[tjhendry]

I've made a few adjustments to my system, hoping to get the best out of my SongBirds.  It took many hours for the "break-in".  Maybe the Mundorf caps needed some extra time.  Though the imaging was amazing, the mid-range beautiful, and the top-end delicately well defined...I decided that my tube amps were not up to the task of taming the bottom end.  In came a hybrid integrated amp from LSA with 150 watts/side.  Things got even nicer.  The low end is amazing for such a small speaker.  I rolled a lot of tubes before I ended up with NOS Telefunkens 12AX7s in my Jolida CDP and  new "Gold Lion" 6922 in the amp.  The Songbirds could now charm an emperor.

The other night I decided to try another tweak.  I placed the speakers on maple blocks and gave a listen.  I was amazed at the improved focus and impact in the bass.  Every "demo" CD sounded better.  Moving the speakers off the blocks  reversed the change.  I'm guessing that the carpet in my room has hindered the SongBirds.  The bullet shaped feet had never reached the solid base they needed.  So now I'm looking at replacing the silver bullets with spikes.  The most interesting option involves an "outrigger" that would not only penetrate to the wooden floor..they would also prove a wider, more stable base.

Does anyone have experience with "outrigger"?  Or experience/thoughts re. spikes vs Bullets?

Right now my speakers are back on their maple perches and I am loving their song while waiting to hear from y'all.

[nyc_paramedic]

Maybe have someone like Sound Anchors make a custom base for you? Links:

 http://www.soundanchors.com/page3.html
http://www.soundanchors.com/page54.html

This might lower the tweeter height, so take your listening chair into consideration when attempting this project.

[Elizabeth]

The speakers i owned prior to this Spring (when i bought Magnepan 3.6s) were B&W 805s on B&W stands,. The B&W stands have adjustable spikes. I definitely noticed that the image and lower frequencies were enhanced when the spikes were solidly into the floor under the carpet.. Especially if the spikes were well balanced. That is all four had equal pressure.
When i was moving them around i would notice the sound would not be it's best unless i compensated for the irregularities in the floor VS spike height. So I had to adjust the spikes slightly for each move, AND reset them into the floor by pressing down with my whole weight on each corner of the stand to pop the (thin) spikes through the carpet and pad to make solid contact with the flooring underneath. So cone shaped spikes would not have worked, as they would not make contact with the solid floor under the carpet and pad.
Hope this is of help.

[highfilter]

There's also Herbie's Audio Lab speaker feet products to consider. I'll be using some of the Giant Cone/Spike Decoupling Gliders for my Salk SoundScapes. They protect floors and provide solid isolation as well. http://herbiesaudiolab.net/spkrfeet.htm

[Don_S]

I have experience with spikes on two different speakers. In both cases the factory spikes did not penetrate the carpet and pad.  When I replaced the factory spikes with cheap spikes that penetrated all the way to the concrete slab there was an improvement in all aspects of the music. I emphasize the word cheap because even the cheapest spikes I could find (that were long enough) made a significant improvement.

I highly recommend trying longer spikes.  Another reason I chose the less expensive spikes is they are thinner and I felt there would be minimal damage to the carpet.  The fat spikes scare me. Seems like they would tear the carpet backing instead of just poking through. If anyone has experience with that I would appreciate hearing it.

[mhconley]

Cheap spikes and the outriggers I use.  (Not on Salks; just thought I could add to the thread.)

The 2.15" spikes will pierce through the thickest carpet and couple right to the subfloor.

Martin

[Don_S]

Martin,  Those are insanely expensive. I just use the bottom half. 

https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=404_121&products_id=1047

Cheap spikes and the outriggers I use.  (Not on Salks; just thought I could add to the thread.)

The 2.15" spikes will pierce through the thickest carpet and couple right to the subfloor.

