[jonwb]

How is it coming along guys?

[azryan]

It felt like no one seemed to care so I didn't keep posting.

I had some pics of it finished in while primer, and then in matte black, but I just emailed 'em to a friend instead of updating my webpage.

I meant to post to show people who might want to make one themselves, but when I posted pics and didn't really much response I felt like I was just posting to brag or something.
Didn't want that.

Danny's had the cabinet for a while now, and I told him I'm in no rush so when he gets to it he gets to it as far as I'm concerned.

Maybe if lots of people post that they're dying to see it you'll get him to finish it faster for me. hehe

[mcrespo71]

I'd be interested in seeing your website, AZRYAN.  Do you have a link?  Also, do you work for GR research or are you an enthusiast?

[azryan]

Not really what I'd call a 'website' so much as just plain 'ol webspace like we probably all have. Nothin' fancy or professional.

Just a place to throw up pics. (that coulda been worded better eh? heh)

You can still see the 'more center chan. pics...' thread on GR's forum here where I forst posted this same link.

http://home.earthlink.net/~azstrehlow/alphacenter1.html


And I don't work for GR in ANY way at all.

Funny, someone on a diff. forum recently said I work for GR too so I had to say "Uh... no I don't."

I NEVER thought I was giving the impression that I did. Have I?

Now I'm worried someone's been telling people that I do?

I have a habit of asking a lot of challenging questions to a certain 'other' speaker company -to which I often get the run-a-round, ignored, or insulted.

I can take it personally, but if people are trying to tie my posts to GR Research that would make me sick as Danny doesn't have ANYthing to do with what I choose to post about anything.


BTW... when looking into the GR Alphas I slammed Danny with a ton of challenging questions too. "Why it like this?" "Isn't this a problem?" "Why wouldn't doing this be better?"

stuff like that.

Funny thing was though.... he just answered them all.
Straightforward and with enough detail that I had few follow-up questions (thought he just answered those questions too), and it was clear to me he put FAR more thought into it than I had and removed any doubt I had about any aspect of his design.


He's not the only person who gives straight answers, but there's only one company IMO that seems to do far too much to avoid them.
I'll let you all take wild guesses.

It's HARD imo to know enough about all these great speakers out there, esp. online ones that people might never be able to hear before buying.

We all hear great things about so many of them, and I think most conclude that buying wildly marked-up stuff from stores just can't compare to the preformance/value ratio of so many online companies... but then how to choose between the online great deal companies?


For me it just seems logical to find out exactly what the details are of any speaker's design. Any specs, measurements, direct comparision opinions, x-over info, cabinet build, drivers, etc...


That all adds up to a lot of good info to make a judgement from IMO.

Sure 'hearing' the speaker is the best thing (still not the only thing though), but even if you can... it's still almost impossible to get several of these speakers in your own home at the same time to A/B/C 'em.


Danny's awesome IMO with how open he is with his info. And IMO shouldn't any speaker designer be?

People questioning you is really just a great chance to kinda brag about your awesome design I think, and put any doubts or 'what if's' to rest for others reading.

Sometimes a company uses publicly available parts and might want to keep details a secret so they don't get ripped off. I'd certainly understand if someone answered me in that way.

Some speakers companies use exclusive drivers and make wild claims they choose to not back up, and avoid what I think are easy questions seemingly at all costs.

I keep asking -not to piss people off, but feeling more like a reporter trying to dig up the truth -maybe for my own sake (I dig speakers is all), but I know there are others who like to find out the kind of stuff I dig up too.


I'm just a 'joe nobody' who built the Alpha kit, and was the first to build the Centurion center -based on the design info Danny posted to everyone here a couple months ago.

My neighbor WAS going to build the A/V3's with my help, but his wife (Kerrr-Ack!) said 'no'.

That's it. My whole story. hehe

[mcrespo71]

Azryan,

I was never sure if you were an enthusiast or worked for GR Research.  The first post in this thread made me more confused, so I figured I would ask.  Thanks for all the info.

