[billmcc]

I thought I would start a thread of my listening impressions of my new STs. Below is a copy of a post I made over at AVS. To say I am happy with my STs and SongCenter would be a huge understatement . I'm sure I will be adding to this thread as I log more time listening to the STs.

Well I had a little time today with the house to myself so I had to chose between going outside on a beautiful day to get some sun or listen to the SongTowers. I went to the beach yesterday so it was an easy choice .

I wanted to try a little repositioning as I have not had a chance to try different levels of toe in and toe out. The STs are about 6' apart and about 12" off my front wall. The distance apart or off the front wall is not optimum but that is what my room (livingroom/HT/Audio space ) dictates. I sit about 7' away dead center which is real nice as I am not off center in the least.

I have had the STs set up with an average amount of toe in maybe to the point where they were pointed just outside each side of my chair. So I thought I would try less toe in and set the STs to about halfway between square to the front wall and the toe in I had been using. I put in one of my favorite Mark Knopfler CDs and cranked it up .

I found out pretty quickly that the vocals were not focused dead center where they should. The soundstage almost seemed to shrink as well as the sound almost seemed to stop just inside the STs and did not extend outside of them. I then tried more toe in than I had to start with then pushed play. With the toe in set so that it might be aimed at each shoulder the vocals were dead center with out seeming like they were stretched. The soundstage was now extending out past the STs unlike when I had much less toe in.

So now with that out of the way it was time to get serious and crank the volume . I finished listening to Mark Knopflers Ragpickers Dream which just sounded incredible. I then put in one of my favorite albums/CDs of all time Jeff Beck's Blow By Blow. I have an enhanced Super Bit version that sounds excellent. This album was produced by George Martin at his Air Studios and it is an incredible sounding CD. I played Cause We've Ended As Lovers and Diamond Dust two of my favorite tracks.

I have to say I cranked the volume with both of these tracks more so than I have in a real long time . What I got in return was just incredible sound quality that was completely free of any distortion, pinpoint imaging and not a hint of brightness. The weight of the music was also very impressive with the bass, kick drums and even the weight of the string arrangements right there. On Diamond Dust the keyboards at time take on an almost surround type of quality that the STs really expand on. I have listened to this album/CD quite often since its release in 1975 and I can say without a doubt this is the best it has ever sounded to me .

I have to mention that I was using my sub (Rythmik F12SE) during this listening session as I have yet to run the STs full range. I used my Parasound 2100 with the LP set at 80Hz and my amp is a Boston Acoustics A7200 (Sherwood Newcastle A965 clone) which is conservatively rated a 120wpc. I did not even come close to pushing the STs or the A7200 and the volume was I would say easily at reference level or higher .

With this limited listening session today I am finding that I am extremely happy I bought the STs and SongCenter. As much as the Sierra-1s are an outstanding speaker the STs are just a cut above in overall SQ IMO. It is even more evident when pushed to higher volumes today as the STs have the distinct advantage. Although I do not get a chance often to crank the volume as I did today it is nice that the capability is there for when I want to .

Bill

[cacophony777]

Thanks for posting your impressions Bill.   

I haven't experimented with aggressive toe-in, mainly because I'm concerned about hurting off axis performance, but I'd be interested in thoughts on this trade off. I currently just have a very subtle toe-in, but haven't noticed any issues with sound stage or imaging.

[billmcc]

Thanks for posting your impressions Bill.   

I haven't experimented with aggressive toe-in, mainly because I'm concerned about hurting off axis performance, but I'd be interested in thoughts on this trade off. I currently just have a very subtle toe-in, but haven't noticed any issues with sound stage or imaging.

cacophony,

My pleasure . I guess toe in/out is kind of a personal preference decision but in my case it is somewhat room dependent. I have a couch fairly close to my L speaker and my room is open on the right side. I wonder with personal preferences aside if room type/configuration plays a factor in toe in/out as far as getting the best possible SQ?

I found an article from SoundStage on how they test loudspeakers. I just looked at it quickly but it looks interesting and something I should read to be a little more informed.

http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/test_loudspeakers.htm

Bill

[adydula]

Hello,

I played with all kinds of toe-in when I got mine last year. I have settled on toe-in so the speaker axis cross just behind my head where my listening seat is.

Great imaging and great soundstage.

I just finished an audio aurgasm session with Walter Hyatt's, Unfinished Business, Nina Nastasia's Dogs and Quincy's Also Called Mary!!

Jolly Gee the magic the SongTowers can reproduce is really amazing, the new amp amd pre amp add so much to the sonic picture..but it takes a great transducer to be able to allow it out as well and the SongTowers are very special in that regard.

All the best
Alex
 

[Nuance]

Hello,

I played with all kinds of toe-in when I got mine last year. I have settled on toe-in so the speaker axis cross just behind my head where my listening seat is.