Martin

[tjhendry]

Thanks to all who have shared thought about spikes.  I am convinced that spikes do make a difference. Before the Songbirds I had a 35 years with British speakers ..Spendor BC3, Tannoy Devon, TDL Studio3.  The Brits have encouraged spikes since the 70s.  When I got the Spendors I had some custom stands made w/o spikes in deference to my hardwood floors.  Eventually I used some Fat Dots from Herbie's as a speaker/stand interface. Later the Tannoys used the same stands.  Even though I had moved and now had a room with carpets I never retrofit the stands with spikes. The TDLs came with a spiked steel cradle. The Studio3 is a transmission-line speaker...MTM design like the SongTowers, but bigger. After finding the sweet location for them I inserted the spikes and enjoyed the obvious improvement. Because the cradle was only about 2 inches tall it was easy to adjust the four spikes.   

Now I have the SongBirds which have proved to be a better match for my room's size.  I love them and feel that, like the TDLs, they will  sound even better with toes directly on the floorboards.  The problem I see is that adjusting four spikes screwed into the plinth might prove difficult.  Three spikes seems to be an option, but stability will be a concern.  The outriggers with four spikes have a wider stance for greater stability and they are more easily adjusted.  For anyone unfamiliar with outriggers here is a link

http://www.soundocity.com/Gallery.html

I looked at the Sound Anchors site.  They were the go-to designs for the classic Spendors and current Harbeths.  One of their designs for floorstanders might work.  I'll write to them.

So, are there any further thoughts out there about three-toed columns or outriggers?
Thanks again.

[srb]

As you know, 3 legs always gives stable contact with each leg, and it's a very good configuration for electronic components.  But for floorstanding speakers or monitor stands where the height is much greater than the base, 4 feet are better, and outriggers even better.
 
Whenever you see a nice stable tripod, like a photographic or surveying tripod, the base is very wide.  The tripod configuration just doesn't work as well with the small bases or plinths of tall speakers.
 
Steve

[mhconley]

Martin,  Those are insanely expensive. I just use the bottom half. 

https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=404_121&products_id=1047

I never thought about using just the insert; they are pretty tiny.  And yes, they are insanely expensive, especially considering that the manufacturer sells the ones I linked for $2.02 in gold and $1.90 in black chrome.  Of course they have a $3,000.00 minimum order. 

Martin

[tjhendry]

I'm not sure this will be my final remedy, but I've decided to replace the bullet-feet with carpet-piercing spikes.  The outriggers are an appealing option because of the added stability, but I think the spikes will reduce the rockability of the Songbirds-on-carpet.

Researching (actually just Googling) the effects of spikes was interesting!  Half of the experts seem to think they "couple" speaker and floor.  The other half are of the opinion the they "isolate" the speaker.  Maybe it's just semantics and not physics.  The SongBirds and SongTowers are even more confusing to me because of the plinth/cabinet interface.  Is the "gap" design simply for aesthetics or for sonics? 

Since I found that the speakers sounded better when placed on wood platforms, maybe I don't really want spikes.  The heavy platforms simply rested on the carpet, minimizing the "coupling" with the subfloor.  The more focused bass may have resulted from eliminating a muddiness transmitted by the sheets of plywood beneath the carpet that I am planning to contact.  I'll have some more listening to do.

[Woolz]

Another possibility is to spike the wood platforms to the floor and use the supplied spikes between the speakers and platform.  Or you could spike the platforms to the floor and use a piece of felt between the speaker and the platform.  The latter is what is suggested by Lou at Daedalus.

[tjhendry]

Woolz-
Thanks for info.  I found the Daedalus thread.  It's right on topic. And Lou makes some nice looking speakers, though Ulysses would need a much bigger home than I could provide!
A set of spikes arrived today.  I'll try them on speaker first...then on the platforms.

[charmerci]

Quite simple actually - Van Alstine said it decades ago. Use spikes if your floor is solid. Isolate them if you have a wooden floor, i.e. the speakers send vibrations to the floor and cause it to make noise.

[jaqlene]

The carpets are much safer to use with the spikes if they have enough thickness as compared to wooden flooring because it got scratched easily and need to get refurnished. In my home I have home theater system with speakers having spikes beneath them and I have to get my wooden flooring get repaired from http://www.woodsmithhardwood.ca/servicepost/hardwood-floor-stain/