Michael

[scooter]

I just thought it was with Danny since the last post and was waiting for Azryan to get it back to see what his listening impressions were, which Azryan confirmed.

I think it will be a very unique center especially since the sound will be sprayed a little more around the room, it will likely be far more enveloping than a normal center.

Still very interested in hearing Azryan's impressions of the center especially in light of the fact that he believed that no center was preferable. I for one am confident that the Alpha center will reverse his opinion.

I am also interested in Danny's surround effort. Since I have not moved house yet and can't really do anything until I do, it makes me a little more patient than normal.

[Danny Richie]

How is it coming along guys?

Soon. Very soon. I actually can't wait to get to it.

BTW... when looking into the GR Alphas I slammed Danny with a ton of challenging questions too. "Why it like this?" "Isn't this a problem?" "Why wouldn't doing this be better?"

Hey, I remember that.

He's not the only person who gives straight answers, but there's only one company IMO that seems to do far too much to avoid them.
I'll let you all take wild guesses.

You can vent here all you want, and I like it when you don't name names like you did.

So Ryan, you want a job?

Just kidding....

[mgalusha]

I'm still very interested. It's quite likely that I'll build one after Danny completes the design. Not that I don't have enough to keep me busy already.

mike g

[klh]

Hi,

I'm very intrigued by this speaker. What are you doing about phase alignment and how the sound waves interact?  It'll be interesting to find out how dialogue sounds and whether it is muddied or not? What about surround speakers? If it sounds good, I bet it could also be used for ambiance.

Keep us posted!

Krister

[azryan]

klh,

If it sounds muddied, I'm sure Danny wouldn't even send it to me, as that'd just be a failure of design. I don't see any reason why it would be that way though.


Danny,

"-Soon. Very soon. I actually can't wait to get to it.-"

Great!

Hey, I told Danny I wasn't going to rush him or bother him about it.. which means all of YOU have to do that for me!! hehehe

(kidding). If I piss him off he'll probably pack my cabinet with Bose cubes and tell me to choke on it. hehe


mgalusha,

"-I'm still very interested. It's quite likely that I'll build one after Danny completes the design.-"


For me the only hard part of building it without a premade plan was the shape of the top/bottom/divider sheets.

I built/glued the sectioned face, and then traced the line to cut for the top, bottom, divider.

I figure there's gotta be a better way than how I did it. Might take a real builder to look at how the best way to go about it.


Someone's probably gonna need table saw with this one too to get the precise angle cuts perfect. My circular saw was pretty tough to use, but I got by.

Building the Alphas took more time but was easier I think. All easy right angles.

Scooter,

"-I think it will be a very unique center especially since the sound will be sprayed a little more around the room, it will likely be far more enveloping than a normal center. -"

Yeah. I'm certainly wondering about this too.

I'm 'guessing' you'll mostly hear the section aimed at you.

Looking at it where it's gonna go in my room the 3rd Neo/woofer pair will aim right at my wife, and the 4th neo/woofer pair will aim directly at me. We're both sitting on the centered love seat next to eachother ~11' away from it.

The rest shouldn't hit a wall to bounce around till it's near the back of the room in my room. I think that'll be much lower db and further in time so it won't do anything to the main wave.

A 'guess' though.

"-Still very interested in hearing Azryan's impressions of the center especially in light of the fact that he believed that no center was preferable. I for one am confident that the Alpha center will reverse his opinion.-"

We'll see. I certainly don't have that feeling just 'cuz I don't have a center chan. or anything. I've owned a few and ahve heard a lot of 'em.

Now when these damn SACD/DVD-A's are maybe/maybe not downmixing the center chan info into the mains... now we've got a problem that only an actual center chan can fix.

I'll certainly be switching from phantom to center ON back and forth to test the diff between the two.

Right now I still have a touch of a room bump in the vocal range.
On music I never notice it on anything, but on movies there's a slight thickness to guys talking (or Meryl Streep hehe) on rare occation. Not all the time or anything.

I have a feeling the Centurion (you said that's the official name Danny. No take backs. hehe) will eliminate that, and using it mostly for movies that should work out great.

Just another guess though.