Great imaging and great soundstage.

Same here; sounds great set up that way in my room.  To each their own, though, of course. 

Bill,

That was a fantastic write-up.  I just love reading this stuff!  Keep up the good work, and enjoy my friend.

[mchuckp]

I toe in pretty far.  I've tried it many ways and personally like the imaging with a heavy toe in.  My sweet spot is very small and moving a foot to the left or right, it is definitely off.  Still sounds amazing no matter where I sit in terms of clarity but if you want true imagining you gotta get in THE SPOT.  This works okay for me because I don't have guests too often who care about audio and if I do, I give them the sweet spot.  My wife could care less so that isn't a concern.

[adydula]

I listened to one of my many demo cds and listened to one of the cuts from Patricia Barbers, Live - A Fortnight In France. The cut was Norwegian Wood.

I mention this because of the toe-in discussion in this thread. The imaging that happens in this song is nothing less than phenonmenal. Instruments pop in and out in different places and its nothing less than fantastic.

The Ultravalve has had alot with this imaging capability. I have listened to this cd many times and its good. Its now REALLY GREAT. The soundstage and imaging are 11 out of 10.
You can use this cut as a imaging test. The soundstage in this song is excellent...If you do not get good imaging from this track then your setup is off. This cut has many degrees of tonality and those fine precussion sounds that are lost in lesser setups, When I herad this cut with the new amp and preamp, I stopped and was saying to myself how can this be soooo good. The setup is still a modest one by world standards, but golly gee its really somthing else.

If you dont have this cd its worth the purchase. If you have a pair of SongTowers and an Ultravalve amp you will not stop smiling!!

Alex
 
 

[billmcc]

I wanted to add this post here at AC that I made over at AVS in the Oppo BDP-83SE and the Salk thread. I have had my SongTowers for about a month and have enjoyed them very much. With the addition of the STs to my system and now the SE the SQ is what I have been looking to attain for some time . Of course the STs are the biggest part of this upgrade but the SE compliments them very well. To say I am happy with the STs would be a serious understatement

I have finally been able to spend some serious time listening to the SE. I have been left home alone for several days while to family is off camping for the annual Mothers and childrens GTG. As much as I miss them the time to crank the tunes and kick back is very nice .

I have been at it for about six hours and I'm not ready to stop . I have been listening to the 2 CH outputs of the SE to my Parasound 2100 then onto my Boston Acoustics A7200 amp then on to a pair Salk SongTowers. I have had the STs for about a month but this is the best chance I have had to do some serious listening.

I have listened to:

Dire Straits: Brothers In Arms 20th Anniversary edition. This is easily the best this incredibly sounding disc has ever sounded to me.

Mark Knopfler: Get Lucky. Mark's latest and an excellent sounding CD.

Pink Floyd: Dark Side Of The Moon (SACD 2CH). I have been listening to this album/CD for over 35 years and this is the best I have heard from this disc as well.

Dire Straits: Love Over Gold (remastered). Awesome!

Nils Lofgren: Cry Tough. I was very happy when this great album was released on CD.

Cassandra Wilson: Traveling Miles. I am not very familiar with her music but the CD has some very nice tunes and sounds excellent.

I will be moving onto some Neil Young, Jeff Beck, David Gilmour, Steely Dan, Donald Fagen and what ever else is within reach:).

I can say without a doubt I am very happy with the SQ of the 2 CH outputs of the SE. The combination of the SE with the SongTowers and the rest of my system is just incredible IMO. The seperation of instruments, soundstage and imaging are well worth the money spent on both the SE and the STs. The other quality of the SE is its almost analog type of SQ. I have had a few tube preamps and the SQ of the SE has that quality in a way. I guess by that I mean the SQ is not harsh or digital sounding as some CD players are. If anyone is considering the SE and has a fairly decent system then I would highly recommend giving it a demo.

I have yet to listen to many M/C SACD/DVD-As as I do not have many or is my room setup well for M/C music listening. But after I run the AIX setup disc I will try a few to see how the analog M/C outputs sound. Then of course there is the video portion which I will have to squeeze in some Blurays just waiting to be watched;). Well I have to go put in Neil Young's Live At Massey Hall disc. I don't think I will get much sleep over the next few days .

Bill

[Sonix]

Bill,

Thank you so much for sharing all your impressions on your new STs and SE.
You are giving me the goosebumps.

Since I still have my Sierra-1s, I was just curious if you miss yours?

Regards,
Ken

[adydula]

billmcc,

Try this with your BD83SE:

Run the 2 L/R's from the multichannel outputs to your preamp and then u can compare the ESS dacs used in the 2 ch part with the ESS dacs used in the multichannel analog outs..

Let me know what u think?

Alex

[Nuance]

Great write-up, Bill; it brought a big 'ol smile to my face.  I am so delighted you're loving the ST's!