[Saturn94]

I have a couple questions for the HT2-TL owners here relating to defraction issues and the MTM design.

I'm not much of a fan of exposed drivers so would be using the speaker grill.  I know the frame of the grill will produce some defraction artifacts, but are they audible?  Can owners here please comment on the audible differences between grill on and off?

Also, reading about MTM designs, I know when you move off axis vertically there are issues relating to being at different distances from the 2 midranges.  For serious listening I don't think this will be an issue for me since my head would be at tweeter level.  However, when watching movies, or listening to music while reading, I'm likely to be laying on the couch or reclining, in which case my head would be below tweeter level (but I still want good sound).  For reference the distance from speaker to seating position will be 7.5ft-8ft depending on where I'm seated on the couch.

With an MTM design, would there be much SQ degradation in my situation? Would I be better off with a MT or WMT design?

Thanks.

[coke]

I haven't spent much time with the grills on, so I can't answer your first question.  The grills do seem to have an impact on off axis response (left to right), but i can't say for certain.  I actually think my speakers look better with the grills on, but in my mind I believe the grills must have a negative impact on the sound, which it makes it difficult to relax and enjoy the music.

I had a temporary setup where I had a queen size matress on the floor in front of my couch.  I actually really enjoyed listening to music from that location with my head propped up against the front of the couch.  I was probably a couple feet below the level of the tweeter.  The sound was still very good, but the highs weren't quite as present.  On some music, I thought it actually sounded better, as it gave a more relaxed/less bright sound, but for "critical listening", I prefer to be at tweeter level.

[Saturn94]

.....I had a temporary setup where I had a queen size matress on the floor in front of my couch.  I actually really enjoyed listening to music from that location with my head propped up against the front of the couch.  I was probably a couple feet below the level of the tweeter.  The sound was still very good, but the highs weren't quite as present.  On some music, I thought it actually sounded better, as it gave a more relaxed/less bright sound, but for "critical listening", I prefer to be at tweeter level.

How far away from the HT2-TLs were you in this situation?

Thanks for the post.

[coke]

I'd estimate 6'. 

[Saturn94]

I'd estimate 6'.

Great.  Sounds like in my situation I would still be OK with an MTM design.

[coke]

Yeah, I wouldn't worry about it.  The sound does change, but it's not that drastic. 

You could also remove the spikes from your speakers to lower them.  Can't remember if the plinth is optional but that could lower them even more.

[Saturn94]

Any other owners?

[OgOgilby]

For movies you should consider getting a matching center channel speaker. I sit 8 feet from our HT2-TL's and often lay down while watching movies (with the grills on) and the speakers still sound great, but we have the HT2 sealed center.

When I listen to 2 channel music I remove the grills (they are attached by magnets so they are very easy to pop on and off).

[mathgeek97]

For music, the grills come off.  The difference isn't much, but it's noticeable.
For tv/movies, grills stay on, and I'm often not in the sweet spot.  I do just fine with my 2.0 setup, but if you've got the electronics and the money, going 3 or 5-channel couldn't hurt.

I'm sitting 8-10' away on my couch.

MTM designs are just fine.  Dennis care to comment on MTM vs MT?

[mark funk]

Grills are off all the time.




                                                                                       

[MichiganMike]

I have SongTowers rather than the HT2-TL, but the design is similar.  My experience is that in critical listening the speakers sound significantly better (more open, better soundstage) with grills off.  When used for background music at a lower level, grills on is fine.  My wife prefers the looks with the grills on, so the grills generally only come off when I am listening alone.   

[davidrs]

defraction issues and the MTM design.


With an MTM design, would there be much SQ degradation in my situation? Would I be better off with a MT or WMT design?

Here is a link from audioholics that may help. Summary on page two. Additional links at the end of each page, which may also be helpful.

http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/center-channel-speaker

- David.

[Saturn94]

For movies you should consider getting a matching center channel speaker. I sit 8 feet from our HT2-TL's and often lay down while watching movies (with the grills on) and the speakers still sound great, but we have the HT2 sealed center.

When I listen to 2 channel music I remove the grills (they are attached by magnets so they are very easy to pop on and off).

Unfortunately, a matching center is not in the budget at this time.  I'm not too concerned about it right now.  A SongTower owner I visited was using an NHT center and surrounds and they worked quite well for movies.  I also am using an NHT center and surround and would expect them to be fine for movies.  For music I don't use the center channel and occasionally use the surrounds depending on what's playing.  So I believe I will be fine until I'm ready to refine the speaker setup for 5.1 content.

