk into a room and tell that was not my intent. BUT sometimes you can just walk into a room and tell like with the Purity room. I could tell it was the amp because of some of the 'flaws' I heard. Not saying I would be spot on every time, or that I could do that under any circumstance, but it is possible. 

Do we all agree that speaker+room interaction constitutes majority (ok 70%) of sonics?

Can't agree to that. Though I will say that assuming nothing wrong with the front end that the speakers and room will constitute the biggest portion of the house sound.

[goldlizsts]

During the course of reading lots of the RMAF show coverage, you see people (enthusiasts, professionals, and everybody in between) make comments about how good or bad component x in a given room sounds.  I just don't get this...   

While I think there is value in having people comment on the overall performance of the system in the room and whether they enjoyed it or not, I am struggling to find value in comments on the individual components that make up the system.  When you don't know all of the gear, the room, etc...how can a person possibly know the exact impact a specific component is having?  Unless there was some type of A/B or comparison in room, it just seems like any talk (positive or negative) on a component in a show environment is useless.

Am I missing something here?

What does everybody think?

George

Great post IMO.  Even at home, with your system, you sometimes don't know where certain sounds come from, due to what component(s) or reason(s).  So, at a show, or at the dealer's, once can only know only to a limited extent.  You'd think you know, and pay for that certain great piece of great.  When you hook it up in your system, the sound somewhat changes..... I for one believe in "Your system is only as good as the weakest link in it!". 

That's why, this audio business not only gives you pleasure; it also gives you frustration and headache.  But, look at it from the positive angle, just roll with the punches, get the most enjoyment out of it!  You can only do so much, and there are many variables.

[doug s.]

Yes, I agree completely Doug. If I implied at all that I can just walk into a room and tell that was not my intent. BUT sometimes you can just walk into a room and tell like with the Purity room. I could tell it was the amp because of some of the 'flaws' I heard. Not saying I would be spot on every time, or that I could do that under any circumstance, but it is possible...

and, i understand also what you are saying.  but, imo, that's the exception, not the rule.  in the majority of cases, it will be hard to decipher what's causing what, other than a general idea of how a particular speaker type might be interacting w/a particular room...

doug s.