Anyone try using Panasonic TSHA caps for the Power Supply?

Vinnie R. · « **on:** 23 Jan 2003, 02:25 am »

I was just curious if anyone has any experience with these in your AKSAs, or another cap that sounds better than the KGH's that come with the kit. What improves (if anything) ?

I've used the Panasonic TSHA's before in another amp and they yielded tight and punchy bass response, but they were replacing pretty crappy caps to start with

Thanks for all your opinions!

-Vinnie

PSP · « **Reply #1 on:** 23 Jan 2003, 06:24 pm »

Vinnie,
I bought my AKSA 55s before Hugh was including the caps in his kits, so I've been using Nichicon KG Gold caps. While I really like the sound of my AKSA, I've never heard it with the stock power supply caps. In his FAQ section, Hugh discusses the sonic impact of various PS caps, so I'm sure that there is room for tweaking here.

4700uf TSHA at DigiKey is $6-8 each (not too bad). Wanna try them and post your results?

Peter

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #2 on:** 23 Jan 2003, 07:56 pm »

Peter,

Digikey has two versions of them, and one of the versions is a cap that is the same size as the stock cap, so they should fit perfectly. I will order from Digikey and give them a try.

-Vinnie

AKSA · « **Reply #3 on:** 23 Jan 2003, 10:16 pm »

Hi Vinnie,

About six months back I tried some 4,700uF 63VW Kenwood caps in the 55W Nirvana AKSA. I still have them. The results, comparing to the Nichicon KMH, were this:

1. More delicacy in top end.
2. Slightly better detail in midrange.
3. Noticeable loss of bass impact and slam.

All caps have their strong and weak points, and using the correct ultrafast diodes the effects from cap to cap are less obvious. However, if the TSHAs are 30mm in diameter or less, then go right ahead, and let us know what you find. I believe it will be a variation on the Kenwood, but trending towards a better top end.

Cheers,

Hugh

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #4 on:** 23 Jan 2003, 11:58 pm »

All caps have their strong and weak points, and using the correct ultrafast diodes the effects from cap to cap are less obvious.

Hey Hugh,

In your experience of testing different caps for the Aksa 55, which have been the best (or should I say, your favorite

) caps? I know on your web page you list some, but have you found a cap that does just about everything better compared to the Nichions, or at least some things better but nothing any worse?

Many thanks,

Vinnie

AKSA · « **Reply #5 on:** 24 Jan 2003, 01:26 am »

Vinnie,

Elna Cerafines do the top end better, but lack seriously in the bass. The best all round cap I have tested, offering the most balanced sonics, has been the Nichicon.

I have not tried them, but there is an 'audiophile' quality cap from Nichicon called the KG series. I believe they might offer enhanced top end, but in keeping with their audiophile pretensions, they are sure to be much more expensive. Despite what people say, cost is extremely important in this, as in any other, business. I try to keep costs moderate at all times, even though as a purchaser at the bottom end of the SE Asia component market I enjoy sourcing economies not normally available to North Americans.

I have often found there are ways and means of working around the powerful drive in all of us to buy 'audiophile' components. These components often exploit a unique market, where people buy one or two for tweaking purposes only and the high unit cost is not so important. However, for OEMs, these bits must be viewed with a jaundiced eye. On a 55W AKSA, for example, it is quite easy to spend more money on a single capacitor than on the entire complement of semiconductors. Arguably, this is a tad unbalanced, ahem......

Cheers,

Hugh

Possum · « **Reply #6 on:** 24 Jan 2003, 05:53 am »

Hugh,

I had received some 4700 uF Nippon Chemicon capacitors in my AKSA 100W kit. How does this brand/type compare to others you've tried with regard to the same kind of top, mid, low end and other characteristics? It would be interesting to change the capacitors in the power supply to fit the kind of sound I like.