Of course when the time comes then I will have questions about how well MTM designs work in center channels since the driver alignment is horizontal which can cause issues with off axis listening.  Years ago when shopping for a center channel, I could not find a single MTM design I liked.  I ended up getting a 3 way design that had the midrange and tweeter aligned vertically.  Voices sound clearer to me on the 3 way that I chose than any of the MTM center channels I auditioned in my home (about 4 or 5 models total).

I greatly appreciate everyone's responses.

[Saturn94]

Here is a link from audioholics that may help. Summary on page two. Additional links at the end of each page, which may also be helpful.

http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/center-channel-speaker

- David.

Thanks for the link.  It was an interesting read.

This quote from the article probably explains why I had better results using a 3 way W(T/M)W design over a MTM design:

Consider W(T/M)W design if your listening window exceeds the +/- 30 degree and you are height constrained to not use identically matched speakers to your mains.

This describes my situation.  Some seats are about 45 degrees off axis and height restrictions do not allow me to use identical speakers across the front.

[floresjc]

I'm an HT2-TL owner. In my old house, my HT2-TL's were my "music" speakers just attached to a squeezebox, however in this home they are used for 2channel listening as well as the only speakers attached to my tv system.

I have them placed 66" apart center to center, basically just outside the width of my 50" plasma tv. I leave the grills on them because my wife prefers the look and I don't want to have to store grills anywhere. I find the difference to be zilch on movie/game/tv material and for general music listening (like say when cleaning). If I want to sit there and do critical listening, I'll take the grills off for the session for the best available sound. There's a small difference, but for anything other than just staring intently at the speakers and listening hard, not a huge enormous difference.

My couch and recliner are 11-12ft from the TV and the end seats on the couch recline. So basically anyone who watches on this system is laying around and keeping tweeter height in line with the ears is a complete afterthought. The width of my seating area is 11 ft. No one has a bad seat and the HT2-TL's sound great.

I wouldn't worry about it so much. 

[Saturn94]

I'm an HT2-TL owner. In my old house, my HT2-TL's were my "music" speakers just attached to a squeezebox, however in this home they are used for 2channel listening as well as the only speakers attached to my tv system.

I have them placed 66" apart center to center, basically just outside the width of my 50" plasma tv. I leave the grills on them because my wife prefers the look and I don't want to have to store grills anywhere. I find the difference to be zilch on movie/game/tv material and for general music listening (like say when cleaning). If I want to sit there and do critical listening, I'll take the grills off for the session for the best available sound. There's a small difference, but for anything other than just staring intently at the speakers and listening hard, not a huge enormous difference.

My couch and recliner are 11-12ft from the TV and the end seats on the couch recline. So basically anyone who watches on this system is laying around and keeping tweeter height in line with the ears is a complete afterthought. The width of my seating area is 11 ft. No one has a bad seat and the HT2-TL's sound great.

I wouldn't worry about it so much.

Thanks for the response.  This is helpful.  Most of my listening isn't in the prime listening/seating position;  I'm either moving around doing something else or reclining reading/watching a movie or something like that.  It's good to know they still sound great in such situations.  Of course there are also times when I like to turn the lights down, sit in the prime position, and get lost in the music.  I'm hoping what ever speaker I choose will let me forget about the speakers and just enjoy the music.

After 11 months searching, I'm hoping I'm near the end of my speaker search.

[floresjc]

To be quite honest with you, my wife uses the system more than I do. I watch football on it, and play a little Xbox, but she loves to turn on the music while she cleans house.

I'll come home from work and she has those things cranked up, and she can be in the kitchen (next room over) and hear it just fine.

I also have some SongTowers up in my office that sound great as well. If you can swing it, the HT2-TL doesn't disappoint. The only speaker I'd want to replace it with is the Soundscapes, but I'm many moons from that.

[floresjc]

I think the great thing about Salk speakers (and AVA electronics that I use) is there is something there for everyone. If you want to sit around and geek out about specs and get real critical in your listening, you can certainly do that and be confident that what you own is blowing away 98% of whats available on the market.

But they just flat out sound good and boogie. So if you are just going about your daily life, they are just so much fun, no geeking required.