mixing capacitor types

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Jeff G

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mixing capacitor types
« on: 20 Apr 2011, 11:45 am »
I am building a speaker with a total of four caps. Three of the values are pretty big (15uf,16uf and 22uf). There is also a 6.2uf on the tweeter. The 15uf is the only cap on the woofer.


Not trying to start a flame war regarding cap choices. My best guess is that there is a subtle difference. For this question, please assume that is true. i will have pretty decent electronics in front of the speakers at some point (also building a ClassD amp and hoping to do a Dodd or Nelson buffer later)

I will listen to these a while and don't mind spending a bit extra on nicer caps (ie Sonicaps or ClarityCap SA) but the values make the xover pretty expensive.

I was thinking about using a mixture of Solens and Sonicaps for some of the values (ie a 15 uf Solen and a 1uf Sonicap Gen I for the 16uf). This would cost $13 versus $25 for a Sonicap. I have some bypass Gen II that I could add to this. I could also just use a Solen (or other cheaper brand with a Gen II bypass).

Any thoughts on what the sonic character of the combination might be?

brother love

Re: mixing capacitor types
« Reply #1 on: 20 Apr 2011, 01:28 pm »
Jon L did a pretty exhaustive capacitor comparison that may help. 

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=54218.0

Re: Sonicaps Gen I & II's/ Platinums ... the GR Reasearch forum has several threads referencing findings on switching out various capacitors for given speakers, etc.. 

Sonic Craft describes the personality of the Sonicaps well:  http://www.soniccraft.com/index.htm

This capacitor shoot-out that has reference to Solen capacitors:

http://www.vhaudio.com/21capacitorshootout.pdf

So much depends on the speakers cabinets/ drivers, your electronics, your room, AND your personal tastes.

Nick77

Re: mixing capacitor types
« Reply #2 on: 20 Apr 2011, 01:46 pm »
Danny often uses (and stocks) the Erse caps for large bass circuit caps.

rollo

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Re: mixing capacitor types
« Reply #3 on: 20 Apr 2011, 02:01 pm »
  High values they are, which limits your choices money wise. For bass I like Dayton caps. Inexpensive and excell in bass reproduction. Solens are VG as well. There are better.
  Humblehifi did a cap shootout for speaker crossovers. Very helpfull in deciding what flavor of cap you desire.
  If it were me it would be Mundorf North Creek or Goertz [ copper] inductors, Deuland resistors, Mundorf caps for the bass, Jensen PIO for midrange and Deuland " Alexander" PIO for tweeter. All Deuland internal wiring. Have fun trying.


charles

brother love

Re: mixing capacitor types
« Reply #4 on: 20 Apr 2011, 02:24 pm »
  "...  Humblehifi did a cap shootout for speaker crossovers. Very helpfull in deciding what flavor of cap you desire. "
 

Forgot about that one, it is a good reference as well:  http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

emac also did a good review on capacitors in his speaker crossovers on  tweak city audio (chase home theater now): 

 http://www.chasehometheater.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1895

nickd

Re: mixing capacitor types
« Reply #5 on: 20 Apr 2011, 02:48 pm »
Charles, you have good taste, but man oh man those Deuland parts are expensive :o

However, if you are building loudspeakers to keep for a long time consider those parts as a good investment. you can spend money up stream all day long but it won't help overcome a veil from scond class parts in the crossover.

rollo

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Re: mixing capacitor types
« Reply #6 on: 20 Apr 2011, 03:11 pm »
Charles, you have good taste, but man oh man those Deuland parts are expensive :o

However, if you are building loudspeakers to keep for a long time consider those parts as a good investment. you can spend money up stream all day long but it won't help overcome a veil from scond class parts in the crossover.

