Bought my first tube amp, Jolida FX10.........

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TKonrad.NOLA

Bought my first tube amp, Jolida FX10.........
« on: 18 Jul 2011, 10:45 pm »
and I am liking the sound.  However, I realize that this is only a $450 amp so I am sure there are others that do the job better, but I would like to know what I would gain by upgrading.  I've heard things about tubes lacking in bass but to be honest I've rarely noticed it and in those cases where I did, chalked it up to the recording.

Are there any tutorials online about tube amps?  I have to admit I am at a total loss when you guys start talking about 300B, SET, EL84, triode, et al.

I'm a newbie, any assistance will be greatly appreciated. 

I am using Tekton Lore 98db @1w 8 Ohms

hibuckhobby

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Re: Bought my first tube amp, Jolida FX10.........
« Reply #1 on: 18 Jul 2011, 11:54 pm »
I have one too...driving my Altecs.  Nothing wrong with the bass on that little amp.  It's a pair of el84's perside btw.

eclein

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Re: Bought my first tube amp, Jolida FX10.........
« Reply #2 on: 19 Jul 2011, 12:01 am »
Congrats!!!  I recently got my first also and asked the same question, folks here will help you. Jolida is a good brand and gets recommended a lot on here so you got a great start. SET is a type of amp the rest are all tube sizes and have distinctive sound signatures or whatever you'd like to call them. When I started Tube rolling-changing make and type tube and swapping them in place of the stock tubes and talked to a lot of tube vendors if you know the size (usually a number and letter combination) and your amp chances are they will know exactly what you need... Have Fun!!!!!

bladesmith

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Re: Bought my first tube amp, Jolida FX10.........
« Reply #3 on: 19 Jul 2011, 02:00 pm »
You will have no problem getting the kind of sound you want..They make plenty of bass..

Just match your speakers with your amp..

(My Jolida sounds better now then when I first got it, took longer than I thought to got to break it in.)

Good luck and enjoy...


sebrof

Re: Bought my first tube amp, Jolida FX10.........
« Reply #4 on: 19 Jul 2011, 07:01 pm »
Are there any tutorials online about tube amps?  I have to admit I am at a total loss when you guys start talking about 300B, SET, EL84, triode, et al.

I'm a newbie, any assistance will be greatly appreciated. 

I am using Tekton Lore 98db @1w 8 Ohms

Digital Dude - I am real happy you are enjoying the Lores, they are a very good speaker.
Tube amps come in all shapes and sizes, but there are some pretty sizable categories they can be lumped into.
 - SET - Single Ended Triode. Triode because the tube has 3 elements (cathode, grid, plate). Single Ended because there is a single output tube per channel (in most cases, let's ignore parallel for now). Each tube amplifies the entire musical waveform for its channel.
Triodes include 45s, 2A3s, 300Bs, and many other tube types.
Any tube type can be configured in an amp as Single Ended, i.e.: Pentodes would be SEP, etc.
Usually put out ~1 watt for a 45, ~ 4 watts for a 2A3, ~ 8 watts for 300b, and more power for 845s, 211s, and others.
Desirable because they are simple circuits and so can pass on the music with all the nuance and emotion. IOW - They don't goober up the music.
Undesirable because they are usually low power and need efficient speakers.

 - Push Pull - Usually pentodes (EL34, EL84, KT88, 6550, many many others, and many similar tubes with multiple designators; EL34 = 6CA7(?), etc. etc.). Pentodes because they have 5 elements (wiki is your friend). Push Pull because there are multiple tubes per channel in pairs, each tube or pair of tubes amplifying either the positive or negative portion of the musical waveform for its channel.
Usually put out ~40 watts for a pair of EL34s per channel, 200 watts for 8 KT88s per channel in my friend's monster amps/space heaters, and everything in between.
Most tube amps are PP. Your Jolida is PP EL84.
Desirable because they are higher power than SETs.

Google, Wiki, and also the tube sellers (tubestore.com) will give info on the pieces of the puzzle.

I use a 2A3 SET to drive my Lores, and at 4 watts in a small room it's very nice for me. This is because the Lores are very efficient speakers so don't need a lot of power. An EL84 PP like your FX11 would also be very nice; I'd gain some things and lose other things as far as the musical presentation.

Hope this helps. Enjoy your amp!