Thanks,
Greg

PSP · « **Reply #7 on:** 24 Jan 2003, 04:45 pm »

Hi Possum,
Hugh has some discussion on this topic on his FAQ page, but I think the power supply caps are an extremely tweakable area... known (from Hugh's work) to impact the sonics, and yet seperated from the amp circuit (so there's limited downside risk). There are lots of caps one could try, I'm sure that one could bypass the main caps with smaller high quality caps and get an additional effect.

The optimum cap will almost certainly depend on the rest of your system, your music, and what you listen for.

It will also likely depend on what you are using your amp for: For example, I've built a single channel 100w AKSA for use as a sub amp (driving a VMPS New Original Sub, 12" driver and a 15" passive radiator) and I'd be willing to bet substantial money that the PS caps Hugh optimized for full spectrum music will not be optimum when the spectrum is limited to 100Hz (or 50Hz) and below. I'm going to listen to it stock for a while (I'm still building the XO, a Marchand XM-9), and then begin tweaking by doubling the PS capacitance (from 4 x 4700 --> 8 x 4700) using the stock caps. After I've optimized the total capacitance, I'll try other caps (particularly if someone here posts that "Cap X gave absolutely awesome bass, but the highs were lacking"... then I might give Cap X a try.

Peter

Possum · « **Reply #8 on:** 24 Jan 2003, 05:47 pm »

PSP,

Thanks for the reply. I was hoping Hugh could offer his opinion on what differences he heard in sound between the Nippon Chemicon I received with my stock AKSA 100 kit vs. other brands/types he sent with other AKSA 100 kits and ones he's tried out. I have read the FAQ about differences that capacitors can make, and the user experience in this thread backs it up. I am looking to see if the Nippon Chemicon brand in my stock kit is right for me.

PSP · « **Reply #9 on:** 24 Jan 2003, 06:18 pm »

Hi Possum,
Agreed.. Hugh is the Grand Creator, and has an incredible ear. Bottom line, though, IMO, only you will be able to assess how it's going to sound in your system. Since the PS caps are seperate from the amp boards, it's easy to try a series of PS caps without having to do surgery (and re-bias) your amps.

Can I suggest that you go with the stock caps for a month or three, build a sizeable experience base on that (stock) sound, and then swap in some other caps... your choice at that time based on Hugh's thoughts, posts here, etc.?

Based on the sound of the stock AKSA, the Nirvana AKSA, the stock TLP, and the Nirvana TLP, I am really impressed with the choices Hugh has made to attain the incredible sonics his designs achieve. I would be inclined then, to begin with the caps chosen by Hugh, listen hard and long, and only then (young Jedi) see if you can do better (in your system, your room, your music, all the ususal caveats...)

When I finally get around to trying out different PS caps, bypass caps, etc. I promise to post my impressions here. If a bunch of us can agree on that, we will at least have a place to start when the tweaking brain tumor starts whispering "power supply caps" deep in the night

.

Peter

Possum · « **Reply #10 on:** 24 Jan 2003, 07:43 pm »

From what I've seen, there were a few different capacitor series provided with the AKSA 100W stock kit, so there are probably a few different sounds of a stock AKSA. I wonder what mine was chosen to sound like.

AKSA · « **Reply #11 on:** 24 Jan 2003, 10:58 pm »

Hi Greg,

Nah, all the power caps for the AKSA kitsets are identical. There is no deviation whatever from the stock Nichicon KMH series. All are identical, and correspondingly, there are no sonic differences.

In fact, there are no sonic differences from AKSA to AKSA as long as the original kit components are used. The sonic determinants are known, well understood, and invariant. Any changes to kitsets with inevitable evolution (for example Version 1.6 to 2) are sonically identical. These two versions sound just the same to me, I can promise you!

I talk about power supply caps on the website, Greg. I won't add to that here. Right now it's 35C, will soon be 42C, and I don't want to spend too much time at the keyboard!