Hey.... my center is actually going to be a little closer to me than my mains.
In a perfect world I'd have them all at the same distance along the same curve, but as long as I set my processor's 'distance' correctly that should perfectly time delay the 'too close' center right???

Just want to double check I didn't miss or forgot something.

[scooter]

Now when these damn SACD/DVD-A's are maybe/maybe not downmixing the center chan info into the mains... now we've got a problem that only an actual center chan can fix.

"- ...

I have not got a SACD player yet, I have been waiting for a decent HDMI implementation on a universal player, still about 12 months away I think.

I have followed some of the reviews of SACD's though and the general consensus is that Dark Side of the Moon is an awesome mix, if you like Floyd then put it on your list.

With regards to the center my only concern was that it did not have the same driver complement so would not have quite the weight and ease that I assume a normal Alpha would play at, that is why at the beginning when it was being discussed I suggested doubling the drive complement, I think your comment was 'Holy CRAP! 10 neos and 10 woofers??? You serious scooter?'. At present I am still intending to use a normal Alpha for the center unless of course your review says that the Centurion is a winner blends perfectly.

I like you have heard many different center speakers and all have problems, they simply do not blend perfectly with the sides which normally always have more bass weight and depth and a different speaker configuration and cross over. All the problems IMO are completely eliminated by using an identical center speaker and in my experience it supplies a beautiful transparent wall of sound especially for movies but it applies equally for multi-channel sound.

Every demo room I go into they never have an identical center channel to the left right channels and whenever they play anything I can hear the difference. This makes it very distracting to actually watch a movie when you know the sound is incorrect, this is what I think you experience and why you find that no center is preferable and in this case I absolutely agree as I have the same problem.

The good thing for you is that if it is not perfect you can always buy a few extra drivers and build a normal Alpha with it then use that as the center. If you use a FP you can just use a sound transparent screen, which is what I use in my setup for the center and can highly recommend.

If you don't have a FP and are thinking of getting one beware, before I got my FP I listened mostly to music, now I watch about 70% movies and have over 400 DVD's. Yes the only thing worse for your financial situation than being an Audiophile is to get a FP and become a Videophile as well.

If you ever win the lottery there is also the Odyssee from D-Box (I don't have one but wish I did), by far the best movie accessory I have ever seen but at around $40k for the average setup you would hope so.

http://www.d-box.com/html_en.html

[azryan]

Huge Floyd fan. Dark Side is the one SACD I have. hehe

The scam on that one though is the CD, 2-chan. SACD, and 5.1 SACD versions are all diff.
The 5.1 is totally diff. from the other two beyond the surround sound of it. The surround sound is cool for most of it, but IMO just 'diff.' and not the definitive version -though it does sound great.

The CD layer S'Phile found to have like over 350 clipped samples. The 2-chan SACD layer -none. No reason for the CD player to be like that. Just lame.

"-With regards to the center my only concern was that it did not have the same driver complement so would not have quite the weight and ease that I assume a normal Alpha would play at-"

I'm figuring it'll be about the same-ish ~93db that the Alphas are.

One Neo 8 panel is 93db.
The woofers should be albe to be wired and crossed into this effi. too I'm thinking.

Devil is in the details Danny's not had a chance to get to I suppose though.

The Centurion's six 6" woofers isn't the same as nine in the Alphas, but it's still a LOT as they're all working as one. That should still be very effortless at any reasonable level.

Plus it's sealed and not going to be playing the bottom end which should make it all the more matching the mains.

"-At present I am still intending to use a normal Alpha for the center unless of course your review says that the Centurion is a winner blends perfectly. -

Hmm... I'm thinking that even if I do find it to blend seamlessly building a vertical matching Alpha would be better if you can get away with it.

I think you were talking an Alpha tipped horizontal though right?

Really... the flaw is the flat face making the output outside of it's ~5' long planar section dropped off.

