[texendo]

I have the Isabella LFP-V with USB dac.  Can I use this as a DAC only into another pre so long as the gain toggle is set to zero?  No electrical engineer here, and I don't want to damage anything.  Thanks in advance!

[Sam-fi]

I think that would be fine - select the 0db gain setting and crank the volume pot all the way up. Be sure once you have it plugged in to start the other preamp on zero volume.
 The nice thing is that now you basically have a high-quailty  variable output strength from your cdp or source!

Just a question though, why would you not want to use the Isabella as a preamp!? It is a stellar linestage.

Sam

[texendo]

The Isabella (LFP-V) is a stellar pre, as is the on board USB DAC.  I just picked up a Shindo Monbrison that arrives this weekend.  The winner of the shootout stays, and the other must go.  The Isabella DAC will provide the digital source for both.

[Sam-fi]

Interesting. Well have fun. I always love those "new gear" shootouts.

One thing to consider is synergy between source (dac) and preamp.


Sam

[cfcjb]

The Isabella (LFP-V) is a stellar pre, as is the on board USB DAC.  I just picked up a Shindo Monbrison that arrives this weekend.  The winner of the shootout stays, and the other must go.  The Isabella DAC will provide the digital source for both.

I'll be interested in hearing your views on Shindo V Red Wine. Do you have Shindo interconnects?
You'd do well to get a pair and run them from the Monbrison to your amp. As you probably know, Shindo excels when you have it in its own system. It should still be great, but supposedly the magic really starts when you pair it with its own  products.
I have a Shindo linestage running into my RW 70.2s. It's a wonderful pre.

[texendo]

I actually have Auditorium 23 ICs and speaker cables, the "B" choice for interconnects I suppose.  I'm glad to hear you're having a good experience running the Shindo into Redwine 70.2s, same as me.  My tracking info just got updated to Monday delivery after the weekend (dammit), but will let you know.

[Vinnie R.]

I have the Isabella LFP-V with USB dac.  Can I use this as a DAC only into another pre so long as the gain toggle is set to zero?  No electrical engineer here, and I don't want to damage anything.  Thanks in advance!

Hi Texendo,

You could do it - you would set the gain to zero (low gain) and set the volume control to max, and feed the preamp output to the other preamp and control the volume from the other preamp.

When listening to the Isabella/dac combo during the comparison, I would remove the interconnects that feed to the Shindo. 

The Isabella and Monbrison have different gains (I believe the Shindo is 16dB), so level-matching comes into play when making comparisons.  The Isabella can be set to 12dB (plenty of gain), but the volume control setting of each linestage are going to be different to achieve the same SPL level from your speakers.

Keep us posted!

Vinnie

[texendo]

Sorry it took so long to respond. Long story short, I decided to hold on to the RedWine Isabella and let the previous owner have back the Monbrison.

Upon immediate listen, the Shindo Monbrison had a larger soundstage, more bass kick, and possibly a more seductive midrange (and a low level of sibilance that was only apparent when directly compared to the RedWine). Upon longer listening sessions however, my ears preferred the non-fatiguing smooth sound of the RedWine and its batteries. It must also be noted that the Isabella had the advantage of system synergy in an all Red Wine system, and Shindo reportedly likes to be surrounded by Shindo gear. As an aside, I've decided to try a pair of boutique NOS tubes for the Isabella as I feel that could make a better improvement on my gear after hearing some in the Shindo.

In conclusion, both pieces of gear sound exceptional to my ears, and I would love to own both. At this point, I cannot, and I had to make a decision one way or the other. At this level, I think it's definitely different strokes for different folks. I tend to listen to my rig intently during longer periods to relax. Who knows, a year from know my preferences may have changed, but for now I'm a RedWine guy : )

[cfcjb]

Texendo,
thanks for the feedback. I find it interesting that you were feeling like you were getting listener fatigue through the Shindo. I guess different ears hear things differently.
What is your digital source by the way?

[Vinnie R.]

Hi Texendo,

Thanks for your post.

As an aside, I've decided to try a pair of boutique NOS tubes for the Isabella as I feel that could make a better improvement on my gear after hearing some in the Shindo.

Please keep us posted on this - which tubes?  With tube rolling, you can easily obtain more seductive midrange, bigger soundstage, and "kick" to the sound.  There are so many to play with, and the same goes for your 70.2 LFP-V Editions.