TKonrad.NOLA

Re: Bought my first tube amp, Jolida FX10.........
« Reply #5 on: 19 Jul 2011, 08:36 pm »
Sebrof,  you wiki much better than I do.  I searched before posting and all I came up with was an article on "tube sound" and another on "valve amplifiers."  Thanks for taking the time to explain things to me.  I have never had sound like this and being that I have had some great speakers before, I have to assume it is the tubes.  Consider me a fan.

InfernoSTi

Re: Bought my first tube amp, Jolida FX10.........
« Reply #6 on: 29 Jul 2011, 04:01 am »
My first tube amp was the JoLida FX10, too!  I still have it, too, which tells you something about that little push-pull amp.  I kind of went crazy with small tube amps after the FX10, buying a Glow One amp and an original MiniWatt amp.  Then I built my first tube amp kit, a SPUD amp using an inexpensive 6CL6 tube.  Then I built my current main amp, a 2A3 Bottlehead Steromour amp.  I tell you this to warn you, once you start down this path, there are a never ending set of choices and then you get into tube rolling, tweaking capacitors, etc.  Never mind the upgrades to match your speakers to your amps!!!

Tube amps are so much fun, and it sounds like you are interested in learning some of the theory as it relates to different types of tube amps (push-pull vs. single end triode, OTL, etc).  I found that there is a difference in the sound between every single tube amp I've owned (five).  They just have their own signature sound. 

This sound can come from the tube itself, the "iron" that the amp uses (transformers), or the type of architecture of the amp (P-P vs SET vs OTL).  Each has their own followers and the true believers must be taken with a grain of salt.  However, my Bottlehead 2A3 amp, with upgraded capacitors (Mundorf Silver In Oil) sounds the best.  Of course, it has the best "iron" and the most expensive tubes.  Go figure...

I would recommend reading this set of papers on the design of tube amps if you are so inclined.  They will teach you a lot in a very short time frame.   

Article 1 (Vaughn Audio)
http://www.hawthorneaudio.com/photos/albums/userpics/11473/SE-v-PP-Part1.pdf

Article 2 (Vaughn Audio)
http://www.hawthorneaudio.com/photos/albums/userpics/11473/SE-v-PP-Part2.pdf

And I would Google "tube amp harmonics" and read what you find on even order vs. odd order harmonics (example included, below).  Really...

Have fun and enjoy your Jolida FX10....it is a great little amp and well worth the price!

John

Quote
SIGNIFICANCE OF MUSICAL HARMONICS

Having divided amplifiers into three groups of distortion characteristics,the next step is to determine how the harmonics relate to hearing. There is a close parallel here between electronic distortion and musical tone coloration that is the real key to why tubes and transistors sound different. Perhaps the most knowledgeable authorities in this area are the craftsmen who build organs and musical instruments [8] [9]. Through many years of careful experimentation these artisans have determined how various harmonics relate to the coloration of an instrument's tonal quality.

The primary color characteristic of an instrument is determined by the strength of the first few harmonics. Each of the lower harmonics produces its own characteristic effect when it is dominant or it can modify the effect of another dominant harmonic if it is prominent. In the simplest classification, the lower harmonics are divided into two tonal groups. The odd harmonics (third and fifth) produce a "stopped" or "covered" sound. The even harmonics (second, fourth, and sixth) produce "choral" or "singing"sounds.

The second and third harmonics are the most important from the viewpoint of the electronic distortion graphs in the previous section. Musically the second is an octave above the fundamental and is almost inaudible; yet it adds body to the sound, making it fuller. The third is termed a quint or musical twelfth. It produces a sound many musicians refer to as"blanketed." Instead of making the tone fuller, a strong third actually makes the tone softer. Adding a fifth to a strong third gives the sound a metallic quality that gets annoying in character as its amplitude increases. A strong second with a strong third tends to open the "covered"effect. Adding the fourth and the fifth to this changes the sound to an"open horn" like character.

The higher harmonics, above the seventh, give the tone "edge" or "bite."Provided the edge is balanced to the basic musical tone, it tends to reinforce the fundamental, giving the sound a sharp attack quality. Many of the edge harmonics are musically unrelated pitches such as the seventh,ninth, and eleventh. Therefore. too much edge can produce a raspy dissonant quality. Since the ear seems very sensitive to the edge harmonics,controlling their amplitude is of paramount importance. The previously mentioned study of the trumpet tone [6] shows that the edge effect is directly related to the loudness of the tone. Playing the same trumpet note loud or soft makes little difference in the amplitude of the fundamental and the lower harmonics. However. harmonics above the sixth increase and decrease in amplitude in a1most direct proportion to the loudness. This edge balance is a critically important loudness signal for the human ear.