[Peter J]

I need to  develop a plan of action, and just don't know where to start. My immediate desire is to digitize some of my old LPs. I know it's possible, but really am clueless about the process, and don't want to make a false step.

  I have an new/old Technics SL1800 turntable with a Stanton 681 EEE cartridge, an integrated amp with phono input and a extra computer that's got XP on it. What else do I need and how do I go about the process.

My long ranging goal would be to later put these and all CD's on a music server, which I'm also really unfamiliar with, but the concept of accessing all my music this way is intriguing.

I realize it's a pretty broad scope, so perhaps concetrate on the LPs for the moment. I'd appreciate any and all input.

[WC]

Does the integrated have a tape loop or a line out? You need to be able to get the audio signal out of the integrated.

You also will need to have an analog to digital converter to convert the analog signal into a digit al signal that the the computer can understand. The ADC can connect to the computer via USB, FireWire, or an internal PC card. If your going through the trouble, look for one that can do 24/96 or 24/192. Many of the inexpensive ADCs will only do 16/44, which is the same resolution as CDs.

[Chromisdesigns]

I'm currently doing what you are anticipating.  I bought an inexpensive USB analog-digital converter (ADC), the Behringer UF0202 to facilitate the process.  I am using Audacity to do the recording, de-click, volume normalization, etc. and saving album sides to WAV, followed by WAV to FLAC conversion with dbPoweramp music convertor.

I gave up on splitting tracks -- couldn't find a solution that wasn't a lot of work and effort in marking, splitting, and labeling the segments.  I always listened to LP sides anyway, so that's how I'm saving my music from the LP collection.  But Audacity will do it, if you are prepared to put in the work.

I couldn't get my XP machine to monitor the recording process through the sound card while using the UFO input, so I monitor with my desktop amp and speakers via the RCA line-level outputs from the Behringer.  Works fine.  You could do the same with your receiver.

BTW, the UFO includes a decent phono preamp integrated with the ADC, so you don't need to use your receiver preamp section.  I compared it with my old Audio Alchemy VAC-in-the-box phono preamp, and really can't tell the difference in the saved audio files.  Using the built-in phono preamp in the Behringer also gives you the advantabe of automatic level control in the recording phase of the process, which leaves headspace for processing after.  Once I do click-removal, then I use Audacity's "amplify" module to bring up the max level to 0 db in the final file.

SO far, it's working fine, I've done about 50 albums this way.

[Elizabeth]

I can remember folks thinking to archive Lps via reel to reel tape, so they could save the Lps from wear.
that idea lasted only so long, and perhaps a few folks did use them.
I would think the digitalizing LPs would be somewhat the same.
It is a lot of work to do. and will get boring pretty soon if the person does not have OCD!
I just play the LPs when i am in the mood. (or CDs...)

[Peter J]

Does the integrated have a tape loop or a line out? You need to be able to get the audio signal out of the integrated.

You also will need to have an analog to digital converter to convert the analog signal into a digit al signal that the the computer can understand. The ADC can connect to the computer via USB, FireWire, or an internal PC card. If your going through the trouble, look for one that can do 24/96 or 24/192. Many of the inexpensive ADCs will only do 16/44, which is the same resolution as CDs.

Yep, line outs and rec. loop so no problem there. Could you elaborate on what the higher sampling rate would be useful for? Do you have reccommendations on any in particular?

Thanks, Peter

[Peter J]

I can remember folks thinking to archive Lps via reel to reel tape, so they could save the Lps from wear.
that idea lasted only so long, and perhaps a few folks did use them.
I would think the digitalizing LPs would be somewhat the same.
It is a lot of work to do. and will get boring pretty soon if the person does not have OCD!
I just play the LPs when i am in the mood. (or CDs...)

I may have been one of those people! I suppose I see the work as a one time thing and probably have just enough OCD to give it a go. Also not a huge collection of LPs to do. I've lost interest in much of the music of my ill spent youth , but could never bring myself to get rid of any music...

I don't have the TT set up permanantly...curious grandkids fingerpoken is a concern.  At this stage of the game, the novelty (for me) of LP use gives way to convenience.  At some point I'd like to control all music via a tablet and server.

[Peter J]

I'm currently doing what you are anticipating.  I bought an inexpensive USB analog-digital converter (ADC), the Behringer UF0202 to facilitate the process.  I am using Audacity to do the recording, de-click, volume normalization, etc. and saving album sides to WAV, followed by WAV to FLAC conversion with dbPoweramp music convertor.

I gave up on splitting tracks -- couldn't find a solution that wasn't a lot of work and effort in marking, splitting, and labeling the segments.  I always listened to LP sides anyway, so that's how I'm saving my music from the LP collection.  But Audacity will do it, if you are prepared to put in the work.

I couldn't get my XP machine to monitor the recording process through the sound card while using the UFO input, so I monitor with my desktop amp and speakers via the RCA line-level outputs from the Behringer.  Works fine.  You could do the same with your receiver.

BTW, the UFO includes a decent phono preamp integrated with the ADC, so you don't need to use your receiver preamp section.  I compared it with my old Audio Alchemy VAC-in-the-box phono preamp, and really can't tell the difference in the saved audio files.  Using the built-in phono preamp in the Behringer also gives you the advantabe of automatic level control in the recording phase of the process, which leaves headspace for processing after.  Once I do click-removal, then I use Audacity's "amplify" module to bring up the max level to 0 db in the final file.