This post has me curious, as I never heard these:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=92526.0

I need to check this out and see if they would fit in the Isabella (two tubes next to each other), but for the LFP-V tube stage buffer in the other RWA products, the fit is fine. 

Thanks again for your feedback - and glad you are a Red Wine kinda guy 

Happy listening,

Vinnie

[texendo]

cfcjb:

I was surprised as well, but to be clear, fatigue is never a word I would have used to describe the Shindo until it was put right next to the Redwine in battery mode.  It was as though I could feel my ears literally relax.  I have been listening to RedWine batteries for years now, so I've grown accustomed to the sound.  I think it probably even takes time to allow ones ears to "relax" enough to be able to enjoy such nuance if you've been listening to something noisier. 


Vinnie:

I'm currently using the Genalex Gold Lions all around, but those EATs have my curiosity.

[cfcjb]

Hey Texendo,
audio is so subjective and great sound is truly in the ears of the beholder.
I've no doubt that Vinnie's Pre is great, and given that you have a history of listening to his products, I fully understand why you would prefer that sound.
Given that you have to plug the Shindo in to the grid to play, I wonder about the quality of the electricity in your area. Regardless, you didn't tell me what your source (analog or digital) was. Could you?

[texendo]

Source was the Isabella DAC with USB, which is what started this thread to begin with.  I also listen to vinyl, but I didn't use the same phono on comparisons.  Currently I use a tweaked Bottlehead Eros Phono I built a while back.  For the outlay, I was underimpressed with the phono stage in the Monbrison.  I run a wooded Denon 103R on my Rega P5 into an Auditorium 23 step up with Auditorium 23 ICs.

As to your comment about how clean the electricity is in my area (central Austin), that's kinda the whole point.  The power grid is never clean, unless maybe you're the sole user of a solar array with no other electrical devices (in which case you'd probably still actually be working off of batteries   ).  It changes from hour to hour, season to season.  You can always spend more on better power cables, outlets, dedicated lines, deep exterior grounding, conditioners, etc...   or just use high grade batteries and get the same thing everytime.  I've been down that road before; I would always be shocked at how much better things sounded at midnight in my (then) small town (Minot, ND) after most users were off the power grid.  That continues to be the biggest draw for me to Vinnie's products.  That and the ensuing simplicity of circuit design which allows for greater transparency. 

But you are absolutely correct that the experience is within the mind/ears of the beholder.  As much as I love to read and contribute to these websites (that's mostly what got me into all this), it's kinduva pointless endeavor that accomplishes little.  That's why I got both of them in my living room and listened to them for myself.

[cfcjb]

Source was the Isabella DAC with USB, which is what started this thread to begin with.  I also listen to vinyl, but I didn't use the same phono on comparisons.  Currently I use a tweaked Bottlehead Eros Phono I built a while back.  For the outlay, I was underimpressed with the phono stage in the Monbrison.  I run a wooded Denon 103R on my Rega P5 into an Auditorium 23 step up with Auditorium 23 ICs.

As to your comment about how clean the electricity is in my area (central Austin), that's kinda the whole point.  The power grid is never clean, unless maybe you're the sole user of a solar array with no other electrical devices (in which case you'd probably still actually be working off of batteries   ).  It changes from hour to hour, season to season.  You can always spend more on better power cables, outlets, dedicated lines, deep exterior grounding, conditioners, etc...   or just use high grade batteries and get the same thing everytime.  I've been down that road before; I would always be shocked at how much better things sounded at midnight in my (then) small town (Minot, ND) after most users were off the power grid.  That continues to be the biggest draw for me to Vinnie's products.  That and the ensuing simplicity of circuit design which allows for greater transparency. 

But you are absolutely correct that the experience is within the mind/ears of the beholder.  As much as I love to read and contribute to these websites (that's mostly what got me into all this), it's kinduva pointless endeavor that accomplishes little.  That's why I got both of them in my living room and listened to them for myself.

Texendo (ah, now I get it - hey Tex ), thanks for that.
Yeah, electricity is a huge (generally bad) variable. I live in Sydney, Australia now and the power here is pretty good. I have loved my Sig 70s and upgraded Sig 70.2s but I do see a time (probably soon) when the time will have come for me to move on to something else.

I have to respectfully say that I don't think something is quite right with your system or possibly the Monbrison if in your set up the Phono stage does not float your boat. Shindo is nothing if not famous for being able to make analog sing.
In the many review's I've read of Vinnie's pre and dac they are lauded for their organic warmth but supposedly come up short when it comes to dynamics and frequency extension. That's why I'm thinking that something in your system needs to be tamed and Vinnie's Pre is doing a better job of that, while the Shindo pre is exposing the problem.

