[Gopher]

I've been using a Decware Torii 3 for a few months now to drive my Zu speakers and I really love it.  I'm using both of my sources direct and have plenty of gain--that isn't the concern, but I am curious about potentially matching a preamp with it that works well.

I love the core sound of the amp, but wouldn't mind a little more stage width and depth and just a smidgeon more emotion (not looking for slow, dully flabby sound).

I've tried several contenders to no avail--Shindo, Tubeguru, YS Audio, Dodd...  In all cases I've ultimately preferred the Decware naked.  I'm kicking my self for not biting on a Supratek at a great price, but I wonder if anyone can speak from experience matching this amp to a preamp...   My experience tells me it doesn't play well with others and is holding out for the right gal.

[wilsynet]

Isn't there's a volume pot on the Torii?  Whatever preamp you put in front of it is going to be colored (I use that word loosely) by the volume pot.  Or is there a direct set of bypass inputs?

[tomytoons]

Fred, you can bring this up on Decware's board too.
They are not just impartial to Decware products there.
Great bunch of people too.
I think Lon over there has a Torii if not mistaken.

[Berto]

I would talk to enough Tori 3 owners instead of throwing darts at what might work. 

You might be looking for the right gal and next thing ya know the Tori 3 is asexual

[Gopher]

Wilson,

According to Steve Deckert it is invisible with the pot fully open.  I imagine its passive, but I'm not positive.

T & Rob,

Yeah, that was my first move.  Its a great group of guys over there--really nice people, but they don't really have that much input on my inquiry at Decware's forum.  http://www.decware.com/cgi-bin/yabb22/YaBB.pl?num=1309964134

I get the feeling I've tried more preamps than most already.

[wilsynet]

I don't know how the pot can be invisible at full volume given that it's still present in the circuit, but of course, I'm not an EE.

Both of us have had a Shindo Aurieges (in fact, I had yours) and Dodd Buffer in our systems.  The Aurieges sacrifices transparency for tone and musicality (whatever that is) while the Dodd is ultra transparent with a sweet top end but (to my ears) a somewhat flabby low end.

Is it that you want "great tone, sweet highs, transparency and low end response"?

Wilson

[jhm731]

Why don't you try the Decware CSP2+?

You can return within 30 days if you don't like it.

[TONEPUB]

I'm using my Torii with an ARC REF 5 with excellent results.  No flabby bass at all.  Have you played with the bass control at all?  Also those driver tubes really seem to change the tonality.  I've got one pair (JJ's) that are a bit tighter in the bass region and a pair of chinese tubes that are a bit warmer.  I've also had great luck with the Burmester 011 (solid state) preamp.  My McIntosh C500 is a little too tubey with the Torii, so it is very preamp dependent.

Also, the regulator tubes change the sound as well.

The Torii can drive you crazy if you are OCD, because it gives you so many ways to change the sound.  I spent one solid day with mine after it was broken in and settled on two combinations I love and am enjoying the heck out of it.

[Gopher]

jhm731,

I bet its a nice piece, but I carry a prejudice against OTL sound after a few intellectually stimulating, but ultimately 'soul-less' experiences.  Maybe I need to get over it and give Deckert the benefit of the doubt... clearly he voiced the Torii to my tastes...

Tone,

I bet both of those solutions sound exquisite, and I know I didn't specify it above, but I was thinking more in the sub $3k range (used is fine/preferred).   The lower in the range the better.  In hindsight I probably should have just added the stepped attenuator and accepted the fact that I'll be using it as an integrated--I only have 2 crucial sources anyway...

Would any of the 'affordable' Chinese numbers (with remote) fill that very tough roll?  Something like a Doge 8 or Mysterees?

Yep, I've rolled a good bit with my Torii.  Right now I'm using National 7DJ8s, 1950s RCA 5u4gs, Black Treasure 6ca7s (also have JJ 6ca7s I'm not totally digging yet, but need burn in) and I switch between straight bottle 0a3s and OD3s.