  The Deulands in my experience are worth every penny spent. The cast caps are insanely priced but man o man do they deliver in spades. Deulands new " Alexander PIO cap are reasonable. I'm a big topend sort of guy. The Deulands have no, hot spots, hype nothing and present cymbals and female vocals like no cap we have tried. if one was to spend anywhere the tweeter coupling cap would be the place .


charles

jtwrace

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Re: mixing capacitor types
« Reply #7 on: 20 Apr 2011, 03:13 pm »
  The Deulands in my experience are worth every penny spent. The cast caps are insanely priced but man o man do they deliver in spades. Deulands new " Alexander PIO cap are reasonable. I'm a big topend sort of guy. The Deulands have no, hot spots, hype nothing and present cymbals and female vocals like no cap we have tried. if one was to spend anywhere the tweeter coupling cap would be the place .


charles

I'm glad you're a Dueland fan...I just got some VSF's to try.

rollo

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Re: mixing capacitor types
« Reply #8 on: 20 Apr 2011, 03:58 pm »
I'm glad you're a Dueland fan...I just got some VSF's to try.

  Hope they work out for you. usually I have a problem saying something is best as oppossed to different however in this case it fits.  :thumb: Enjoy.


charles

cujobob

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Re: mixing capacitor types
« Reply #9 on: 20 Apr 2011, 04:03 pm »
The caps on the tweeter make the biggest difference AFAIK.  Spend your money there.  There are quite a few lower budget choices for the large values.  I wouldn't worry too much about those, personally.  Jantzens, Solens, whatever..

For my Abbeys, I have Solens everywhere except for high frequencies...where I put in Sonicaps (Soon to be replaced by Z-Silver from Jantzen when I get around to it).

corndog71

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Re: mixing capacitor types
« Reply #10 on: 20 Apr 2011, 06:04 pm »
I assume you're building one of Danny's designs since you're posting this here. 

I strongly recommend sticking to sonicaps for the tweeter circuit. 

The caps that run parallel to the driver can be lower quality without too much of a hit on the sound.  Solens or Erse would be fine.

If you're using a metal tweeter then you may want to try Clarity Cap ESA.  They have great resolution but have a darkness to their character in the upper frequencies that I think would complement a brighter sounding tweeter.  They did not go well with the AV123 Encore tweeters at all.

Jeff G

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Re: mixing capacitor types
« Reply #11 on: 20 Apr 2011, 08:46 pm »
Thanks for your feedback guys. I'll check out the sites you referenced later tonight. I'll price out a few options using a combination of caps, etc.  Right now, I'm leaning toward Solens for the cheapies and Sonicap for the smaller values.

Danny Richie

Re: mixing capacitor types
« Reply #12 on: 21 Apr 2011, 03:03 am »
I too have had those same questions.

On the low price side I have tried all of the basics, Solen, Axon, Erse, and even the Dayton. I didn't care too much for the Dayton's and questioned the consistency. The Erse sounded much like the Solen's but had much closer tolerances.

So I went with the Erse caps. I then by-pass them with a .1uF Gen.2 Sonicap (200 VDC) and get really good results. This is the basic combo used with my kits.

On the high side I have also test and listened to a ton of caps. Some, like Clarity Caps and Auricap even sent me free samples hoping that I would pic up the line. But none of them were as clean and un-coloring of the sound like the Sonicaps and the Sonicaps were not too expensive either. I am sticking with them for now.

Using them at least in the tweeter circuit is highly recommended. But you will also be surprised just how much difference is made with them in the mid-range circuit as well.

For a shunt cap in a woofer circuit where a high value is needed, I still use an Erse cap with a Gen.2 Sonicap by-pass.

To take it up a notch I often by-pass with a Sonicap Platinum. The Deulands might be a good choice to use as well. The Platinum's are not made in big values and I don't think the Deulands are either. But in electronics where a small value is needed, they are great!

I am not a big fan of the paper and oil caps because of the coloration that they add, but in some applications a little taming can be needed and these can be a good choice for some applications.

rollo

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Re: mixing capacitor types
« Reply #13 on: 21 Apr 2011, 02:58 pm »
  Only have used PIO Jensen with V-cap teflon in first position. Berry berry nice. However this was not for any of Danny's speaker kits. So listen to Danny.


charles

Danny Richie

Re: mixing capacitor types
« Reply #14 on: 21 Apr 2011, 04:14 pm »
Okay guys, who locked this thread, and why? Did I miss something?

Danny Richie

Re: mixing capacitor types
« Reply #15 on: 23 Apr 2011, 07:14 pm »
Well no one responded as to why this thread was locked. I see no reason that it would be locked either. So I am unlocking it.

If whatever facilitator that locked it would like to share something with me that I don't know then feel free.