"-I like you have heard many different center speakers and all have problems, they simply do not blend perfectly with the sides which normally always have more bass weight and depth and a different speaker configuration and cross over. All the problems IMO are completely eliminated by using an identical center speaker and in my experience it supplies a beautiful transparent wall of sound especially for movies but it applies equally for multi-channel sound.-"

I agree. I think the Centurion having the exact same drivers, x-over point (I'm guessing it will anyway), similar effi as the Alphas (maybe the same) and while not as large, is still very similar... that it should match/blend well.

The curved face taking care of the horizontal to vertical blend too.

Having the right place for the center makes a diff. too IMO.

I think we've heard the exact same type of set-ups, and whiel the mains usually have room to get placed just where they're best... a center chan. almost always just gets popped on top of a TV.

I almost always prefer the blend under the TV, and best yet like you mention -behind an acoustic screen at whatever exact height is 'perfect'.

"-The good thing for you is that if it is not perfect you can always buy a few extra drivers and build a normal Alpha with it then use that as the center.-"

hehe. I don't think I'd do that. In fact I'm 99% sure I wouldn't. If I don't find it to be what I want or can't make it work just right I'll probably sell it rather than gut it.

I figure someone else -like with an acoustic screen would make great use of it.
We'll see. I don't expect to be selling it at all.

I had a FP for a short time, but got a HD RPTV instead. I'm still thinking I'll have a FP again someday, but I can't see using it all the time for crap on TV, video games, etc... so I'll probably still have the RPTV in the room.

I always flip down a fat cloth over the plastic screen which listening to audio. Works real well.

That D-Box seems pretty wild too! I'm not into the 'buttshakers' a lot of HT guys seem to dig, but this it certainly a step up from that.

Peresonally I think having subs that can rattle your couch and crack your walls is good enough for me. hehe

[scooter]

I think you were talking an Alpha tipped horizontal though right?

quote]

No I was going to use it vertically behind a sound transparent screen. I am still attracted to the Centurion though because it will spray the sound and I think will add to the realism of the movie by providing a more enveloping sound.

By the way I use my projector for TV all the time gives an excellent image but we are on PAL over here so it is a lot higher resolution than NTSC on SD material and blows up well on a large screen, just as good as DVD. We have little HD material airing over here so there is not a lot of value in getting a HD projector yet, just as well as I can't afford one right now anyway.

if you do gaming wait for a reasonably priced 1080i LCOS machine. I have seen quite a few posts from gamers using DLP's regarding temporal dithering which has caused them problems on some games.

The Audiophile who put me onto the D-Box has one and in a post said he would downgrade his mains before letting go of the D-Box which is quite a statement. He actually has two theaters in his house and he just bought another D-Box for the second theater. He goes under the name Mr Poindexter on the AVS forum. Next HT show you go to have a look for them. I agree about the butt shakers they are not my cup of tea either, but 2g's of force and full motion now that would be something.

In my next sound room / theater I will be building an IB sub unit using 4 x 15" Stryke Audio AV15 MKII's. If that is inadequate I can up it to 8 drivers later on. I have heard di-pole subs and that was the best bass I have heard though it lacked a little in low extension, I'm going with an IB so that subs are not in the room and from what the IB forum says quality of bass is up there with a di-pole sub and go very very low.

[klh]

What is the internal volume of the Centurion?

[jacket_fan]

Danny wrote:

I believe he should be getting it tomorrow and then he will have to assemble it.

I'll leave the "how it turned out" up to him.

So, AZRYAN, have you gotten the center, and have you had a chance to mess with it?

[jonwb]

What is the internal volume of the Centurion?

Its pretty small volume wise.  I think sealed Danny recommended about .7 cu.ft.  With the number of drivers (6 sets) across the face the box ends up being less than a foot deep from what I recall (I'd have to look at my drawings again).  Man is it wide though...

[Danny Richie]

I talked to Ryan earlier today and he is in the middle of assembly now.

[jacket_fan]

I look forward to his comments as well as yours after he posts.

Mark

[azryan]

I'll be starting a new thread about this. This one got so sidetracked while I was waitng to get my cabinet back and the x-over and drivers.

I put it together just last night and already have a LOT to say. Stay tuned....

[wshuff]

Goody!  Any new pics?