Anyway, there are so many variables I could be totally wrong.

J.

[texendo]

: )

Once again, the Monbrison was a beautiful piece of equipment which I'd be more than happy to live with.  I hope I've been clear about that in my comments.  Everyone wants to know "which is better?" when such an answer simply does not exist.  But when actually compared to one another (I'm not aware of anyone else that has actually done this and posted about it) I elected to stay with the RedWine for the previously stated reasons.  I'm fully aware of the glowing reviews for Shindo, and they were all spot on as far as I could tell when I listened to it in my space.  As for the phono stage, it did float my boat, it sounded beautifully, but compared to my $1k Bottlehead... well, let's just I'm pretty impressed with the Bottlehead : )

As for my system... Redwine Isabella w/USB DAC, 70.2s, Devore Nines, Auditorium cabling all around, and the Shindo was able to uncover problems the Isabella tamed?  I suppose anything is possible ; )

[cfcjb]

: )

Once again, the Monbrison was a beautiful piece of equipment which I'd be more than happy to live with.  I hope I've been clear about that in my comments.  Everyone wants to know "which is better?" when such an answer simply does not exist.  But when actually compared to one another (I'm not aware of anyone else that has actually done this and posted about it) I elected to stay with the RedWine for the previously stated reasons.  I'm fully aware of the glowing reviews for Shindo, and they were all spot on as far as I could tell when I listened to it in my space.  As for the phono stage, it did float my boat, it sounded beautifully, but compared to my $1k Bottlehead... well, let's just I'm pretty impressed with the Bottlehead : )

As for my system... Redwine Isabella w/USB DAC, 70.2s, Devore Nines, Auditorium cabling all around, and the Shindo was able to uncover problems the Isabella tamed?  I suppose anything is possible ; )

Hey Texendo, your system seems very synergistic to me. You're right, it must just be personal taste.

I apologize if you thought I was stating that one was better than another, I didn't want to imply that.
I haven't compared them both together. I have only read about the Isabella. I will say that buying Shindo products in the U.S. incurs a CONSIDERABLE markup over buying one in Asia (100 - 240 Volt). So say, an Aurieges Linestage costs $3300 in the U.S., take at least $1300 off and you've got the retail price in Asia. Yes, I know, you don't live in Asia, but at least then you can do a more fair and balanced fiscal analysis of either product.


I've loved my Red Wine products and love my Shindo products. In my system ( GNSC Modded Resolution Audio Opus 21 CDP -> Shindo Aurieges Line Stage -> Red Wine Audio 70.2s -> Musical Affairs Crescendo speakers (PHY-HP 8 inch Cones and Peizzo tweeters), EVERYONE gets along.

Are you thinking of auditioning Vinnie's phono pre?

[texendo]

I wholeheartedly agree about the "120V" tax (is this the thing we pay more for in America?).

I'm always intrigued by speakers that utilize the PHY drivers.  I'd kill to hear an all Ocellia system.

I will likely eventually grab the Ginerva.  For now my vinyl setup sounds saweet and there's no extra $3k lying around, so it could be a while still.

[cfcjb]

I wholeheartedly agree about the "120V" tax (is this the thing we pay more for in America?).

I'm always intrigued by speakers that utilize the PHY drivers.  I'd kill to hear an all Ocellia system.

I'm not sure about the "tax" part of things. I presume the Shindo importers have to pay duties and shipping costs, and when you factor in all the other incidentals and their profit margin, I guess it just all adds up.
At their original Japanese price point they are amazingly well priced pieces of kit.

I was as intrigued as you were with regards PHY-HPs, so when a pair came up on sale I decided to snap them up. They are very detailed and dynamic (drums sound amazing on them) and yet really smooth and musical. I'm thinking of going in the direction of low powered class A solid state (First Watt) or low powered SET with them. They supposedly excel with these sort of amps and at 98watt/16 Ohms, so they should. That's not to say they don't sound great with my 70.2s, they do. It's just time for a change, if you know what I mean. And I've had my beloved Red Wine 70s from the very beginning, so there's been some good times spent together.

So with regards the Ginerva, I presume you'll have to wait for next year's harvest from the money tree.
It's been nice exchanging views, take care Tex.

R,
J.