Cheers,

Hugh

mb · « **Reply #12 on:** 25 Jan 2003, 12:06 am »

Quote from: AKSA

Hi Greg,

Nah, all the power caps for the AKSA kitsets are identical. There is no deviation whatever from the stock Nichicon KMH series. All are identical, and correspondingly, there are no sonic differences.

Hi Hugh,

There is some confusion here. I believe the caps you send are Nippon Chemi-Con (NCC), and not Nichicon. Similar sounding, but difference companies, from what I gather.

Regards,
mb

AKSA · « **Reply #13 on:** 25 Jan 2003, 02:06 am »

Hi Mervin, Greg,

Absolutely correct! My mistake....... Here's the data, I'd not realized. This company makes the AKSA power caps:
Nippon Chemi-Con Corporation
Established : 8 August, 1931

Address: 167-1, Higashi-Ome, 1-chome, Ome, Tokyo 198-8501, Japan

Home Page: http://www.chemi-con.co.jp/english/new/NewPage_e.html

Major Products Conductive polymer electrolytic capacitors, Aluminum electrolytic capacitors, Solid electrolytic capacitors with organic semiconductor, Tantalum electrolytic capacitors, Multilayer ceramic capacitors, Film capacitors, Metal oxide varistors, Amorphous choke coils
Corporate Information Capital : 15,751,000,000yen (As of March, 2002)

Sales : 71,212,000,000yen (March, 2002 Business term ends)

Number of employees : 1,716 (As of March, 2002)

And for Nichicon, the manufacturer of the KG series audiophile caps people are saying are very good:

NICHICON CORPORATION
Established August 1, 1950

Capital Stock 14,286 million yen (As of March 31, 2002)

Product Lines Various kinds of capacitors
Hybrid ICs
Positive thermistors
Switching power supplies
Capacitor applied system and equipment

Net Sales 105,891 million yen (As of March 31, 2002 Consolidated)
100,788 million yen (As of March 31, 2002 Non-Consolidated)

Employees 1,758 (As of March 31, 2002)

I had thought these were one and the same.

The Nippon Chemi-Con KMH series has been the best all round cap I have used. Its dimensions are 30mm diameter, 50mm height. They are rated at 105C, 2000 hours. In practice, at much lower temperatures, they will likely last about 15 years.

Thanks for the correction, Mervin.

Cheers,

Hugh

Possum · « **Reply #14 on:** 25 Jan 2003, 05:37 pm »

Hugh,

Thanks for the reply. I'll stick to the stock sound for now since it is so highly praised. I have changed the C8/C9 charge suckout capacitors to Wima metallized polypropylenes, which I guess would not make the AKSA stock anymore... but anyway, I'll stay with the Nippon Chemicons for now.

Thanks,
Greg

AKSA · « **Reply #15 on:** 27 Jan 2003, 01:52 am »

Greg,

The Wima metallized pp caps are not good in that application (I have tried them); try the foil types instead.

This is a very sensitive position in the circuit.

Cheers,

Hugh

Regis B · « **Reply #16 on:** 27 Jan 2003, 03:32 am »

Hi Greg,
I know that Hugh is going to kill me for this

If you are playing with Capacitor change C3 with a BlackGate FK series It does make a difference .

For C8-C9 I suggest Teflon or Polystyrene.

Regis

Possum · « **Reply #17 on:** 27 Jan 2003, 04:49 am »

Would the metallized polypropelene Wima still be an improvement over the stock green disc (ceramic?) capacitors? As long as it's an improvement, I'll upgrade to maybe an expensive Auricap or Hovland Musicap a bit later on after I put the amp in the chassis.

Thanks,
Greg

AKSA · « **Reply #18 on:** 27 Jan 2003, 05:17 am »

Hi Greg,

No. The green disc ceramic, in this application, is superior to the Wima MKP.

Don't ask me why, it just is!

You could always buy the Nirvana upgrade, and avoid going through all this experimentation........ just a thought........

Cheers,

Hugh