[rcag_ils]

53Hz is the 2dB point.  They go much lower than that.

I don't doubt it may go a little lower, but keep in mind that while the woofer trying to reproduce something lower, it's also struggling to reproduce the mid and the mid bass at the same time.

Don't get me wrong, a good amp is very worthwhile,  but the point I'm trying to make is to use what an instrument is really designed for, modern day woofer in a conventional box is not likely to be able to reproduce below 30Hz to 1500Hz, or whatever the mid-high crossover pt. may be accurately.

I wish there were more good amps out there that are designed to just amplifier the low freq nicely, instead of the built-in one in the run-of-the-mill active subs . It's a waste to use a full audio power amp to just power the low-freq.

[avahifi]

The problem with trying to design a big power amplifier dedicated to just playing great high definition musical bass is that by the time you have resolved the engineering issues to do this, and build the amplifier with all the necessary high tech circuits to do this (such as the regulated output transistor power supplies as in the Fet Valve 400R and 600R) you will have almost automatically designed an amplifier that is great all the way from the very bottom to the very top.

To then just arbitrarily limit its frequency response to low frequencies would simply be a waste of performance.

Another observation:  I suspect that a lot of the perceived speaker problems with mid-range and upper low frequecy mud when asked to play deep bass is more the fault of the driving amplifier than the speaker itself.  Most amps simply play wide band low frequency mud and that ill defined signal makes the speakers struggle much more than necessary. If you don't have as good deep bass and mid base tonality and transparency as you want, probably blame your amplifier, not your speakers.

Frank Van Alstine

[coke]

What about the fmod from parts express?
 http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=266-270
 They have different versions.

Amps do make a big difference with bass though.  The bass from my HT2-TLs powered by an AVA Ultra+ Double 550 sounds more musical than my rythmik sub.  My speakers can't compete with the output of dedicated subs when watching movies, but they do great for 95% of the music I listen to.

 When I want more bass than my speakers can produce, I flip a couple switches, send the digital signal through my refurb marantz receiver ($350 ) and then I have control over high and low pass filters as well as the amount of bass from the sub.  Works very well and I still get to use my AVA amp.

[rcag_ils]

The problem with trying to design a big power amplifier dedicated to just playing great high definition musical bass is that by the time you have resolved the engineering issues to do this, and build the amplifier with all the necessary high tech circuits to do this (such as the regulated output transistor power supplies as in the Fet Valve 400R and 600R) you will have almost automatically designed an amplifier that is great all the way from the very bottom to the very top.

To then just arbitrarily limit its frequency response to low frequencies would simply be a waste of performance.

I see what you are saying, Frank. I've always thought that to build something to do less would cost less. Maybe that's why there are so many active subwoofers that come with a junky amp that can only make booming sound. Manufacturers like to cut cost, make junks and sell a lot of them.