[ncblue]

I have been waiting to give a full reportuntil everything is fully broken in, but I recently set up a new system. I have Zu Soul Superflys driven by a new Zen Tori mk3 and a new Modwright LS 100. Sources are a Rega P9 with Zu DL-103 into the Modwrights phono input (optional) and a Modwright Oppo BDP83 (solid state mods). The combo is incredibly fast and dynamic with great soul and swing (PRaT?) I am still dialing in the volume options. Right now I'm running the Decware with the gain at 2 o'clock. The vinyl is shockingly real, the best sound I have owned and I've had Naim, Audio Research, BAT and others. Blurays are great on the Oppo too. The sound is just fun. Very involving and just slows me to enjoy the music.
The Headphone output is great through my Grado GS1000s too.
The LS100 is definitely worth a listen. Dan is a great guy too.
Just my initial 2c.
Nat

[Gopher]

Wow.  Our systems are VERY similar!  I'm using Soul Superflys as well and just killed my Zu 103 cartridge the other day:  http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?anlgcart&1321450547&/Zu-DL-103-Grade-2

I was actually chatting with a buddy the other day--I think it was Berto and saying I suspect something like a Modwright might mate well based on what I've read.  I haven't really been completely bowled over by the MW stuff I have heard but I'm open to the suggestion.  Have you listened to your Torii with and without the Modwright?  What do you find the MW brings to the equation?

[ncblue]

They are both still breaking in, but the Modwright seems to add dynamics and a depth of sound. Voices have more body and texture, but it sounds very transparent. I'm not the biggest soundstage guy because I listen to blues and rock vinyl mostly, but it extends beyond the outside of the speakers and can startle me if I don't pay attention, spooky. I have only tried the Tori alone with digital since my phono Preamp is the Modwight. But the fantastic headphone out and remote are enough for me to be completely satisfied with the setup. The only thing I might upgrade is a step up transformer and some power conditioning/protection.

[Gopher]

I'm going to be giving the Audion Premiere with phono a whirl. The traits I've heard associated with Audion gear sounds like it would be an ideal match for the Decware, and the built in phono is a plus which potentially allows me to liquidate my phono setup (extra ICs, PCs, SUT and clutter).

I don't satisfy my goal of integrating a remote and it will actually be a PITA to change volume as I keep the hutch it will reside in 'child proof' but the potential is there.

[TONEPUB]

jhm731,

I bet its a nice piece, but I carry a prejudice against OTL sound after a few intellectually stimulating, but ultimately 'soul-less' experiences.  Maybe I need to get over it and give Deckert the benefit of the doubt... clearly he voiced the Torii to my tastes...

Tone,

I bet both of those solutions sound exquisite, and I know I didn't specify it above, but I was thinking more in the sub $3k range (used is fine/preferred).   The lower in the range the better.  In hindsight I probably should have just added the stepped attenuator and accepted the fact that I'll be using it as an integrated--I only have 2 crucial sources anyway...

Would any of the 'affordable' Chinese numbers (with remote) fill that very tough roll?  Something like a Doge 8 or Mysterees?

Yep, I've rolled a good bit with my Torii.  Right now I'm using National 7DJ8s, 1950s RCA 5u4gs, Black Treasure 6ca7s (also have JJ 6ca7s I'm not totally digging yet, but need burn in) and I switch between straight bottle 0a3s and OD3s.

Here's two great sub - $3000 options, the Klyne SK-5, which has a great phono stage and can be had for about $1000, and I just got my CJ PV-12 back from the factory with the full rebuild/CJD Teflon cap upgrade.  Also great phono stage and they are charging about $1200 for this.  You should be able to get a clean PV-12 for about $800, less if you don't need the phono stage.  As Lew Johnson told me, "concentrate on good cosmetics, even if it doesn't work, we've got to put it on the bench anyway."

I'm absolutely floored at how good the PV-12 is with the cap and power supply upgrade. (they remove the electrolytics and sub film caps there as well)  Where it used to be warm and syrupy, it still has great midrange, but now tons of extension top and bottom.

I'd suggest either of these options with the Torii.  I've been pretty excited about the combination!

[Gopher]

The Audion I just purchased seems to be a very good match.  I'm quite pleased with it as a line stage and as a bonus its phono section is excellent and I'm selling my separates and simplifying.

[ncblue]

Glad you found a good match, enjoy!