SO far, it's working fine, I've done about 50 albums this way.

Thanks, did you consider any other ADCs or recording software?

[firedog]

I archived about 50 LPs (and track split, tagged etc) in the past. Basically for LPs I liked and couldn't find on digital. Was well worth it. The sound quality is very good, and I now have the convenience of having all those tracks on my music server.

If I was going to do it again today, I'd get this: http://www.furutech.com/a2008/product2.asp?prodNo=374 ($495).

It's perfect for the task, has good sound, and you end up with an ADC/DAC/phono preamp/headphone amp  in case you need any of those. Not "state of the art", but good enough for everyone except those with multiple 5 figure systems.

For track splitting, you could try "SpinItAgain" - software designed for LP recording. It does a good job on records with distinct tracks. Like all such software it has problems with classical music or anything written as a suite.

[Vincent Kars]

A lot of debates about bit depth and sample rate can be found on many audio forums.
According to Shannon-Nyquist your sample rate should be the double of the highest frequency. Vinyl can contain signals up to 25 kHz (but higher values are reported) so 44.1 kHz (Nyquist=22) is probably a bit at the low site.
When doing the AD conversion any signal in excess of half the sample rate generates an error.
The input should therefore be band limited.
Low sample rates like 44.1 kHz forces you to use the same steep filtering (brick wall) as in the first generation CD players.
Higher sample rates allow to use a smoother filter.

Vinyl can have a dynamic range of 70 dB (but often limited to 50 dB) so 70/6=12 bits should do. But you need some headroom and in case of post-processing it is beneficial to have a 24 bit format.

Ripping vinyl is a hell of a lot of work.
Even if 24/88 is overkill I rather would go for the overkill.

[Peter J]

Thanks everybody, this is the kind of info I was looking for. Had no idea about the sampling as it applies to vinyl.

 Google produces limitless info on any given subject, so specific product reccomendations and personal experiences from actual users is especially appreciated. Ultimately I like to know the subject matter well, but don't have interest in protracted theoretical debates, which sometimes seems to be the order of the day on forums. My desire is to get the task-at-hand done in a way that I'll never look back and think; cudda, wudda, shudda...

As I think about it, the term archiving may be a bit of a misnomer in my case. The stuff I want to record is mostly mill-run LPs, not neccessarily musical milestones. But some is still relevent for me and I just like the idea of an occasional dose of nostalgia that would be more accessable.

[Scott F.]

One thing everybody is forgetting about is the plain old standalone CD recorder. Sure, they are a bit outdated but they really solve the issues of Cue points when recording vinyl.

On eBay you can pick up a used Philips/Marantz/Tascam CD recorder for under $100. If you want to pop for a new one, they are in the $300-$500 range. The new ones accept the cheap CD/RW discs unlike the old ones (like Philips I have) that only take the Music CDRs which are more pricey.
http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=cd+recorder&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=

Fostex has a cool unit that has a solid state drive and SD card slots. It records in 24/96 native (not upsampled) that allows manual Cue points but it's about $1k.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/fostex-ur2-stereo-rack-recorder/501675000000000

Since you are recording stuff that sounds like it's more nostalgic than for critical listening, I'd bet a simple standalone CD recorder would work just fine for your needs. Sure, you'd still need to rip the CDs to FLAC (or your favorite format) but that goes fairly quick. On the Philips unit I have, I can set a Cue point (pause between songs) with the remote. I don't have to tend the recorder continually. It's actually quite easy and the sonic results are more than acceptable. I've used mine to digitize some of 'one hit wonder' and obscure classic rock songs, plus stuff that will never show up on CD.

Just a thought.

[bondmanp]

A couple of comments.  I have been using stand alone CD recorders for about 7 years now.  The goal has always been digitizing various analog sources (cassettes, VHS, vinyl) for archiving and use in the car.  I still spin vinyl for serious listening.

I have had a Marantz pro-sumer unit for about 5 yrs., the CDR-632.  Makes recordings good enough for the car, and so far, acceptable for ripping to a server.  I must monitor the LP being recorded and manually insert the track divisions on the fly.  Yes, it is a PITA.  Yes, I have made mistakes.  You can either record to CD-RW and redo your messed up divisions, live with them, or load the finished CD-R into a PC for editing with appropriate sofware.  I usually just live with the results as is.  I do preview a side's track endings to prepare myself for closely spaced tracks, abrupt endings, false endings, or fades.  The good news is that the pro-sumer machines use any CD-R/RW media, not just Music CD-R-RWs. 

Nobody has mentioned preparation of the LP and turntable.  Since you want to get it right the first time, make sure your stylus is cleaned before each LP side.  I use Magic Erasure (from J&J in the cleaner isle of the supermarket).  For LP cleaning, many prefer vacuum machines.  I use the KAB EV-1, from KABUSA.com.  It is the cheapest vacuum machine out there.  It is fully manual and you supply a canister vacuum, but it worls as well as the high-priced vacuum cleaners, IME.

One note:  I recently upgraded to an Oppo BD-93 universal player.  It seems to have a problem reading the CD-Rs (usually Taiyo-Yuden) burned on my Marantz.  It will skip portions of tracks.  The CD-Rs play fine in the car, played fine in my older Rotel CDP, rip fine on my Vortexbox, and of course, play fine in the Marantz recorder.  Not sure what I will do about this yet.